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Heroes Community > Tournament of Honor > Thread: INTERIM POST B - Clans
Thread: INTERIM POST B - Clans [ This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 (4) 5 ]
Vesuvius
Vesuvius

Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
posted March 02, 2004 02:02 PM

If you cant open a clan, then join one foos

From the Rules page of new clans:

The Ultimate Clan

In the end, there will be one clan that dominates all, which ends the tournament.  The clan members involved will be awarded the Ultimate Clan Glyph, which stays on their record permanently, carrying through to Heroes 5.  

(large prestige & point value)

What is the Point of Clan Prestige? Fame, fortune & protection

Besides putting you on the right rank in the Clan Rankings Page, you gain 2 points in the main ToH ranking for every 1 point of clan prestige you gain.  All clan members recieve a clan membership icon for the rankings page.  Clans may switch to another philosophy at any time, but their prestige points get halved.  

Protection can be applied using prestige points:

If a clan power is being used against your clan, you can apply 20 prestige points to neutralize it.   It is very expensive in prestige, but possibly useful in critical cases.


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Vesuvius
Vesuvius

Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
posted March 02, 2004 02:27 PM
Edited By: vesuvius on 7 Mar 2004

Clan Upgrades list

The following are the clan upgrades from level 1 to level 4, but none of it is 'fixed' just yet.  Feel free to comment on 'balance issues'.  Notice these upgrades are not too strong, neither are land artifacts.  The clan powers, however, do have a little more 'punch' to them.

Now REVISED on March 7, 2004:

Angelic
Heroes III
Level 1: 10 archers or pikemen
Level 2: 10 griffins
Level 3: 8 swordsmen or monks
Level 4: 1 angel
Heroes IV
Level 1: 25 squires or 20 crossbowmen
Level 2: 25 pikemen or ballista
Level 3: 5 crusaders or 6 monks
Level 4: 1 angel or 2 champions

Barbarian
Heroes III
Level 1: 10 goblins or wolfriders
Level 2: 8 ogres
Level 3: 5 rocs or cyclopes
Level 4: 1 behemoth
Heroes IV
Level 1: 15 bezerkers
Level 2: 20 nomads
Level 3: 4 cyclopes
Level 4: 1 behemoth

Chaotic
Heroes III
Level 1: 15 troglodytes
Level 2: 10 beholders or medusae
Level 3: 6 manticores or minotaurs
Level 4: 1 red dragon
Heroes IV
Level 1: 20 orcs
Level 2: 16 medusae or minotaurs
Level 3: 5 efreets or nightmares
Level 4: 1 hydra

Demonic
Heroes III
Level 1: 15 imps
Level 2: 10 gogs or hell hounds
Level 3: 7 pit fiends or 4 efreet
Level 4: 1 devil
Heroes IV
Level 1: 30 imps
Level 2: 20 cerberi
Level 3: 4 venom spawns
Level 4: 1 devil

Military
Heroes III
Level 1: 15 gnolls or lizardmen
Level 2: 12 serpent flies
Level 3: 7 gorgorns or wyverns
Level 4: 1 chaos hydra
Heroes IV
Level 1: 15 centaurs
Level 2: 18 harpies
Level 3: 6 ogres
Level 4: 1 thunderbird

Naturist
Heroes III
Level 1: 10 centaurs
Level 2: 8 pegasi
Level 3: 6 unicorns
Level 4: 1 green dragon
Heroes IV
Level 1: 30 wolves or sprites
Level 2: 16 elves or white tigers
Level 3: 5 griffins or unicorns
Level 4: 1 phoenix or fairie dragon

Necroma
Heroes III
Level 1: 10 skeletons or walking dead
Level 2: 12 wights
Level 3: 6 vampires or lichs
Level 4: 1 bone dragon
Heroes IV
Level 1: 30 skeletons
Level 2: 20 ghosts
Level 3: 3 vampires
Level 4: 1 bone dragon

Rogue
Heroes III & Heroes IV
Level 1: Neutralize enemy level 1 upgrade
Level 2: Neutralize enemy level 2 upgrade
Level 3: Neutralize enemy level 3 upgrade
Level 4: Neutralize enemy level 4 upgrade

Scholar
Heroes III
Level 1: 15 gremlins
Level 2: 10 stone golems or magi
Level 3: 7 genies or 4 naga
Level 4: 1 giant
Heroes IV
Level 1: 28 halflings or dwarves
Level 2: 15 gold golems or 18 magi
Level 3: 5 genies or nagas
Level 4: 1 dragon golem or titan
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Vesuvius
Vesuvius

Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
posted March 02, 2004 02:36 PM
Edited By: vesuvius on 7 Mar 2004

Clan Powers

Now REVISED on March 7, 2004:

Angelic: Ressurection
A clan member is 'Resurrected', that is the power can be used to have a losing clan member come back from the dead and fight a second time in the clan war.

Barbarian: Gods of War
A blessing from the Gods of War allows an experience bonus to the heroes of a clanmember.  8000xp in way of experience liths (8) are placed near starting town (H3).  4000xp in way of experience liths (4) are placed near starting town (H4).

Chaotic: Dragos
The strong alignment & affinity to Dragons for this philosophy grants the strongest clans the Black Dragon, which automatically joins in front of the players' town.

Demonic: Hellfear
Creatures cannot be recruited from hometown for 7 days.

Military: Call to War
300 units of choice level 1 creatures stand by to join near hometown.

Naturist: Natural Arts
H3: Ring of Life, Ring of Vitality, Everflowing Crystal Cloak and Pendant of Life found near town.
H4: The Scarab of Summoning and Breastplate of Life found near town along with 5 potions of life.

Necroma: Heartworm Plague
All enemy heroes in towns fall sick with heartworm.  No heroes can be recruited from enemies' town taverns (or taverns near their town) for the first 4 days of the game.

Rogue:  
Choice1: Banditry
Any enemy clan ranked higher in prestige can have 8 of their prestige points stolen.  Enemy clan may choose to force them to war then.
Choice2:  Theivery
Any enemy clan ranked higher in prestige can have one of their artifacts stolen.  Enemy clan may choose to force them to war then

Scholar:  Master of Spells
H3: Hometown has level one through level four towers prebuilt
H4: Hometown has level one through level five spell towers prebuilt.
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Vesuvius
Vesuvius

Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
posted March 07, 2004 12:43 AM

Discussion cleared for next revision

Lets continue tweaking the above further.

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the_teacher
the_teacher


Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
posted March 07, 2004 04:46 AM

POWERS


---------
Demonic: Hellfear
Creatures cannot be recruited from hometown for 7 days
---------

--sounds a bit ambiguu. does it apply to both sides? if not,and it's a restriction for enemy only, is worse than that plague in its initial form.

---------
Naturist: Natural Arts
H3: Ring of Life, Ring of Vitality, Everflowing Crystal Cloak and Pendant of Life found near town.
H4: The Scarab of Summoning and Breastplate of Life found near town along with 5 potions of life.
---------


--scarab is a relic, armor is a major, i think it's an automatic win, besides the fact nature is the fastest town.
i have no suggestion here.

---------
Chaotic: Dragos
The strong alignment & affinity to Dragons for this philosophy grants the strongest clans the Black Dragon, which automatically joins in front of the players' town.
---------

-i know my suggestion will be more than a tweaking,but i just wanted to let it go : instead of a blackie from start i'd suggest to have a dragon's dwell next to town, flagged.
this way , you can have acces to that dragon, but with some cost, which everyone will be glad to pay in order to rule on the adventure map. kinda fair comparing to that one who gets 300 level 1 from the beginning.
it 's a bit less from the start ,but it will prove to recover that minus in an advanced game, so i call those 2 variants even.




CLAN UPGRADES


I will agree with any of your decision , just to mention one thing : 1 thunder is not equal with other bonuses, no matter which one.  could be 2 for a fair balance




have a nice day


P.S.and i think, is better to keep those posts that involved suggestions, would be good to have them for the reference and evolution to the final version, which can be posted separately with caps .
people who didnt read the previous posts could make suggestions that were already formulated, and we will go backwards with explanations why's not good this way or that way, instead of advancing

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xx1
xx1


Adventuring Hero
posted March 07, 2004 08:50 AM


Clan Upgrades are mostly Ok, except some exceptions. From my point of view, i would prefer additional gems and money instead of a giant, if i have to play in a tower-clan. however, i never would do it

Clan Power sounds strange to me and i think it is principally no need for. ( Black Dragon  from Day1, Mage Guild lvl4 or no recruiting in the first 7 days could rock a lot and maybe could break the game )




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Vesuvius
Vesuvius

Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
posted March 07, 2004 10:30 AM
Edited By: vesuvius on 7 Mar 2004

possible modifications

-Black dragon bonus modified to black dragon dwelling flagged?
-H4: The Scarab of Summoning and Breastplate of Life -- if removing breastplate, isnt that too weak for Nature Power?
-Hellfear: it is for enemy side only -- reduce to 4 days like plague?
-H3 scholar level4- 1giant+1naga?


Remember the powers are supposed to be very strong.  They aren't going to be available to all players but one, and usually it would end up power vs power. So I want them reasonably balanced.

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted March 07, 2004 11:19 AM

One question to Clan Power for "Scholar" (H3)

Are there any spells banned?
If not, "town portal" could be very helpful and eventually unbalance the game.

How about rename them from "Master of Spells" to "Master of Skills" and give them 2 (or maybe 3) secondary (basic) skills of free choice?

Or make up a mix of both of them:

"Master of spells and skills"
Level 1 and 2 are prebuilt in town and 2 (or 1) secondary skill(s) of free choice...)

...only an idea..

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the_teacher
the_teacher


Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
posted March 07, 2004 11:55 AM

collateral question

it will be a separate column for each clan which spcifies the number of powers available to use, (as an info for opponents ) in case some of us will decide not to spend them after exactly 9 wars and prefer to gather 2 or more for "special conditions"    ???

will be a minor hint in choosing the map for the war, but important.

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Arangar
Arangar


Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
posted March 07, 2004 02:34 PM

Silly question but here it goes....

Breastplate of life :

Would that be the 'breastplate of regen' (regeneration) or the 'Breastplate of life' (50% death ward) ?

Arangar


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Arangar
Norwegian viking
ranger of the north

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valkyrica
valkyrica


Supreme Hero
posted March 07, 2004 05:35 PM

Truly silly coming from our ToH representative in the tournament of century

Scarab and staff of summoning for nature seem worthy of a power, summoning more for less mana, seems quite logical.

i would think a black dragon joining first is better than a flagged dwelling since day, as that may  give you 2 extra dragons in the game, which is huge, i suggest giving the dragon in day 4 or 5 so you won't begin clearing the map day 1.

Limit the Hellfear to 4 days yes, still very powerful, enemy will stand around doing nothing for those days.

If you added hellfear, then increase the plague to 6-7 days, that way it can be comparable to the 4 days of not recruiting any troops.

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Blue_Camel
Blue_Camel


Famous Hero
posted March 07, 2004 06:11 PM

i also have a question, possible silly

is "potion of life" = potion of healing or potion of immortality?

also i think valkyrica has the best solution.. if you give them flagged blackie dwelling, it's even stronger than giving them 1 blackie from the start cuz you know they'll buy the blackie day 1, so they'll be just as strong from start (well they'll get L4 dwell a little slower, but they'll have, like valky said, ~2 more blackies at end of game.. and they'll have been clearing stuff from day 1)

I vote for giving them 1 blackie on day 4 or 5.. which is still a very strong specialty.

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insatiable
insatiable


Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
posted March 08, 2004 09:57 AM

Chaos power

good idea on day4 - black joins

Naturist power
i think ves means armor of regeneration- sounds reasonably strong, i like valk idea too, for nature staff instead of armor.. scarab very good choice and not absurdly strong cause adds to 'base summon power'(lev1 hero at 0% meditation)

Demonic
only i dont like is kinda hard to check if someone did buy AND use or not.. cause someone may buy by mistake too, may cause great misunderstanding
..also, may not be strong at all, if opponent has might hero or map is fairly rich.
How about not build notin for 5 days??.. in all towns
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Arangar
Arangar


Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
posted March 08, 2004 10:08 AM

I know we can pick Rogue clan but....

Can we have some more philosphies that start with Random town? Demanding but this has been on my mind, so mentioning it before it's too late

Arangar
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Arangar
Norwegian viking
ranger of the north

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Jinxer
Jinxer


Legendary Hero
*****
posted March 08, 2004 10:47 AM

I know my 2 cents never matters, but, what is the deal with the not building or not buying a hero for 4-5 days thing. That wouldnt be so bad on a map like Imperial Prison -Lost in Space- Danger Zone etc, but all other 70 maps on TOH you fall behind 4-5 days game is over week 3 lol.


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Kirky_Picardo
Kirky_Picardo

Tavern Dweller
posted March 08, 2004 02:25 PM

Well, it's probably not for me to comment on this as I really don't play h3 anymore, but what the hell, not many h3 guys seem to be giving input so I may as well.

On clan upgrades a few things strike me as odd. First of all some of the level 1 bonuses:

10 archers or pikeman, 10 goblins or wolfriders, etc.

Are you asking if the bonus should be one or the other or are both choices considered a bonus? Because noone in their right mind would choose 10 pikes over 10 archers or 15 gnolls over 15 lizardmen, so it seems kinda pointless to list them if so lol.

The other thing that stands out to me on clan upgrades is that the level 3 upgrade is very powerful. In fact, in many cases more so than the level 4. I know I would much rather have 6 unicorns over 1 green dragon or 7 gorgons/wyverns over 1 hydra. In terms of logical progression, it seems to me that the castle bonus is best, as peeps would rather have the angel over the monks or crusaders. The level 4 bonus is supposed to be a bit better than the level 3 isn't it?

Anyway, those are just a few thoughts on clan upgrades.

Good luck to all with this tournament

Kirky
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insatiable
insatiable


Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
posted March 08, 2004 02:57 PM

jinx.. not building for few days is bad for every mapstyle.. maybe worse in some less worse in others, as happens with all bonuses.
demonic could be '4 days no buildup anywhere'
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Jinxer
Jinxer


Legendary Hero
*****
posted March 08, 2004 07:39 PM

I agree its bad for all maps Insatiable, but take for example PowerSpot.  If you dont build at all for 4 days or cannot buy a hero for 4 days etc, game over. You got next to no chance. Whereas a map like Imperial Prison that goes into week 7 those 4 days arent game breakers, sure it is still a pain but not a game breaker.  That was the only point I was trying to make.

So I guess it will ultimately fall to the clan leaders to negotiate properly with these clans with these bonuses.

Jinxer
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Vesuvius
Vesuvius

Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
posted March 09, 2004 04:10 AM

H3: Scholar power:  The spells that are usually banned on the map would be banned for that power eg. Town portal
Rather keep the scholar power as is, with mage guild involvement.  (It actually was an original clan bonus back ages ago in the very first clans).

Power Usage: It will show on the clan homepages how many powers are available to use.

H4 Nature Power: Breastplate of Regen + Scarab
Or should it be Scarab & Staff?

Potion of Life = Immo potion

I personally think flagged black dragon dwelling worse idea than 1 free black drag in beginning.  If the scripting is easy enough to modify so that black dragon appears for joining at the 4th day, then that is even better.
For H3 black drag though, it remains as day 1 join.

Demonic for H4- we still need a clear consensus on this.

For now, only Rogue is random town.  Remember most ToH games are free challenge anyways, clans is a subtourney and so more specific.....

Also remember, you have 1 hero at start, so the Necro Power does not effect that first hero, just any other hero you plan to recruit.  The way I see it, its more powerful in H3, where you cannot move troops by themselves.  In H4 it aint so bad.

H3- Creatures- I still prefer to give choice, even if one is preferred over the other.
H3     Level 3 bonus could be weakened, but people had been asking to boost the level 3 bonus for some of them.  I'm guessing though that it will be very uncommon, if ever possible, for a clan to achieve level 4.
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Tc_Fear
Tc_Fear


Famous Hero
posted March 09, 2004 06:39 AM
Edited By: Tc_Fear on 9 Mar 2004

blackie 1st day

1---------
Demonic: Hellfear
Creatures cannot be recruited from hometown for 7 days
2----------
Necro:All enemy heroes in towns fall sick with heartworm. No heroes can be recruited from enemies' town taverns (or taverns near their town) for the first 4 days of the game.
----------
I vote to remove these 2 and figure something new, couse found them way to powerful, that gives automatic wins.
eg.for necro a hero(with master necro magic)
  for deamonic -few war and few magic guilds

----------
H4 Nature Power: Breastplate of Regen + Scarab
Or should it be Scarab & Staff?
----------
scrab is enough.think-8 phoenixes-powerful enough




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