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| Thread: Princess Diana |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Wolfman
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posted January 14, 2005 12:00 AM |
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The guy went to a fancy dress party in an outfit quite common over here for such events. It's not the end of the world or a statement about what he belives, it was a costume. People are blowing this WAY out of context and proportion.
They are absolutely blowing this out of proportion. If this little costume at a costume party automatically makes him part of the SS to Consis, Consis would probably call me Himmler. I don’t wear those things, but I do a lot of research on it.
You’re not alone, PH, I laughed when I heard the story. I thought it was funny that there was a full story on the news devoted to it. Then I came here and watched more news this afternoon and I didn’t think it was so funny anymore. Some people can’t seem to tell the difference between spouting Nazi rhetoric in the streets of London and simply going to a costume party with an armband. (If you want to get technical, the armband wasn’t even made correctly.) The SS and SA had the swastika turned, not a straight up and down.
From the news story:
On Thursday, Jewish groups and lawmakers in Britain criticized Harry for the stunt.
I really don’t understand how it was a stunt, a casual party being taken so seriously is kind of ridiculous. Isn’t a stunt something that is planned hoping for a certain response?
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I agree that he should indeed visit Auschwitz. The lad needs a good flogging with the club of common sense.
He needs to visit the places his mother visited and then go speak to living remnants of Aushwitz. He must come to know why Winston Churchill is so great a figure in history.
To ignore history is to repeat it methinks...
Why should he visit Auschwitz? What would that prove? If he’s not a Nazi, what’s the problem? Winston Churchill has nothing to do with this. Neither do the places his mother went, it’s completely irrelevant.
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privatehudson
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posted January 14, 2005 12:27 AM |
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If this little costume at a costume party automatically makes him part of the SS to Consis, Consis would probably call me Himmler. I don’t wear those things, but I do a lot of research on it.
Well to be fair I don't think he went quite that far.
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Then I came here and watched more news this afternoon and I didn’t think it was so funny anymore. Some people can’t seem to tell the difference between spouting Nazi rhetoric in the streets of London and simply going to a costume party with an armband.
Precisely. There's many neo-nazi groups in both our countries, alongside people like Le Pen in France and Irving here (Irving is a revisionist historian for those who don't know) denying the holocaust or elements of it, or even supporting Hitler and/or his aims. These are the people who we should spend our efforts opposiing and exposing, not some young guy who dressed up for a party.
To give an example of how serious it's being taken, Harry was due soon to enter Sandhurst. (the British army's academy for officer training, think West Point) Some have even suggested he should not be allowed to join because of this! Just insane if you ask me. To answer your next question, some have suggested he may have even done this precisely to avoid Sandhurst 
I also don't think he should be "forced" to visit anywhere. Students in schools here get a very detailed series of lessons on the subject, including meeting survivors of the camps as an example. Whilst it's possible Harry might not have recieved this education as he went to a private school, but I find it highly unlikely he's unaware of what happened in general.
Edit: STOP AGREEING WITH ME DAMNIT! 
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Shiva
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posted January 14, 2005 12:32 AM |
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Edited By: Shiva on 13 Jan 2005
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They are absolutely blowing this out of proportion. If this little costume at a costume party automatically makes him part of the SS to Consis, Consis would probably call me Himmler. I don’t wear those things, but I do a lot of research on it.
On Thursday, Jewish groups and lawmakers in Britain criticized Harry for the stunt.
I really don’t understand how it was a stunt, a casual party being taken so seriously is kind of ridiculous. Isn’t a stunt something that is planned hoping for a certain response?
Wolfman, if you went to a party with an "I Love Osama"
t-shirt, how would that appear? There are people that this
matters alot to. You seem to not understand that.
And again, Private Hudson, I agree with you that those others are far more dangerous. However, by Harry doing
this, it can so easily be misunderstood as a statement
of its cool to pretend your a Nazi by a young kid.
Harry blew it big time as a public figure. There are different rules for public figures, he crossed the line.
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privatehudson
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posted January 14, 2005 12:38 AM |
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Wolfman, if you went to a party with an "I Love Osama"
t-shirt, how would that appear? There are people that this
matters alot to. You seem to not understand that.
The problem would be that fear of offending people would stop you using virtually every costume one could dream up. Someone almost always takes offense to these things, usually without bothering to worry about whether the person they claim offended them intended to or not.
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terje_the_ma...
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posted January 14, 2005 12:39 AM |
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There are still Brits alive who were alive during WWII, who suffered during the Blitz,and all that, so he could have been a little more thoughful.
But it's still been blown out of proportions. He's a kid, amd kids make mistakes, even if this was, as PH said, a costume party where he went dressed as a "monster".
As for him visiting Oswiechim (Auschwitz). What's the point in that? I've been there, and it's not that special.
At least didn't I think so, but I'm a very cynical guy...
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Shiva
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posted January 14, 2005 01:06 AM |
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The problem would be that fear of offending people would stop you using virtually every costume one could dream up. Someone almost always takes offense to these things, usually without bothering to worry about whether the person they claim offended them intended to or not.
And so, we enter the world of political correctness where
nobody can say,do, or wear anything...I don't think so, thats a bit extreme. Lets try just association with the
bigger idiots of the worlds history a la Hitler etc.
Of course, I'm a fairly reasonable person, I'm sure others
are offended much more easily.
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privatehudson
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posted January 14, 2005 01:28 AM |
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And so, we enter the world of political correctness where
nobody can say,do, or wear anything...I don't think so, thats a bit extreme. Lets try just association with the
bigger idiots of the worlds history a la Hitler etc.
I disagree that we should make such things taboo in that way. Some of our best comedies center around making fun of the issue such as Dad's Army, Fawlty Towers and so on. People don't mind John Cleese making fun out of it, or seeing Germans and Nazis in movies, but woe betide someone dares to use them for a fancy dress costume? I can appreciate some people might be offended, but frankly they need to realise that there's much more important issues in the world than what a prince does for laughs.
Now assuming he was mocking Jews or the survivors, doubting the holocaust or similar, that would be offensive. Until then I think these people would find just about anything offensive without actually taking the time to find out what the thing was.
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Consis
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posted January 14, 2005 01:54 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 14 Jan 2005
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Distinction
I think being politically correct sometimes veils itself in just distinction. To be fair I must yield to the point of taking this incident too far. It may well have been taken too far by me and others.
Distinguish these facts:
1. Should I go to a party dressed as a man who literally attacked my country and killed thousands? Would it be held as regardless and meaningless for me to dress up as Osama Bin Laden?
2. Now what about the British? Should Harry go to a party dressed as a man who literally tried to destroy/obliterate/raze all of Britain to the ground? How many V-1/2 rockets landed on cities in Britain? How many fine dignified british soldiers led by Winston Churchill were killed by Nazis; How many of those were jewish and kept aside for internment and eventual extermination? Would it be thought of as regardless/meaningless for Prince Harry to dress up as a Nazi?
Nazis sought to utterly destroy Brittain, period, no question, beyond any reasonable doubt.
There are some things in this world which are greater than any one man or woman. Some principles are greater than the individual who champions them. Is human civil rights any less important without Abraham Lincoln? Were the Nazis any less a monster without Hitler? The answers can be yes and no. I tend to think that the Nazi theology is as dangerous and evil as it was all those years ago. As clearly stated by PrivateHudson, there are still those alive today who would seek to do exactly as the Nazis once did at Auschwitz.
Prince Harry is only one small insignificant man. Let there be no question of this. It is the platform from his birth through which the greater concept of anti-semitism and fascism could be taken advantage of. He, as a man, is no more great or significant than any other man; but the 2nd Prince of Wales can influence thousands or possibly millions of people. And what is more important is that his position is that of an adult. He is 20yrs old. He isn't a child; he's a grown man with the right to make his own choices and be held responsible for those choices.
I'm saying he, like his mother, must realize the nature of his position. He has the power to influence so many people. How could he do this to his own people? I think he is as finished as Howard Dean was when he yelled and screamed in the cameras. Who would ever let this person take the role of a world leader; certainly not the democratic free world methinks.
If any one of our presidents had done the same would they have been elected? Where will the peoples' hearts lay? Will it be in a leader who has spent his whole life working hard to make a difference in the world or will it be with someone who is inclined to childish ignorance remaining blissfully unaware of the true danger of evil men?
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Svarog
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posted January 14, 2005 05:41 AM |
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Should I go to a party dressed as a man who literally attacked my country and killed thousands? Would it be held as regardless and meaningless for me to dress up as Osama Bin Laden?
Why not? People here also use Nazi motives for carnevals going on. Last year for April fools I was a communist general, and as the crowd moved everywhere, I saw my eternal enemy Hitler, and I approached him, hugged and took a wonderful picture together. 
Point is, Hitler is no big deal on costume parties. Its actually part of the ritualistic comedy, a tradition originating long long ago. Doesnt have any politica meaning of its own.
If it wasnt the prince, no one would consider it distasteful, and thats discrimination.
so, i'm with PH on this one.
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Wolfman
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posted January 14, 2005 05:46 AM |
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Wow, a communist and a Nazi hugging...that would be a good picture. I'd like to see that.
Svarog, PrivateHudson and Wolfman all agreeing on the same thing...weird.
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Consis
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posted January 14, 2005 07:33 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 14 Jan 2005
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The Bigger Picture
I suppose I don't know what it's like to be royal.
But one thing is certain for me. My ancestors speak to me through their accomplishments and failures. When asked why he forced all those people to tour the death camps after the war, Eisenhower was quoted as saying: "Some day someone will say this didn't happen. They won't believe it and they'll demand proof or disagree all together." I think he was right. Forgiving does not = forgetting.
I believe today is the 'some day' he was talking about. Today people don't fear the threat of Nazi-fascist regimes. We've been through a cold war. We know that wars are long gone as conventional. Today terrorism is more insidious than communism because it does not only seek to destroy the individual but entire international communities as well. Today is a time when symbolism is used as the modern terrorist weapon of choice. The planes did not simply crash into the world trade centers by chance. They did so to indicate, rather symbolize a new kind of war. On the news they show an accident of chemicals, a couple of snipers, and a building collapsing but why? People ask: "What does it mean; did the terrorists do this? Should we vote for more funding in government sponsored anti-terrorist organizations? What should we do?"
After september 11th, 2001 this is the new world we live in. It has changed now and symbolism has become even more present on the minds of not only Americans but also Spaniards, Irish, Russians, Israelis, British, Saudis, Iraqis, Pakistanis, Indians, and many more. The world has changed.
This is what I think Harry should come to realize. His actions may have been in jest at a party or for some petty reason like avoiding the military but there is a larger picture to look at. He is an adult now. It's time he started acting like it. The world is watching.
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privatehudson
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posted January 14, 2005 10:57 AM |
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Should I go to a party dressed as a man who literally attacked my country and killed thousands? Would it be held as regardless and meaningless for me to dress up as Osama Bin Laden?
To draw a paralell, if somoene at a fancy dress party came as an IRA terrorist I would not find that offensive or disturbing no, it would be meaningless to me. If however he was suggesting at the same time the IRA were wonderful and great people, then I'd have a problem.
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Should Harry go to a party dressed as a man who literally tried to destroy/obliterate/raze all of Britain to the ground?
Why not? As I said, we also make fun of Hitler and the Nazis in our TV, our Theatre, our daily lives and so on. Why is it taboo for someone to do so at a fancy dress party?
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but the 2nd Prince of Wales can influence thousands or possibly millions of people. And what is more important is that his position is that of an adult. He is 20yrs old. He isn't a child; he's a grown man with the right to make his own choices and be held responsible for those choices.
So basically, the argument seems to be that you object to it being Harry doing this rather than anyone. As much as he may well influence people, he does not influence youth as much as people may think in this country. Let me suggest the following, had this story never been highlighted, no-one at all would have been influenced by his actions, and that would have been MUCH better than what the press are up to at the moment.
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I'm saying he, like his mother, must realize the nature of his position. He has the power to influence so many people. How could he do this to his own people? I think he is as finished as Howard Dean was when he yelled and screamed in the cameras. Who would ever let this person take the role of a world leader; certainly not the democratic free world methinks.
Again, blowing it out of all proportion. It has influence because the press MAKE it have influence, because they can use it to sell papers to ignorant people who don't bother to discover the facts behind the case. All he did was pull a prank at a fancy dress party. He's 20 years old and liable to make mistakes, one should not act like he's suddenly a political leper.
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If any one of our presidents had done the same would they have been elected? Where will the peoples' hearts lay? Will it be in a leader who has spent his whole life working hard to make a difference in the world or will it be with someone who is inclined to childish ignorance remaining blissfully unaware of the true danger of evil men?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you've probably never met Harry have you? so how pray tell do you know that he is "blissfully unaware of the true danger of evil men"?
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The world is watching.
The world should concern itself with more important problems and not interfere in someone's private life.
I also disagree that this is "some day". People are still more than aware of the holocaust. It is still taught in school, people still visit the places, watch the films, read the books that describe the horrors. No-one who isn't inclined to be of a Facist disposition has really forgotten.
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Shiva
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posted January 14, 2005 01:14 PM |
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The world should concern itself with more important problems and not interfere in someone's private life.
This is the point. He doesn't really have a private life.
He was born into the public domain, doubled when his mother died. Thats why I think hes really quite stupid and surrounded by more dumb people to have done this without any thought. If anything, he has no sense of public relations, and since his life is all about public
relations, he really needs to learn fast.
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privatehudson
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posted January 14, 2005 01:39 PM |
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This is the point. He doesn't really have a private life.
Unfortunately not no. Frankly I think everyone has a right to a private life and that this constant expectation that we in the public have some right to tell famous people what to do with theirs is both hypocricy and silly. If he doesn't have a private life then that's a problem society needs to adress IMO rather than him worrying about what the public thinks of his actions.
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Consis
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posted January 14, 2005 05:17 PM |
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Edited By: Consis on 14 Jan 2005
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Finally A Spark Of Hope For The Lad
 http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/01/14/harry.charles.reut/index.html
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Prince Charles has ordered his son Harry to visit Auschwitz after he caused outrage around the world by wearing a Nazi uniform to a party.
I want to say "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". But really, a person can't be forced into changing their outlook on life. When he goes there I hope he uses his time wisely.
I would also like to add to my earlier 'distinctions' post.Quote:
To draw a parallel, if someone at a fancy dress party came as an IRA terrorist I would not find that offensive or disturbing no, it would be meaningless to me. If however he was suggesting at the same time the IRA were wonderful and great people, then I'd have a problem.
I understand your point. You are saying you would have a problem with someone who blatantly supports said organizations/philosophies. I agree. But please let me try and put it in another way. Oh and I agree with you that my Osama Bin Laden comparison was wrong as you pointed out. I think a better comparison might have been Hirohito.
Prince Harry did not wear any makeup on his face. He simply wore a uniform with his quite well-known face practically supporting the garb. Had he donned a miniature fake Hitler mustache, jelled his hair over, and slicked it down to glistening quality then his costume might have seemed more appropriate. But he didn't. Instead his person seemed to support his uniform. What is the point of dressing up for a costume party by simply wearing a military uniform? If I wanted to go as General MacArthur to a costume party then I would not simply wear a 1940's U.S. navy admiral's uniform. I would get a hat similar to his, some kind of smoking pipe, and some sunglasses. Do you see my point?
Here in America we have Nazi rallies in many different parts of the country. Every rally features the usual flag burning, hate-intensive screaming/yelling with the arm stretched out the way they do, and many of the people go dressed in a Nazi uniform. They do not wear any other costume-related makeup or hair. It is to say they(the individual) support the clothing they wear. They are making a symbolic statement of what their beliefs are.Quote:
We also make fun of Hitler and the Nazis in our TV, our Theatre, our daily lives and so on. Why is it taboo for someone to do so at a fancy dress party?
You're right, it's not taboo for someone to do such. Remember the "Hogan's Heroes" t.v. show? People were smiling, laughing, making fun of the dress idiosyncracies, mannerisms, common behavior, etc. That was in good jest. But they were actors. And so too are most of the common people who dress up as Nazis who go to dinner parties and costume-related events. They don't simply wear the uniform. They get the makeup, hair, and behave as they did(stomping the floor and throwing out an ominous "SIEG HAILE!"). It's funny to watch.
And yes PrivateHudson, you are correct as the paragraph above this one clearly supports your observation. I do mostly have a problem with Prince Harry doing this more so than other people.
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It has influence because the press MAKE it have influence, because they can use it to sell papers to ignorant people who don't bother to discover the facts behind the case. All he did was pull a prank at a fancy dress party. He's 20 years old and liable to make mistakes, one should not act like he's suddenly a political leper.
I agree and respect your opinion my friend. You are right; the press does exactly as you say. I wish it were not so but how realistic is it to ask for such. Here in my country we have freedom of press written into our laws. I would even say that today's world thinks in much the same way. Freedom of the press is something the whole world values. You are also correct to say that they are blowing it way out of proportion. I don't want to ruin Prince Harry's life. I simply want him to make a visible effort to try to understand what that uniform he wore means to the entire world. This is much bigger than an internal British squabble.
About Prince Harry's private life. Let me please try and take your thoughts in a different direction.
Question: Why do people care about someone's private life in the way we have seen concerning Prince Harry?
Answer(in my opinion): People have a right to take an active interest in affairs that affect them. If Prince Harry's public life constantly showed him to be upstanding, honorable, forthright, honest, and filled with integrity then it bodes well for those he might someday lead. But what if his private life reveals a much different person from the one who stands in the limelight? What if his private life reveals him to be the opposite of being filled with integrity. If you were his subject you'd want to know wouldn't you?
Question: Why take an interest in Prince Harry's character at all? Why take any interest in anyone's?
Answer(in my opinion): If a person is likely to have a great affect on the life of your children and their children then you have a right to be interested in that person. I think the American comparison to Prince Harry is probably what we call "The House Speaker" or "Speaker of the House". In the event the President and Vice are incapacitated or killed this person will be our temporary president. We don't often really care much about this person, but if for some reason this person shows some small sign of symbolic disposition with the american public then we the people have a right to know about it. In conjunction with our third-in-line yours seems even more imporant than ours because that person is born into the position, not elected. My thoughts on monarchy need not be interjected here(as I disagree all together). Regardless of that, my point is the people have a right to know because this boy's private life may one day come to partially rule the greatest ally my country has or will ever have. What affects your country will most certainly affect mine. We did not become a global superpower without the help of our greatest and most honorable ally, Britain/United Kingdom.
Let's hope Prince Charles' infuriation sinks in. I believe he knows well the meaning of that uniform. As the world knows well, there was a time in history when we all might have lost the war. And it all depended on Great Britain in my opinion. Had Britain fell Germany would have won the european front. Today the United Kingdom is still key to linking America to Europe. Because we all know this, we take a vested interest in what goes on 'over there'.
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privatehudson
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posted January 14, 2005 10:05 PM |
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I want to say "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". But really, a person can't be forced into changing their outlook on life. When he goes there I hope he uses his time wisely.
As a cynic I feel compelled to point out that Charles is engaging in damage limitation rather than education. Charles is much more concerned with public image than Harry so it comes as no suprise that he imposed this on him.
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If I wanted to go as General MacArthur to a costume party then I would not simply wear a 1940's U.S. navy admiral's uniform. I would get a hat similar to his, some kind of smoking pipe, and some sunglasses. Do you see my point?
Not really no, he just went with a swastika armband and some mock rank tabs from what I saw tacked onto a normal shirt. I don't think we can assume that just because his costume was poor that this means he in some way wishes to support the uniform or beliefs behind it. I believe you're reading far too much into his motives frankly.
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And yes PrivateHudson, you are correct as the paragraph above this one clearly supports your observation. I do mostly have a problem with Prince Harry doing this more so than other people.
And here we enter a paradox. Whatever you may think of the UK, I can assure you that people Harry's age pay a good deal more attention to TV and movies for inspiration and influence than they do a member of the Royal family. Harry dressing up as a nazi for fancy dress is not likely to influence that many kids in their beliefs. If there is a problem with how kids think of the holocaust period it's got lot to do with school teachings and our entertainment, and naff all to do with what Harry thinks of the matter trust me.
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I don't want to ruin Prince Harry's life. I simply want him to make a visible effort to try to understand what that uniform he wore means to the entire world.
Why should he for people who do nothing but abuse his privacy, attack him for his actions and generally just treat him as a waste of space for being human? (again not you but...) I mean I can understand if he wanted to, but I refuse to accept that the public of my country or anywhere, or Charles have the right to impose on him what he does.
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This is much bigger than an internal British squabble.
Allow me to briefly touch on a thought as to why this has brought so much outrage. Whilst holocaust memorial day does rightly get an immense amount of press here, obviously people concerned with places like holocaust museums clearly believe this is not enough, listen to any of them in the last few days and this comes across. IMO most of them are abusing this situation for their own means. They've seen a high profile figure here loosely connected to poking fun at the issue. Instead of attacking the real problems such as Le Pen and neo-nazi groups, which is rather old news and unlikely to draw attention, they use the Harry situation to draw light onto their work. There's no other logical reason I can think of why these people would cry outrage over Harry's dress sense and ignore Le Pen's comments other than the fact that they know what a French politician spouts will be unlikely to sell British papers and highlight their issue.
I've no problem with their work being highlighted, but I strongly suspect that the majority of these groups are willingly blowing this out of proportion for their own means and I find that rather upsetting. I'm no royalist, but I object to them being used to make political points in such a way. Every single group who spoke about the issue linked to the Holocaust in some way concerned themselves with using their airtime to talk about how the country needs better education and how we should never forget. All good points, but none of them I heard seemed very interested in discussing the actual event or Harry's opinions.
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People have a right to take an active interest in affairs that affect them. If Prince Harry's public life constantly showed him to be upstanding, honorable, forthright, honest, and filled with integrity then it bodes well for those he might someday lead. But what if his private life reveals a much different person from the one who stands in the limelight? What if his private life reveals him to be the opposite of being filled with integrity. If you were his subject you'd want to know wouldn't you?
In all honesty the majority of my generation don't much care what he gets up to in his private life. Which btw is full of binge drinking, problems with various addictions and violent tempers. In many respects most people I know simply see him as typical of his age and hope he grows out of it. However, I don't think I have the right to know what he gets up to (as long as he's not breaking the law), and I frankly do not wish to know either. In a similar sense, if I'd have been American 10 years ago, my reaction to the whole Lewinsky issue would have been "And it's my business what his sexual habits are because?"
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I think the American comparison to Prince Harry is probably what we call "The House Speaker" or "Speaker of the House".
True in the strict terms of line of sucession, but I believe you will find many people here are not overly interested or bothered what he says and does. Remember that as a mere figurehead, his opinions cannot and will never influence our country's government (Well theoretically it could but would spark an uprising in all likelyhood) and therefore they matter very little and much less than your speaker and President/VP who can. Whilst he may by some freak of chance rule the country, he will never be able to force his opinions on it, and in that respect what he thinks really should not worry anyone outside the country either.
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Let's hope Prince Charles' infuriation sinks in. I believe he knows well the meaning of that uniform.
To be fair Consis, you or I have no way of knowing whether Harry himself knows well the meaning or does not. We speculate, but you cannot assume that because of a prank he doesn't appreciate who or what the Nazis were.
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Consis
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posted January 14, 2005 11:17 PM |
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Fair Amount Of Criticism
I think it's a fair amount that I've said. I would further like to add how re-assuring it is to hear you(or any British subject) reinforce the real influence of a modern Prince of Wales. It's very re-assuring indeed.
This is why I am reading more about British civil war history. I want to know exactly what kind of influence/power a modern monarchy actually posseses. Today's English monarchy is not so official as it was 100yrs ago. And in conjunction I am also looking forward to reading more about the global influence of the French revolution(especially upon the British). I have a theory that I have yet to be supported with research. My theory is that there might have been a time in history when all the seperate royal families of the world were so in fear of being physically/forcefully removed from power that they actually decided to compromise rather than experience a bloody coup. Less power yes, but still alive and still quite influencial.
I look forward to my reading and thankyou for your responses PrivateHudson.
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privatehudson
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posted January 15, 2005 02:42 AM |
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I think it's a fair amount that I've said. I would further like to add how re-assuring it is to hear you(or any British subject) reinforce the real influence of a modern Prince of Wales. It's very re-assuring indeed.
Well don't take my word to represent everyone here. There's a lot of people in the country who see him as a playboy and resent his attitude to life, there's republicans who hate him simply for being who he is that think this event is another excuse to remove the monarchy, there's royalists who are angry he'd be so naive, and there's Jews who are deeply offended. The experience I've had talking to friends and family though is that most people feel pretty much as I do.
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I want to know exactly what kind of influence/power a modern monarchy actually posseses. Today's English monarchy is not so official as it was 100yrs ago.
Well I could naturally give my spin on it, but I'm not completely up to speed on how it works. Reading about the subject may well be best to grasp the issue.
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My theory is that there might have been a time in history when all the seperate royal families of the world were so in fear of being physically/forcefully removed from power that they actually decided to compromise rather than experience a bloody coup. Less power yes, but still alive and still quite influencial.
Well....
If you're looking at it from the revolution onwards, you'll miss some supporting evidence for your theory, which btw I consider to be rather sound. If you look into things like the Magna Carta and the English Civil war you will get further proof. Both show periods where the Monarch demanded absolute power as a devine right, or an attempt to exercise power that was unpopular. Both also show that elements of English society (Barons in the MC, Parliment in ECW) rose against this and forced the king to accept conditions to his power and forms of civil rights. I'd heartily reccomend studying those periods, even if only briefly to show background proof and that the process was gradual rather than abrupt. Also it may well be worth a look into Louis XIV's reign to examine what real absolute monarchy was like and how he was able to make such a system work, comparing this to Louis the XVI who obviously could not.
If I was going to suggest one thing to consider it would be that really speaking, people did not always care so much about an absolute ruler as long as said ruler was popular and sucessful. The people rose against Louis XVI to remove his absolute authority and weaken the Monarchy (before they ever considered executing him the revolutionaries created a constitutional monarchy), but soon afterwards accepted the reign of Napoleon who wielded even stronger dictatorial powers than Louis. Napoleon also had an interesting habit of placing Brothers and Marshals on the thrones of Europe's duchies and countries showing nepotism. What I'm suggesting is that you should consider that people would not rebel and force their monarchs to accept less power if the Monarch was popular basically, part of the reason why the process could be argued to take so long.
Anyway, congrats again on being inquisitive
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted January 15, 2005 03:34 AM |
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If a person is likely to have a great affect on the life of your children and their children then you have a right to be interested in that person.
I dont think you have the right (be it legal or moral) to be interested in their private lives, but right and morality have always had little to do with the cruel reality of things. Therefore, I think the royal bloke could have been more considerate, knowing how the simple-minded masses would react. After all, its the one thing he needs to take care of in life, cos everything else is given to him by birth right.
PH, how do you feel being called "british subject"? hehe, i see he took ur words quite literally. or should he have?
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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darksparkle
Hired Hero
Quote the raven,
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posted January 15, 2005 04:14 AM |
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It's not fair. Why does Prince William always gets the hottest chicks, why can he go and do whatever he wants, buy whatever he wants. and in spite all this, everybody loves him. Buaaaaaa!! *river of tears floods Svarog's room*
hey, prince william is hot!
thats why
maybe the reason u dont get the hottest chicks is cause youre ugly
just kiddin svarog
ya know i luv ya (this is what i say to my friends )
~Raivyn~
Currently Undergoing Mental Repair
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Why does death have to be such a likely answer?
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