|
| Thread: Alternative 10 commandments? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
posted March 05, 2004 05:31 PM |
|
|
Who is Sodos?! 
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted March 06, 2004 02:59 AM |
|
|
Ok, time for my comments then I guess:
Solon (or Sodos as someone called him!) and his commandments:
Firstly, people criticised him for being to vague, but there is a reason for this. Solon was writing to guide a government, not a religion. Solon, having drawn up the constitution relied on that document to ensure that the Democratic people of Athens would create their own version of "good" through laws and such like. Solon also wrote in the midst of a culture that worshipped many gods, and a culture that did not see their gods as being able to produce one moral set of "do's and don'ts" that humans could use. It would be unfair to label his as worse due to this theory. Solon's are incomplete and vague precisely because they are meant to be. They allow for change of thought and circumstance to influence morality and the concept of good, but working with the constitution, would ensure in theory that the good would be the consensus of the masses rather than a dictators will.
Solon was not writing as a guide to heaven, or on behalf of a god. Remember that Greek Religion consisted of many gods, contesting and vying with eachother, teasing and annoying humans at the same time as helping. It would make little sense to expect Solon to write one guide to heaven for all greek citizens as they were so divided that none would listen anyway, but much sense to write a moral guide based on situational ethics and allowing for changes in morality over time.
People have said (here and elsewhere) that Solon's commandments are both incomplete and vague, but they fail mostly to also apply the same standard to Moses'. Think for a moment on the severity of the biblical commandments. You commit a grevious sin against God himself if you Kill someone. What about self defence or killing someone in time of war? What if you lied to a Gestapo officer about a jewish person you were hiding during WWII, is that a grevious crime against god? As specific as the biblical commandments are, they suffer from being too specific to be followed by humans in our imperfect world.
Not only that, taken alone, Moses' commandments are as incomplete as Solon's. Someone believing in those commandments and knowing nothing else would presume that the morale of the tale is that you will before you die wound god dreadfully with the sin you will commit and probably spend the afterlife in hell. That is the morale if the commandments are taken alone. But they, like Solon's cannot and should not be taken alone. The biblical teaching says that repentance and through Jesus, your sins will be forgiven, bingo! The commandments have a valid point suddenly as they allow for the fact that humans will break them and yet still be forgiven.
So whilst it's valid to say that alone Solon's lack depth, it is irrelevant because Moses' lack forgiveness alone. Taken as single, stand-alone documents Solon's could be said to be, to quote Vadskye91 "meaningless" but to do so is to force yourself in fairness to do the same to Moses', in which case you doom his to being "impossible" or "doom-laden". Taken in their surrounding context though, both have sudden relevance. 
____________
We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
|
|
Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
|
|
posted March 09, 2004 02:17 PM |
|
|
Sorry about the Sodos/Solon error. I just forgot to check the author's name too carefully when I read those commandments. His real name is Solon!
____________
Knowledge is power...
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
|
posted September 23, 2004 02:49 AM |
|
Edited By: Svarog on 22 Sep 2004
|
Anyone else to post their own alternative commandments?
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
|
|
posted September 23, 2004 06:40 AM |
|
|
I will:
1)Listen to the people, but do not take for granted what they say.
2)Allways think beffore you act.
3)Contole your emotions as much as possible, eliminate them completly if you can.
4)Do not belive in god or in higher purpose.
5)Do not see things as good or bad, or as true or false.
6)Do not relly on other persons or things.
7)Allways try to satify your self, do not limit your self on someone elses rules.
8)Pay attention on the things that happen around, even on the smallest details.
9)Be destructive, than creative, and than again destructive....
10)Be humble, arogance is your biggest enemy.
____________
And now to the next post.
|
|
terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
|
|
posted September 23, 2004 01:11 PM |
|
|
These are my at the moment, don't know if it'll be 10, as I'll be inventing them as I go along 
1. Be true to yourself: Do not believe that something is so and so, just because you want it to be.
2. Always help those in need. Always be on the side of the underdog, if his cause is "just".
3. Don't honour any who don't deserve to be honoured. Doing so is hypocricy.
4. Forsake your emotions in public, if possible.
5. Reason should rule emotions, but reason without emotions is cynicism.
6. Heed the wise. Respect your betters, but only if you can be sure they are worth it.
7. Shut up if you don't have anything to say, but never be afraid to speak up against wrongness, or if you believe you have something to contribute with.
8. Do not let yourself be lured into the abyss of hedonism (nice phrasing?  ). You can get too much of everything, except for love and the respect of others. Always remember that the wealth of the world is scarce.
9. Protect what is right and your loved ones. Never let unjust actions remain unpaid for.
10. The most important one: NOTHING is ever simply black and white.
Note: "Always" isn't a word I would usually use in this context, as it must be used with care.
Note 2: I'm rather influenced by Socrates, believeing that there are some virtues that are absolute, but also with the sofists, who claimed, 2400 years before Einstein  , that everything is relative. In some kind of weird combo...
Note 3: Er, I forgot what to type
All kinds of critisism will be very welcome!
The worst thing was to make them sound like they've been taken from the mouth of some proud God
____________
"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
|
posted September 24, 2004 02:12 AM |
|
|
Good evening guys! I have an issue with you both.
Whats really wrong with showing your emotions and the "abyss of hedonism"?
Why on Earth cant I show I'm happy if I really feel that way? And why on Earth cant I have lots of sex, if I really want to?
Oh and somehow I find these two of Shirastro's commandmets a bit contradicting.
"Allways try to satify your self"
"Be humble, arogance is your biggest enemy."
resp
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
|
|
posted September 24, 2004 06:54 AM |
|
|
I didnt say you are not suppose to show them. You are not suppose to have them!
And those two statements are not contradictory to me. Arogance will just cloud your mind, not leting you see things how they really are. If your perception of the world is distorted, you will spend all your life persuing some goals that you really dont fish to achieve.
Onlt knowing what you really want, and what are your true desiers are(and eventualy fulfilling them) will lead you to happines......did i sound too Dalai Lamish
____________
And now to the next post.
|
|
Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
|
posted September 24, 2004 07:30 AM |
|
|
Svarog,
I truly do not agree with your sexual opinions. I would like to say, however, that I find you to be a rare breed of intellectual. You offer a good deal of thoughtful food.
I enjoy reading your posts and feel compelled to applaud your highly developed mind. I feel many members are posting more and more garbage that I consider quite indecipherable. It sickens me to log in, check the forums, and find so many threads created in the spirit of spamming.
I think of your posting and participation as good company. I have often wondered how great it would be to share a warm-cooked meal with you over a discussion about your thoughts on life in general. Perhaps one day, but until then I shall simply enjoy your posts and threads. It is good that you are here.
____________
Roses Are Red And So Am I
|
|
terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
|
|
posted September 24, 2004 11:42 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Whats really wrong with showing your emotions and the "abyss of hedonism"?
Why on Earth cant I show I'm happy if I really feel that way? And why on Earth cant I have lots of sex, if I really want to?
Well, it's just that I can't stand showing my emotions in public, and so I don't think others should, either. Does that make me some kind of control freak?
Really, I just think this has something with showing decent dignity in public. Maybe I'm a little old fashioned in that manner, but that's just the way I think it should be...
As for the "abyss of hedonism" thing, I just feel that there's higher values to be pursued that the pleasures of the flesh.
I'm not some kind of pietist (at least, I hope I'm not), but I think that, as I said, that the wealth of the world isn't enough to go around, and that we because of this should try not to waste them too much...
I'm not enitrely satisfied of the way I treid to explain that last one, but since I'm not very good at putting my thoughts down on "paper", it'll have to do...
____________
"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
|
posted September 26, 2004 01:50 AM |
|
|
Consis, I haven’t got that much praise for my entire life, other than from my mom perhaps. thx. Though, my “sexual opinions”, as you call them, are one of the foundation stones of my understanding of life. Oh, and as a word of consolation, you don’t even know a half of it.
Concerning emotions
Shirastro, what do you mean it’s best not to have emotions?! What does that make us, humans? Freakin robots. Aside the fact that it’s impossible to eliminate them, since they are part of our daily experiences. Without them, nothing really has its sense, because sensing the world is not enough by itself.
From here, why is one supposed not to show something that comes naturally in front of other people? Is it the shame, or the fear, or the artificial idea of decency that we have, that makes us suppress our emotions in front of other people, and on top of that to claim it’s not even good to reveal them. Whatever is the cause, it can only lead to deep frustration, because it is a social custom, not a natural one, to keep feelings inside.
Concerning hedonism
Maybe indeed there’re higher values than the gratification of the material needs, but that shouldn’t undermine their significance. So, why talking about an “abyss of hedonism”, instead maybe hedonism on a lower pedestal than spiritual completion.
Although according to me, the highest priority has that desire which has a momental need for fulfillment, at any given time, no matter whether it is material or spiritual.
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
|
|
posted September 26, 2004 04:28 AM |
|
|
Well Svarog to answer your question would be quiet difficulte, expetially with my limited english , but i'll try.
Yes i know that emotions are something naturale, and the fact that we dont show them openly is just a social construct,; but let me clear something. I was not saying that you should hide or not have emotions becouse of the other people, but becouse of you.
To truely answer your questions, we should first ask our selfs: what are emotions aniway? Do they have any purpose? Do they makes us better "life beings"?
You could say that we should feel them becouse they are naturale. Well there are some many "naturale" things that we dont do, and so many other "un-naturale" that we do.
If i should imagine how a life of a human should be if he would acted only on his naturale instincts.
He would, get born, not go to school or get any education but from his parents (about the basic survival), as soon as he get sexually mature he would begin fighting with other men so that he could have sex with some X woman, after that he would leave her, live for some time alone, than find another one that he can f**k, and so on and so on, and than he would die.
He would not: find a true job, care about his children, read books, think about art, hook on the internet, play HOMM, take long walks by the lake, go out for diner, care about people diying in the third world, dancing at clubs, have dogs named fluffy, quie at the supermarket, wash his car, drive his car, have a car, sing under the shower, think about filosophy.........
In other words he would remain primitive.
I see emotions as the remnants of our "animale" side. If we are to continue our progress as a specie, our priority should not be to make progress technologicaly or socialy, but mentaly.
Not couse some higher being has created this path for us, but simply becouse we can.
I truely belive that humans, can reach some higher level of conciusnes, and only then will we truely be able to solve our problems.
Emotions are useless, no actually they are harmfull, couse they are just bluring our minds........here i go Dali Lamish again
I hope i made my self clear.
____________
And now to the next post.
|
|
Trogdor
Legendary Hero
Words in a custom title
|
|
posted September 26, 2004 01:30 PM |
|
|
Quote:
The Ten Commandments of Moses (Deuteronomy 5:6-21, Exodus 20:3-16) run as follows*
1. Have no other gods before me [the God of the Hebrews].
2. Make no images of anything in heaven, earth or the sea, and do not worship or labor for them.
3. Do not vainly use the name of your God [the God of the Hebrews].
4. Do no work on the seventh day of the week.
5. Honor your parents.
6. Do not kill.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not give false testimony against another.
10. Do not desire another's wife or anything that belongs to another.
And now, a review.
1) This one makes no sense. Should be "Have more than one god".
2) I don't understand. I think "No smoking" is a far better one.
3) Should be changed to "Use the name of God to describe oneself".
4) What about the sixth day?
5) Keep this one.
6) Killing is wrong.
7) Those Yanks need to learn.
8) Unless it is part of a sport.
9) Damn those punk kids with fake IDs.
10) What if they have a better home than us?
____________
"Through the power of the dollar you can communicate with the dead." - Artu
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
|
posted September 28, 2004 12:49 AM |
|
|
Omg, shirastro, i thought u more of the anarchistic type, but you really got deep in the order this time.
I think that we have a blurry distinction between emotions and natural instincts. I suppose you direct your philosophy to the latter, cause if it was about the first one (just emotions), boy, then you do have a problem. Pure emotions, buddy, cant possibly be a remnant of the “animalistic” within man. Instead they give meaning to all activities that humans engage in, even the most banal and complex social activities, which you claim are the goal.
Or let me dissect your “unemotional” activities one by one:
You care about ur kids because you love them; you play homm cos u find it fun and it excites you and amuses you; you walk by the lake cos u feel tranquility then; you care about people dying in Somalia because u feel empathy; u have a dog fluffy cos u like company and possibly love dogs named fluffy etc.
Now if you imagine people acting like robots, without emotions in order to reach a “higher level of consciousness”, I couldn’t disagree more. I feel the rationalism is strong inside you, young Jedi. You’re slowly passing to the Light Side
On the contrary, I belong to a group of “nutheads”, which believe that the animal spirits of man are essentially more important to be appeased than the other “social needs”. Or in your interesting phrasing, I do believe that f***ing with that X female is more important than playing homm. (I know I’m gonna get bashed for this. ) It’s not a primitive inferior need compared to the sophisticated desire to do philosophy, for example. Quite the opposite – an essential need, without which an acute frustration is certain to capture one’s psyche. And I’m not talking only about sex here (much to consis’ delight), but also other manifestations of the id. (hope i don’t sound too freudish here)
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
|
|
posted September 28, 2004 01:25 AM |
|
|
Well i guess the image you have of me is quiet wrong.
I am not an anarchist, actually i'm quiet an oposite.
A perfect society for me would be a society where you have absolutly no power over your self, where every and each smalest decision is made be some other and unique mind wich governs us all. Where an individualism doasnt exist and where your body is just a tool, to be used in acomplishing the fisical tasks for the unique mind.
A society where "you" "me" "he" doasnt exist, only "us" doas.....in other words humanity as a whole.
A society where your personal need and wishes, not only are not important, but doasn't exist at all. Where emotions would exist only on a group, empathic, level.
Personal happines is just another way to fool our mind.
Perfection doasnt lay in it, it lays in indiference.
____________
And now to the next post.
|
|
Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
|
|
posted September 28, 2004 02:27 AM |
|
|
Puppet then.
Or robot?
Or muppet?
____________
To err is human, to arr is pirate.
|
|
bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
|
|
posted September 29, 2004 02:24 PM |
|
|
The first commandment is : Thou shalt not talk about the ten commandments.
The second commandment is : Thou shalt not talk about the ten commandments.
The third commandment is : If this is your first religious experience, you will experience a revelation.
And so on and so forth.
____________
Drive by posting.
|
|
Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
|
|
posted September 29, 2004 03:51 PM |
|
|
Talkig about puppets.
____________
And now to the next post.
|
|
Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
|
|
posted September 30, 2004 12:29 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Well i guess the image you have of me is quiet wrong.
I am not an anarchist, actually i'm quiet an oposite.
A perfect society for me would be a society where you have absolutly no power over your self, where every and each smalest decision is made be some other and unique mind wich governs us all. Where an individualism doasnt exist and where your body is just a tool, to be used in acomplishing the fisical tasks for the unique mind.
A society where "you" "me" "he" doasnt exist, only "us" doas.....in other words humanity as a whole.
A society where your personal need and wishes, not only are not important, but doasn't exist at all. Where emotions would exist only on a group, empathic, level.
Personal happines is just another way to fool our mind.
Perfection doasnt lay in it, it lays in indiference.
Gavin Magnus lives.
____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
|
|
Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
|
|
posted September 30, 2004 03:48 AM |
|
|
It took me some time to remember who he is Svarog
But aniway, i didn't ment it in that way......the "one" mind should not be the mind of one person that controles everibody, more something like borg, colective conciusnes. Social empathy, would be the right definition i guess. You exist for the comunity (humanity).....something similar to the ant and bees society (without the queen thou), where everibody work for their hive.
Extreme Communism i guess .
____________
And now to the next post.
|
| |
|
|
