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| Thread: Deploying to Iraq, Please advise. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted April 14, 2004 07:35 PM |
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Edited By: Consis on 14 Apr 2004
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I Concur
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Hamsi, hoping my last comment was not offensive, take it only in the interest I have that innocents should stop suffering. I know this is a loaded question, but what are your feelings about the connections between this current situation and the crusades? Do you find any symbolic or real significance in relation to that time? I just wondered because of your observations/connection between the idea of "knights" and this action somehow being "holy" allegedly in the minds of Americans.
I would most certainly like to know as well.
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Perhaps it would help people not so familiar with the historical connections between the Middle East and the West to hear it from someone closer to the region.
I wonder how "close" hamsi128 actually is. He sure talks about it like he's practically an Iraqi citizen. I greatly doubt that he is an Iraqi citizen.
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We need more representation from people from the region in this dialogue or else it will serve little realistic purpose, except for people to continue shouting into their own echochambers of speculation, myself included.
I agree. All this external argument does is hypothetically assume the thoughts and feelings of the true victims, the Iraqi people.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Peacemaker
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Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted April 14, 2004 07:50 PM |
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Consis: Yes, Turkey is considered to be part of the "Middle East." (FYI sometimes members include their countries in their profiles located at the bottom of each post.) The Middle East and the West have had a contentious relationship stretching back well over the last thousand years. However, if I say any more than that about the connections then I will once again be digressing to shouting into my own vast echo-chamber.
Along those lines, Hamsi, perhaps some clarification about your (Turkish) involvement particuarly in the historical lead-up to this mess would help Consis understand what was behind your reaction. You might explain the Kurdish connection among other things.
As for me, I have had just enough (one or two) bullets zing past my ear to understand the kind of lingering adrenaline effects that make one make comments like "shoot to kill" and "send 'em to hell." That, however, and a few pretty violent fistfights, are the extent of my experience in warfare. That being said, once the adrenaline rush passes we should all keep in mind as best we can that our words may effect others, whose perspective on this highly emotional, contentious thing is different than our own, more extremely than we expected.
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted April 14, 2004 09:19 PM |
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Edited By: Consis on 14 Apr 2004
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I Think I Understand a Little More Now
I found this news report about Istanbul:
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April 25, 2001
Web posted at: 10:43 AM EDT (1443 GMT)
MOSCOW, Russia -- Russia has lodged an official protest with Turkey over the pro-Chechen hostage drama in an Istanbul hotel.
A Foreign Ministry statement said Moscow had sent repeated warnings about what it described as extremist groups based in Turkey, Reuters reported.
The protest came as a bomb exploded in a police building in Russia's breakaway republic of Chechnya, killing six policemen and wounding five others, the Associated Press said.
Thirteen gunmen denouncing Russia's 19-month-old military campaign in Chechnya were detained by Turkish police on Monday in connection with the siege at the central Istanbul Swissotel.
The gunmen peacefully surrendered and released the 120 hostages they had held overnight At least four Russians had been among the hostages.
Moscow had "more than once drawn the attention of Turkish officials to the possibility of such an act by extremist persons and groups on Turkish territory, who provide various forms of support to Chechen terrorists," the ministry statement said on Wednesday.
The ministry called on Turkey to take "decisive steps" to punish criminal groups whose actions could "negatively affect the development of bilateral relations between Russia and Turkey."
Rebel ambushes
The statement said the hostage incident had caused serious concerns and called on Turkey to take all necessary steps to ensure the safety of Russians visiting the country.
A spokesman for the Turkish foreign ministry in Ankara said it would be wrong to let the incident harm relations between the two countries.
"Issues that aren't directly related to bilateral ties shouldn't influence Turkish-Russian friendship. We believe neither country will benefit," the spokesman said.
Meanwhile, in Chechnya, investigators were sorting through the rubble of the two-story building housing a local Interior Ministry department following the 5:50 a.m. (0150 GMT) explosion in Gudermes, an aide to Kremlin spokesman Sergei Yastrzhembsky said.
Russian troops entered Chechnya in autumn 1999 after a series of bombings in three Russian cities that killed about 300 people, and after Chechnya-based rebels invaded a neighbouring Russian region.
Russian forces have established shaky control over Chechnya but its troops still die almost daily in rebel ambushes.
I think this helps me understand hamsi128's position a little more. I apologize for attacking your position. I can understand your opinion a bit more after reading this article. You have a valid point.  Sorry
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 15, 2004 01:06 AM |
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Sorry to post this before hamsi answers, but i feel that you might have some wrong assumptions about Turkey, and since it's in my nearest region, i'll add a few lines of comment, which i'm sure hamsi will support.
Turkey, although geographically more closely to the Middle East than Europe, is after all a European country. It has little in common with the Middle Eastern countries, apart from the historical and religious background.
It's a modern democratic secular country with laws and mentality much closer to the European than Middle Eastern. It's a Balkan country, and most probably a future member of the EU.
That however, doesn't make hamsi's perpective on these things similar to yours (or mine probably), and he has more insight on Iraq, a possibility provided by geographical location at least.
Also, I'd sure like to know what kind of conclusions Consis formed from that document.
(before all of you get all over me: I "dare" to be his spokesman because there are many Turks in my country and coz I've read and seen probably a lot more about Turkey than you.)
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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redhawk
Known Hero
Gaurdian Supreme
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posted April 15, 2004 06:49 AM |
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Peacemaker, glad to have you post on this thread it has been awile, I missed your imagine us all here together thread. I am happy that you understood my Question I was beginning to think that I had not worded it well enough, nothing against my fellow heroes here, it just seems to have gotten lost though I do like hearing everyones opinion just as long as they stay off the cowboy stuff.LOL.
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It's better to burn out, Than fade away !!!!!!!!
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hamsi128
Promising
Supreme Hero
tosser tavern owner
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posted April 15, 2004 07:48 PM |
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i read all posts friends... all i can say that i fighted during 8 months in the mountains against terrorists and i entered to iraq to destroy their (pkk) basement 3 times...
i have my mind and eyes... i saw some ammunitions that our ''allies'' sent to terrorists... i have the risk to fight against also versus arabes if turkish governement doesnt rejected usa proposal to attack iraq from north..
all i can say is that for 1 second imagine you are hamsi128... after surviving an ambush you find an ally documents and ammunitions from corpses ... what you ll think ?
... when you play with fire , there is always risk... usa politics will learn this..
regards,
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quoting my post = bullet in your head
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redhawk
Known Hero
Gaurdian Supreme
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posted April 16, 2004 05:06 PM |
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Hamsi, I understand that you feel betrayed, I have felt the same way. You need to know that things are not always as they seem when foriegn governments are involved. I personally feel for the kurds in northern Iraq, But I cannot support anyone who commits acts of terror against civillians and innocent people. Hamsi, you are closer than any other and everyone needs to appreciate your viewpoint, I know that I do.Just keep an open mind and be objective in what you convey to others so all can get A fair view of the situation over there.
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It's better to burn out, Than fade away !!!!!!!!
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted April 16, 2004 05:48 PM |
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Hamsi, I for one would be eager to hear more about the location and nature of your military engagement, if you can talk about it, as well as your feelings about how Turkey fits into the picture. One of the problems over here and everywhere is people not having first-hand information from individuals in the thick of things, which is a primary reason why our perspectives differ so radically. As long as we rely on media, which at best focuses on the larger picture of national entities, there will continue to be misunderstandings. It saddens me that all of you are clearly good men and women with concern in your hearts, but that the lack of this kind of information exchange leads to people becoming angered at one another despite that concern.
redhawk, sorry to remain off topic. Has your original question been answered sufficiently yet?
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redhawk
Known Hero
Gaurdian Supreme
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posted April 17, 2004 07:31 AM |
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I have some good ideas for staying connected, it all depends on were i'm stationed and connection points. And its okay to remain off topic, I just don't want it to turn into another wild west show!, If you catch my drift.
To update all of you, I get my orders for Iraq within the next two weeks. I will go to active duty around the first week in june. Then its of to the mid west for training. I will be in Iraq this fall tentitively. hopefully things get better and I won't be there long. will try to keep in touch as much as possible while i'm gone.
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It's better to burn out, Than fade away !!!!!!!!
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted May 07, 2004 09:17 AM |
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@svarog
I doubt that Turkey will be admitted in UE. Besides it's religeous state, witch, let's face it, is treated by the UE officials more like a political side of the problem, the country is not even ENTIRELY situated in europe, geographically speaking. Plus, after SO many (poor or less poor) countries have joined up with UE (just remember Greece and the total colapse of the EURO after it joined), i don't think they will gladly put another nail to their coffin by recieving some other low quality countries (mine included) to the union.
@redhawk
After reading this thread, it is safe to assume that you will share with us some insight about iraq (of course, after you go there and IF you happen to find a net connection among those destroyed buildings ), because none of the people here have managed to sustain the iraqian side in this debate.
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redhawk
Known Hero
Gaurdian Supreme
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posted May 07, 2004 09:36 AM |
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I will be extremly limited on what I will be able to say but I will try at least to give you a picture of how things are for the people and if it is getting better. but then again because of being a soldier I may not be aloud to say anything at all.
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It's better to burn out, Than fade away !!!!!!!!
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dale
Known Hero
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posted May 07, 2004 09:46 AM |
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Quote:
I appreciate the imput so far, but most of you missed the topic. it was asking for help on staying connected to the net.
It might depend on exactly where you are stationed. My son is stationed with 1st Armored Div at the Bagdhad Airport. He has frequent access to computers for email back home -- perhaps work computers, but he has also mentioned internet cafe type arrangements.
Telephone access is an iffy thing -- but phone cards can be purchased in the states that can get used from over there. Note that pre-paid phone cards can vary tremendously in price. The best deal we have found is the ATT prepaid purchased at Sam's Club for just under 3 cents per minute (1200+ minutes on the card to start). Local grocery stores can be 10 to 20 cents per minute on cards with 250 or 100 minutes on them. Actually, 1200 minutes listed on the card is really 1200 domestic minutes which is 100 Iraqi minutes. Even the ratio varies from one phone card provider to another.
Stay safe.
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Grey Beards of the world, Unite :-}}
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted May 07, 2004 05:30 PM |
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Hello dale!
--You say your son is stationed at Baghdad airport? And say, is that avatar an actual picture of you?
If so, then I rejoice, for the day has finally arrived when we have a member who appears to be at least a little older than myself!!!!!
HOORAY!
P.S. Seriously, we all hope your son stays safe over there.
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 07, 2004 07:04 PM |
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Sorry to be off topic
Doom,
Quote:
I doubt that Turkey will be admitted in UE. Besides it's religeous state, witch, let's face it, is treated by the UE officials more like a political side of the problem, the country is not even ENTIRELY situated in europe, geographically speaking. Plus, after SO many (poor or less poor) countries have joined up with UE (just remember Greece and the total colapse of the EURO after it joined), i don't think they will gladly put another nail to their coffin by recieving some other low quality countries (mine included) to the union.
Hey, this is full of stuff that I don't agree with.
Turkey is not a religious state. In fact religion is more seperated from state there than in Greece, I'd say.
The fear some European officials have about Turkey (with islam as dominant religion) is not at all justified and you're right - it is considered a political "problem", unfortunately. Some Turks might be right to cinsider Europe a Christian club.
Geography doesn't matter. Europe is about democracy, tolerance and rule of law. Cyprus is more distant than Turkey for that matter.
WHat coffin?! What collapse of Euro? (when it's stronger than ever) How is Greece poor and what connection does it have with colapse of any kind? Nonsense.
Please, if we are to continue this discussion, let's do it in the Europe thread I opened. DOn't post here anymore about this problem.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted May 07, 2004 08:57 PM |
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Impractical And Impossible
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Turkey is not a religious state.
How does this statement logically coincide with:
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The fear some European officials have about Turkey (with islam as dominant religion) is not at all justified and you're right - it is considered a political "problem", unfortunately.
.....this statement?
Furthermore, China and North Korea are the only "non-religious-state"(s) in the entire world. Good old 'communism' prevents any governmentally accepted religious establisments from existing there.
Ever heard of the Dalai Lama? I heard he once lived in China.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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hamsi128
Promising
Supreme Hero
tosser tavern owner
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posted May 07, 2004 09:28 PM |
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forget it svarog
peeple tossing around without knowing anything... geogragycally or not i dont want that turkey enter UE lol.. it will be disaster for us ... its better to be in the middleeast and using big countries ambitions to our interests... look at cyprus lol after 20 years of ambargo... thanks to usa many problems will solve in cyprus... somehow i think that they want a base there  ... nice place, island on east mediterranee close to israel and and close to oil countries
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quoting my post = bullet in your head
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dale
Known Hero
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posted May 07, 2004 09:48 PM |
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Quote:
Hello dale!
--You say your son is stationed at Baghdad airport? And say, is that avatar an actual picture of you?
Yep -- and the avatar is pretty close-- white beard and all, although it is one of the standard ones found on the message board.
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P.S. Seriously, we all hope your son stays safe over there.
As do his mother and I, every day.
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Grey Beards of the world, Unite :-}}
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AzureMajesty
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Adventuring Hero
Gaea Mother Earth
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posted May 07, 2004 10:49 PM |
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redhawk
Known Hero
Gaurdian Supreme
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posted May 09, 2004 05:07 PM |
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Thanks for the link Azuremajesty, it was helpful. And I will be thinking of all of you will i'm over there.I have become A better person for knowing all of you, and your opinions and thoughts rate high in my mind and in my heart.
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It's better to burn out, Than fade away !!!!!!!!
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