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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: How do the logistics and pathfinding skills work exactly?
Thread: How do the logistics and pathfinding skills work exactly? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted December 06, 2004 12:29 PM

still haven't answer my question..what is a movement point?If the hero with a speed 3 creature on moves as much as one with a 4 speed creature how can you tell that he has 1560 movement points? What do theese points signify?
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted December 06, 2004 01:20 PM

Make the same test with these 2 heroes and the speed 3 and 4 units on a road. Then u will see, the hero with the speed 4 unit will travel further. Coz there, one step only costs 50 movementpoints instead of 100. So the one with 1560 could travel 1 step further and would still have 10 points left (for nothing though...).
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted December 07, 2004 06:31 PM
Edited By: tigris on 8 Dec 2004

silly question

here's something i'm curious about and i won't be able to test for a couple of days now:
how does sir mulich fit into this?Is his special regarded as an artifact and doesn't matter in the hero's movement calculation, or...??
edit@xarfax
Sorry, i read Angelito's translation of your original post at that time and the following exlpanations but i've must have forgotten when i read the last page of the thread.
@angelitolease leave this posted for 2 days, so xarfax can see the edit, then delete this useless spam.Sorry for this, it won't happen again!

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greek_god_su...
greek_god_superman


Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
posted December 07, 2004 06:49 PM
Edited By: greek_god_superman on 7 Dec 2004

Mullichīs +2 to combat speed doesnīt affect his movement points in adventure map, if I recall correctly.
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 08, 2004 11:30 AM

Quote:

I hope this isn't entirely useless...



It is :-(

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted December 08, 2004 03:17 PM

i don't want to go oftopic here and i don't want to start any arguments either, but it seems some guys just have to pic on somebody.
@csarmi: I can understand calling my conflux tactic week, maybe it is, but it's the best i could do.Belive it or not i've really put some time and heart into those...****ups(as you see them).When i first started that thread i was expecting other more skilled players to post there aswell, instead people like you regard it like a homework from your fiendly n00b here...
"Tigris please corect the tactics and the pics.."I realize i still have a lot to learn about the game and maybe i should't have dare to post something like that. Still i did it! What now? Are you going to put me against a wall and shoot me?So what if is poor tactics? I did the best i could, if you feel you can do better, please contribue to the thread aswell, and i mean really contribue, not just give some elusive hints and some more homework for the lazy bum that hasn't done his previous task right.
  What i don't understand is who gives you the right to rate a post as useless.If you don't feel it's interesting,don't read it, if a mod thinks it's useless he'll delete it. So imho that's just low...
@xarfax 111: I thought about the fact that i have chosen the most favourable conditions for the fights(E.G.starting with gretchin, geting hack as second hero),still as you noticed i haven't used not a single unit from the third hero from the tavern, so at that time i thought it was fair enough.About the fact that hack is changing from male to female and back this is due to the fact that i edited a map and had 8 heroes with the same army checking 8 crypts.As i've explained at that time, the goblins and rocs could kill a variable number of vamps,so i took the pic from another fight where i faced the worse case scenario(most vampires remaining).
As for the fact that you got mad cos "i haven't done my homework" before writing in this thread it was just an honest mistake(i read the pages 1-2 couple of days ago and only the last few replies before posting that). I don't understand why you had to react like that...
c ya all!
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted December 08, 2004 03:55 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 8 Dec 2004

It's kind of off topic here, but here you go. If you post something, you become responsible for your post. It's not just "I post some blablabla (insert incorrect info here)". When you do that, you waste other people's time and take away space in the forum (on the first pages) from worthy posts.

Now if you post something that sounds like a good idea, but is painful to read, that's a problem. When you post incorrect info in the same thread with not so great or maybe even bad advices, that's another one too. I did not just call your strategy weak: I also told why it is weak and how to make it better.

Here's the last thing: once you have posted something, you have to let it go. If someone criticizes it, he does so with that post.

I do have my opinion about you, but no one cares so I keep it mine ok?

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted December 08, 2004 07:22 PM

Quote:
@xarfax 111: I thought about the fact that i have chosen the most favourable conditions for the fights(E.G.starting with gretchin, geting hack as second hero),....


Hi tigris, if describe a situation when u need especially gretchin, then write it in your thread.. as simple as that.

Quote:
. I don't understand why you had to react like that...


My english is poor, therefore it sounds rough and technical. I just wanted to say, that the advice u did give to others, doesnt work. Thats maybe not important if u play against the computer, but if someone plays against a human with false advices he will lose ..as simple as that.

I want to point out that i really do appreciate your work, but that should also include "being corrected if wrong", just as Nebuka did last time, when i posted smthn wrong.

As for askin questions in a thread were u can find the correct answers already, just shows laziness and disrespect to other peeps work. Its more like "hey i know its somewhere in this long thread, but im too damned lazy to read" and therefore i need an idiot to find it for me. Unfortunately there is always someone stupid enough to repeat it for u.

Xarfax1


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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted December 08, 2004 09:30 PM
Edited By: angelito on 8 Dec 2004

I really understand both sides here.

But again we come to the same conclusion. Itīs how you talk to someone. If you would take part in a seminar of "communication", you would learn, that the best strategy, to start a conversation is to use a positive introduction.

To start a post with the sentence "Your tactic is weak...." doesnīt fit very well in that rule...

Why donīt u start the post (like Xarfax mentioned in his last post) with something like "Nice work tigris,.......... let me give you some advice which could help even more to kill those full crypts without much losses" ?

That would sound much friendlier, you still can show the better strategy, the newbie isnīt upset that fast, and you still get him motivated to carry on his work.

That doesnīt mean we canīt make any jokes about funny strategies which probably wouldnīt work in onlinegames, but the main mood should perhaps be a bit more supportive...
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted December 27, 2005 11:10 AM

Quote:

The movement calculation is made before every single step!!


Examples:

If u end a turn on grass with 1 pikeman and 1 angel, u will get a movement of 15 tiles at the start of next turn.
If next turn starts, and u dismiss this 1 pikeman then, u will have 20 tiles movement for this turn!!
Same goes if u u travel 10 tiles with this army and dismiss the pikeman now, u no longer have 5 tiles rest, but 10 tiles!

Same goes with terrain panalties. U can make new strategies for chaining your troops now...
On the start of my turn, my hero had 1 pikeman on swamp terrain (gives 8 tiles movement). After 5 steps, terrain changed to snow and a second hero of mine stood there with 1 gremlin. Now this second hero "changed" army with the first one. And instead of the 3 left tiles, he had 6 tiles for traveling now!




@Revived:

These days i started a 2vs2 game on the zone.For me, these games are always a bless, because i always get to learn something new watching my ally make his moves.
This particular games though, my ally was a newcomer to online games, playing fortress in a native all random xl Jebus.
At one time, he released a hero frm prison and dismissed him at end turn to follow the "natives" rules.He took that hero's army though:14 pikemen and 3 griffins.I tried to use my limited knoledge on this matter of terrain penalty and tried to "whisper" him to dismiss the castle dreatures also, especially as he was running on the map with hidras by now.
I don't know if my english was bad or maybe for another unknown reason, but after 10-15 min of explanations, that guy asks me:"Should i dismiss the griffins aswell, or only the pikemen?".
Bottom line, we decided to find a replacement for this guy.So i got a new ally.This guy has over 100 online games, but guess what?He gave one griffin to 3 of his scouts (for speed porposes, he said).

To confirm i was right not to mock these guys, i got punked myself last might in a game against durell, because of this exact paragraph i quoted.We played Jebus i was stronghold and had 7 hives in my area.So i dedicated my week 2 to hit those and some tresureries/banks.I planned my chain with only scouts wearing one goblin, but when i gave one of then the wiverns.....( whaaam. My chain was broken.
So i tought it would be a good ideea to dig this out, hopefully someone will have something to learn aswelll.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted December 27, 2005 04:05 PM

Quote:
....but guess what?He gave one griffin to 3 of his scouts (for speed porposes, he said)....


As long as he doesnīt move with the griffins on, he wonīt get any penalty. So it is true, he has more movementpoints on (the start of) the next day, but that wonīt help if he doesnīt change his unit with a native one before he starts to walk (ride).
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted December 28, 2005 09:59 AM

this was confusing at first, but when looking careful at the formula it makes sense.

tried it myself: tazar ended his turn with only an angel on swamp and mirlanda had only a lizzardman also on swamp.Next turn i had korbc give tazar 1 lizzard too instead of the angel, and he moved 20 tiles(movement for speed 18), whereas mirlanda moved only 15(movement fos speed 4).
Nice trick that was entirely new to me.
Thanx Dirk!

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Demarest
Demarest


Known Hero
posted April 02, 2007 08:50 AM

bump

This is too good a thread to not be more current. That, and I have an on-topic question

Moving on grass costs 100 points. Moving on a dirt road costs 75 points. Yeah, when moving from grass to grass or dirt road to dirt road, and in a cardinal direction. What if you're moving FROM grass TO a dirt road? Does it cost 100 because you moved FROM grass, or 75 because you're moving TO a dirt road?

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Barbarian2006
Barbarian2006

Tavern Dweller
posted April 03, 2007 05:58 PM
Edited by Barbarian2006 at 18:02, 03 Apr 2007.

Quote:
Wishfully awaited, the "Explanation Series" continue here  

4 types of terrain lower the movement points

rough (stronghold) movementpoints cost 125%
sand (desert) movementpoints cost 150%
snow (tower) movementpoints cost 150%
swamp (fortress) movementpoints cost 175%

Example:
A hero with a pikeman on swamp has only 8 movementpoints (15/1.75)
A hero with an angel on swamp has only 11 movementpoints (20/1.75)
That means, a hero with a gnoll on swamp (native) has 15 tiles movement and has 4 more than the other one with the angel..

Hope this removed some ambiguities  


This need updating:

On rough(stronghold) you loose only 1/5 of your movement points.
On sand(desert) you loose only 1/3 of your movement points.
On snow(tower) you loose only 1/3 of your movement points.
On swamp(fortress) you loose only 45% of your movement.

Maybe it seems ridiculous for you but I was also surprised when i tested terrains.
On swamp your Pikemen will loose 6.75=7 movement points.
On swamp Angel will loose 0.45*20=9 movement points and move 11 movement points.

On snow upg.Centaurs loose 1/3*18=6 and move 12 movement points.
On snow Gold Dragons loose 6.66=7 and move 13 movement points.
On swamp Gold Dragons loose 9 points which is 45% of 20 movements!!!




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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 03, 2007 06:31 PM

Well if something costs 125%, you only get 4/5 of what you would otherwise get; you lose 1/5. E.g. if you have 500 movement points you could move 5 tiles (not in a diagonal direction) on normal terrain. On a terrain where movement cost 125, i.e. 125 points, you can may only move 4 tiles which equals a loss of 1/5.

Notice that movement points is measured as described on page two, moving 1 tile on normal terrain requires 100 movement points if you move vertically or horizontally. In a diagonal direction it requires about 1.4 times as many points.

Picking up resources and so on also counts as moving one full tile.

I tested a few things concerning movement a while ago and came upon a peculiar situation:



The wizard can move just two tiles, but not two in a diagonal direction. However if I move him one tile at a time starting with direction '9' first he can't move any more; but if he moves in direction '6' first he can move in direction '9' afterwards following the route as on the image. Apparently the two routes with the same 'length' won't give the same result.
I don't remember the details (as which skills and such the hero had) but I guess it due to the diagonal movement.
Of course, this is not important, I just found it odd.
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 03, 2007 06:37 PM
Edited by angelito at 18:38, 03 Apr 2007.

Maybe you missinterpreted my post a bit?

Quote:
rough (stronghold) movementpoints cost 125%

Means:
- 1 movement tile does not cost 100 but 125
- If you normaly have 20 movement tiles, you will have 16 on rough (20/1,25)
- If you have 16 tiles now, and had 20 before, this is a reduction of 20% (or 1/5) (16/20)

Quote:
snow (tower) movementpoints cost 150%

Means:
- 1 movement tile does not cost 100 but 150
- If you normaly have 20 movement tiles, you will have 13 on snow (20/1,5)
- If you have 13 tiles now, and had 20 before, this is a reduction of 33% (or 1/3) (13,333/20)

Quote:
swamp (fortress) movementpoints cost 175%

Means:
- 1 movement tile does not cost 100 but 175
- If you normaly have 20 movement tiles, you will have 11 on swamp (20/1,75)
- If you have 11 tiles now, and had 20 before, this is a reduction of 43% (11,4/20)
- If you have 8 tiles now, and had 15 before, this is a reduction of 43% (11,4/20)


Loosing 1/5 of his movement points is the same as "a movement costs 125%"

Quote:
A hero with a pikeman on swamp has only 8 movementpoints (15/1.75)

is the same as
Quote:
On swamp your Pikemen will loose 6.75=7 movement points.



Hope this cleared things up.
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Barbarian2006
Barbarian2006

Tavern Dweller
posted April 03, 2007 10:19 PM

Now everything is clear both methods are correct.
Telling the truth I prefer to use my calculation because it easily allow me to find out how much movements I will loose on different terrains and whether it is profitable to move  hero with fast unit or slower native especially when I have only one hero by my main and can not afford to transfer army frequently to move always with native and end the turn with the fastest.

Ecoris you are right I also nociced that it is more profitable not to run diagonally first and especially not to take resources diagonally. Profit is weak but always.

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Demarest
Demarest


Known Hero
posted April 04, 2007 08:35 AM

So... how about an answer to my question then? Or does nobody know?

Since it was mentioned that picking stuff up counts as a tile, what is the cost if you were on a dirt road, but the item was on grass? 75 or 100?

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 04, 2007 09:57 AM

The tile u r aiming at counts. Be it "collecting", "moving" or "fighting". You will always have the same terrain on battlefield the defender was standing on when getting attacked (neutral monsters or opponent hero).
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Demarest
Demarest


Known Hero
posted April 04, 2007 02:46 PM

Thank you

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