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| Thread: MODIFIED GENERATOR FOR RANDOM MAPS | |
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archdevil_666
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 16, 2001 01:49 PM |
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MODIFIED GENERATOR FOR RANDOM MAPS
MODIFIED GENERATOR FOR RANDOM MAPS
Well for those of u that dident know i only play random maps or in rare cases some toh maps just for fun. And as so many posts in here allready said, its true that i only have a small group of players to play with since many toh players dont like randoms.
Why dont u ?
The way i figured it is that it must be of the poor quality that the random generator sometimes comes up with, like huge advantages for one of the players in terms of recources and artifacts towns etc.
Why dont i play regular fixed toh maps unless for fun ?
Well, its very simple actaully i am quite new to toh and the fixed maps generally played by toh players. so instead of study all the maps for weeks to have a chance on them against good playes i decided it was more fun to just go along and play, so i choosed random.
Solution ?
Well i think it is actually very important to get more ppl to play each other than to just play the ones u allready know. it tends to be the same all over time and time again (still very enjoyable though) Therefore i think it could be a great idea for heroes 4 random map generator to be able to have an option that mirrors half of the map and put it on the other half. This way u would get a map that noone has seen before but still u know that your opponent faces the same problems or difficulties as u do. I think this could bring a stop to the small groups that players belong to because of the mutal interests in maps and type of games ?
HOPE TO PLAY ALL OF U SOMEDAY, WELL MAYBE NOT U JAY :-)
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Cheesus
Known Hero
The Untouchable
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posted July 16, 2001 02:09 PM |
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hmm
It might be nice to be able to adjust something in random maps. I never play randoms myself cause i like to know whatīs coming to me.
Even though this would be very nice to see, I donīt think the generator would be able to do this. The maps you would like to see ARE TOH maps. The only difference is you donīt get to see them before you play. The map generator we have now uses originall maps as guidelines for how the new created map will be. This would mean the generator will take more time to make a map and will need balanced TOH maps as guidelines. This will be one big piece of good work to get the generator to be able to do these things.
Also you would have to be VERY specific in what you would like to see in the map thatīs gonna be created, like do both players need the same land? Very balanced map are better to be made then generated. You can not tell a generator precisely what you would like to see. (Well you can tell em, but he wonīt hear ya  )
Conclusion: The generator would become way to complicated and probably VERY large in size. Also you would have to be very precise. I donīt think the generator would have enough intelligence to give you what you want. Therefor player made maps will prolly still be best.
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Win or lose, it doesn't matter. The way it happens is what is important
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted July 16, 2001 05:10 PM |
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Archie is my Div-mate so I'll agree
Yeah Archie man, great idea!
I totaly agree wif u, couldn't agree more.
Altough Cheesus might be a bit (...) right that it's just a bit (.....) complicated to do.
Keep up the good work Buddy; remember: u the man! We all love u man, ur the best.
* what a total stupid idea; how the heck am I gonna win any rdm-maps against better players, when the settings are fair??  *
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.
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archdevil_666
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 16, 2001 07:47 PM |
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Reply to Chessus.
The way i figure, its not so much that the quality is poor in itself, its more that its variate to much depending on where u start on the map.
So if the current generator is using templates from premade maps surely there must be a way to take half of that template and mirror that onto the other half ?
Cause this is all it takes, anything else i will take as a bonus from 3do ;-) like being able to choose no cartographers and such, but this mirror thing will provide players with lots of maps with equal opportunity and this isent the case anymore with toh maps as some players no where to go with all heroes without looking at screen :-)
To me thats more like memory and i stopped playing that a long time ago :-) no i dont mean that. I too enjoy those maps as they are well made and often have nice strategies to perform, but its just it takes to long for new players to learn the ropes and have a chance against players who knows the tricks for each map ?
Maybe its not possible to make such a generator but hey maybe it is, in my mind surely there must be a way, the have done wondefull things before we know that.
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Cheesus
Known Hero
The Untouchable
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posted July 16, 2001 07:59 PM |
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if it would be possible
Sure it would be a good idea, i never said it wasn't
The thing just is, if the generator would be to hard to make and it will tear down the gameplay or something like that (less time for that since the generator would take a lot of time) i say i rather have good gameplay then a good generator.
If you don't like toh maps you can surely play random maps or you could make your own maps and upload them to the toh maps page. So that way new maps would come all the time and you can learn them just as easy as any other player. New maps are still made so you could learn them and be really good at them.
Then again if you don't like standard maps or they don't pose a challenge for you, the generator is the answer for you.
Ofcourse i agree with you, any improvement for the game would be welcome.
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Win or lose, it doesn't matter. The way it happens is what is important
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted July 17, 2001 12:51 AM |
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ok, short serious comment b4 I go to bed
I think the idea itself is good, but....
wif an exact mirror u 'll know opp's halve of the map. and if it's not an exact copy, there will be difference. And I doubt very much if rdm-map generator will be able to make a balanced map that way.
But hey, it's true: any good idea is welcome. Because too many people don't like rdms because the unfair settings. Altough i.m.o. that's the charm of it: u can win and loose against anyone. And after -let's say- 100 games, it kinda equals anyway.
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.
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thevinz
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 17, 2001 01:37 PM |
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Is this a dutch forum only archs is swedish!
I agree with kuma that when you play 10 maps I think its in general 6-4 or 5-5 in luck, so thats no problem, the problem is that most people cant play random because they arent good enough in Heroes3, so 1 surprise is killing them, and they think its badluck.
The random generator is ofcourse not perfect but with a few adjustments it will be fine for me.
* Its not always 6-4 because I lost archie 3 times, all bad luck ofcourse
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archdevil_666
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 17, 2001 02:39 PM |
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Reply to thevinz.
Hello all u dutch ppl dont beat me up now, but i cant agree with your ideas of luck bing 5-5 or 6-4 on any given map. on some of the maps i played on, me or my opponent found a hillfort and allready there i think luck has changed into more like 9-1.
But in the long term i too think that this luck scale will even out to something like u say (6-4). But it would be alot more ppl playing random if luck was always equal on every map and not 10 lucky possitions for each player.
Everybody like to win a tight close game more than to win when your opp hasent gotten started yet ?
Like for instant the last game u and i had vinz, great game with lots of power shifts and intriging strategies. :-)
well i hope all u none random playing ppl will agree with me ?
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted July 17, 2001 05:37 PM |
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Quote:
Hello all u dutch ppl dont beat me up now, but i cant agree with your ideas of luck bing 5-5 or 6-4 on any given map.
But in the long term i too think that this luck scale will even out to something like u say (6-4).
Ehhhh... what was the part u didn't agree on again, Arch?
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.
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archdevil_666
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 17, 2001 07:20 PM |
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Ehhhh... what was the part u didn't agree on again, Arch?
HI again captain, i am very sorry to disagree with u oh worthy captan sir, please excuse my disobedience :-) (how the hell do u insert this litte yellow bastards)
Well the part i dident agree to was the part where vinz said that the editor just needed some minor changes as he felt that luck was not a major factor on random maps (6-4) and like i said before if u read all the text (little yellow man again), i dont think this is the case, i think that luck is a major part of random maps (oh my god i cant belive íīm saying this, i am totaly undermining my ability as a homm3 player :-))but i do feel that if u play lots of random maps it will even out in the sence that i dont think that any player is luckier than the next guy, but for each map there is definetly circumstances that will provide him with better or worse possibilities to win the scenario ?
And i think thats why many ppl choose not to play random ?
Maybe it isent so but i feel it might be and therefor i would like to c an improvement in the future generator.
Thats all i was trying to say
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Cheesus
Known Hero
The Untouchable
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posted July 18, 2001 03:08 PM |
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luck in randoms
Iīve never really played a lot of randoms. All i hear all the time is randoms being so totally based on luck. Then why is it so many of the top-toh players (yes all 3 of you are ) are playing randoms so much?
I donīt get it, i really donīt. Arch mentioned he doesnīt know the maps very well. That should not be a problem, i like a fun game as much as the next man. If you want to practise maps, you could play them for fun and look at the saves how itīs done. Either way, i donīt get it
Hmmm, this sounds a bit of topic again (yes itīs always me going of topic hehe)
making a good random map generator would surely lure me into playing randoms a lot more. Itīs fun to play a map you donīt know, itīs just the generator we have now thatīs not good. There must be some way to make it right... but i guess thatīs up to 3DO.
sigh, i wanted to post a simple short reply (i always do) but i always end up thinking: oh yeah, donīt forget to mention this.. and oh yeah.....
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Win or lose, it doesn't matter. The way it happens is what is important
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archdevil_666
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 18, 2001 03:39 PM |
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to cheesus
He he well we all think in short exact phrases but describe them in writing is a different "story" for me too.
Thanks for supporting this idea at last
(that has better turn into a smiley when i finaly post this one)
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Frank
Promising
Known Hero
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posted July 18, 2001 04:32 PM |
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Random Maps
Random is what I enjoy playing most besides 2x2.
Not all random map settings are good though. Anyone can do quick combat 2nd week in utopias and get the air book. If you put the settings to the hardest possible then you have yourself a very even map. Even being blocked in starting castle for 10 days isn`t a setback as great as it seems even against great players. About the key elements of a random map, I have not seen ungarded hillfort, relics, level 5 scrolls, cartographers in more than 1/20 games. So random map generators aren`t that bad.
Besides hardest starting settings I think that no rulez whatsoever is the best way to go for random maps. If you remove some of the HOMM game elements like diplomacy, cartographers, scrolls, etc... you increase the overwhelming factor of the next HOMM element you didn`t rule out !
I think a mirror option would be good if it`s like this:
pq and not like this: qq
Do we know already that HOMM4 will have a random map generator?
- Frank
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Death
Known Hero
LEGEND OF HELL
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posted July 18, 2001 07:40 PM |
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Do we know already that HOMM4 will have a random map generator?
I think it haves one!!!(maybe)
There must be one!!!
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RUN IF YOU CAN!!!
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archdevil_666
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 18, 2001 09:41 PM |
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Well i agree death, there absolutely must be one !! even if it still works as it does today, it must be there. Maybe there wont be one untill the expansion pack arrives but thats ok as i think we will have our hands full with learning/enjoying the new game itself.
And as for everyones favorite settings for random maps i think we all know that this seem to varaite alot.
But i do agree with u Frank, i too think that if u exclude some of the skills by setting new rules, u r at the same time increasing the importance of something else.
Allthough a random map with this genarator on 200% is in my (humble) oppinion a situation that luck will be a major factor (good or bad).
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=6]Library Of Enlightenment[/url], to discuss Heroes 4, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=17]War Room Of Axeoth[/url].
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