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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: H3 skill learning percentage
Thread: H3 skill learning percentage This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
megamankev
megamankev

Tavern Dweller
posted July 20, 2004 07:16 AM

H3 skill learning percentage

Where can I find a breakdown for the heroes' chances to learn certain skills? I think mmportal used to have it but their H3 site went kaboom.

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Maniak
Maniak


Adventuring Hero
posted July 20, 2004 02:04 PM

there was a post about that VERY same thing not long ago...

here is what you want

http://h3.heroes.net.pl/strategie.htm

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MagniBronzeb...
MagniBronzebeard


Adventuring Hero
posted July 21, 2004 01:05 AM

Thanks! I waited for ages to have that list. I guess, it don't depends on individual hero (for example, Kyrre should have bigger percentage to learn logistic).
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Master_Zhuge...
Master_Zhuge_Liang


Hired Hero
posted July 21, 2004 01:14 AM

Hmmm, what language is that site on?   I can't understand a word...
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Maniak
Maniak


Adventuring Hero
posted July 21, 2004 02:08 PM

I believe I was told it was polish... and I'm sure u can understand most of it... The most interesting part being the numbers.

If u want I translated a small part of it in english in excel format. The skill(attack, defense, spell power, knowledge) progress and the secondary skill chances to learn.

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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted July 21, 2004 03:34 PM

Why, yes, it is in Polish, and I happen to speak that language very well
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skwerly
skwerly


Hired Hero
posted July 21, 2004 04:05 PM

The WayBack Machine Strikes Again!


Just because a site is dead doesn't mean you can't browse it.

Is this what you were looking for?

http://web.archive.org/web/20030430064124/www.mmportals.com/h3/h3skillstable.html

As for that Polish site Maniak gave you, try this online translator:

http://www.translation-guide.com/free_online_translations.htm

It's like Altavista's Babel Fish with a few more languages, including Polish.  The translations are horrible, but that's normal with word-for-word translators.

skwerly

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Maniak
Maniak


Adventuring Hero
posted July 21, 2004 06:08 PM

Somehow Skerly and my table don't have exactly the same numbers, not sure which to believe... either way, the general look of it is the same.

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted July 21, 2004 07:30 PM

the exact numbers:


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Maniak
Maniak


Adventuring Hero
posted July 21, 2004 07:43 PM

If Xarfax is correct, then I believe my table is the correct one.

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draco
draco


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 21, 2004 07:50 PM

I was always under the impression your specialty affected your odds of getting a skill.

i.e. if you made a custom map with no skills, and you set your hero to logistics skill, more then likely you would be offered logistics

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Maniak
Maniak


Adventuring Hero
posted July 21, 2004 08:38 PM

I'm not quite sure of what ur saying Draco, but the tables there are sayingt he chances of being offered a new skill.

Like if you have expert wisdom and basic or advanced logistic ONLY, then when you will level, you will AUTOMATICALLY be offered the next level of logistic and a random skill depending on your hero type. Now if you are expert in all skill you have then, u will be offered 2 random new skills according the charts you have here.

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draco
draco


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 21, 2004 08:55 PM

Quote:
I was always under the impression your specialty affected your odds of getting a skill.

i.e. if you made a custom map with no skills, and you set your hero to logistics skill, more then likely you would be offered logistics


ok this may clear up what i meant

lets say your hero was gunner (logistics bonus)

and he did NOT have logistics (because you made the map and did not give him logistics)

when you gained a level (assuming you have either no skills whatsoever or expert in all skills)

you will be offered 2 skills.

I was under the impression you would be offered logistics, more times then any other skill.

note: i hit enter alot so it may not look nice, to compensate for the big picture up there

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Maniak
Maniak


Adventuring Hero
posted July 21, 2004 09:02 PM

newp, in your example, Gunnar wouldn't have more chances to get log... tho as an overlord he gets very good chances to get it.

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted November 17, 2004 10:06 AM

Quote:
the exact numbers:



i foud this while peeking in the library, but i don't fully understand it's meaning. can anyone be a little more specific?
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Conan
Conan


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted November 17, 2004 07:45 PM

Xarfax...

Or any other Vets who might know...

Do those chances of getting offered a secondary skill vary with the previous choice of skill selection?
For example:
If you are offered Wisdom or amorer... you pick wisdom.

Will that affect the next skill that will be offered? will you have more chances of getting more magic skills even if you are a might?

Thanks!
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG

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Conan
Conan


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted November 17, 2004 07:49 PM

Quote:
i foud this while peeking in the library, but i don't fully understand it's meaning. can anyone be a little more specific?


10 is the best chance to get the skill (100%) of times it will be offered or you will have it. (Like necromancy for the D Night)
The lower the numbers get, the lower your chances of getting that skill are.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG

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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted November 19, 2004 05:18 AM

By looking at the chart, it looks like the numbers are the chance out of 112 for that skill to be offered. Each row adds up to 112. There are 28 skills and 112=28*4. So if every skill had a value of 4, they would all have exactly the same chance of coming up. In other words, if the numbers were all 4, it would be a completely random pick.

The way to look at the chart is to compare two skills. For example with knight, navigation (8) is twice as likely to be offered as pathfinding (4). And navigation is four times as likely to be offered as mysticism (2).

I can only guess about the program code, but it's likely something like this. Each hero type has a "look up table" (LUT). The table would have all the numbers from 1-112 in it with groups of numbers representing each skill. Just for an example, take the knight skills of Leadership (10), Wisdom (3), Archery (5) and Fire Magic (1).

Leadership is the numbers 1-10
Wisdom is 11-13
Archery is 14-18
Fire is 19

The comp then picks a random number between 1-112 (it rolls a 112-sided dice). It goes to the LUT and checks it. If the number it picked is between 1-10, then Leadership is offered. Between 11-13, Wisdom is offered, etc. If the skill is already at expert, it just picks a new number and tries again.

I ran some tests and it appears that this same chart is not only used to pick NEW skills, but also to pick the EXISTING skill it offers. The comp would go through this process twice, once to pick the existing skill and a second time to pick a new skill. For an existing skill it would have to keep doing it several times until it came up with an existing skill.

Again take knight for example. All knights start with Leadership (10) and one other skill.  Orin, Valeska, Edric and Christian have the second skills of Archery (5), Armorer (5) and Artillery (5). The second skills for Sylvia, Sorsha and Tyrus are Navigation (8), Offense (7) and Tactics (7).

I put these guys next to a bunch of learning stones and did a total of 350 level ups to level 2. The first four heroes have a (10) skill and a (5) skill. So you would expect Leadership to show up twice as often as their second skill. This turned out to be approximately true. The next three should have the ratios 10:8 and 10:7. This was also approximately true.

It's been suggested that the odds of a skill being offered may depend on which skills have already been picked at lower levels. I would be surprised if this was true, but it's possible. The chart posted above already has 504 entries (28 skills * 18 hero types). Could you imagine how complex it would get if this chart had to be adjusted depending on which skills had been already selected? My guess is that the odds of a knight getting Wisdom are always 3:112 no matter what level or what has been picked in the past.
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Shenjairo
Shenjairo


Known Hero
Simsalabim
posted November 19, 2004 07:55 AM

Actually I've done some tests on that, after playing on campaigns and getting heroes that really aren't good because of bad luck with skills. The real skill selection for your hero is done when you start a map and then you can just go down different trees. Just finished a very crude example where I gave a hero 9999 azure dragons and set up an opposing army of 4000 ogre magi so they leveled up to level 25. It's done for every hero, even those deep in the tavern and it doesn't seem to matter if you buy them out the first week or the third month, if you make the same choices they will get the same offers on level up. Restart the scenario and they will get offered different things. For example I started with Elleshar, I made a save and attacked. Picked things on this round based on that I want to max out skills first.

level 2. Advanced Wisdom - Basic Earth, chose wisdom
3. Advanced Int - Basic Scholar, chose int
4. Exp int - pathfinding, chose int
5. Exp wis - earth, chose wis
6. basic earth - basic archery
7. earth - armorer
8. earth - navigation
9. diplomacy - scholar
10. diplomacy - armorer
11. diplomacy - water magic
12. resistance - mysticism
13. resistance - offense
13. resistance - water magic
14. luck - ballistics
15. luck - water magic
16. luck - eagle eye
17. logistics - scholar
18. logistics - water magic
19. logistics - eagle eye
20. estates - eagle eye
21. advanced estates
22. expert estates
23. maxed out

I tried this at different times when it was from the same save, if it was the first day, if he had gotten experience from somewhere else, if others had leveled up, if things had been built in town or not. If choosing the same path he always got the same offers. When choosing another path he would always get another set of skills offered to him. Result was the same for Dace bought on day 1 that was 4 heroes inside the tavern and Dace bought on month 3 week 3 (when I finally got him offered again after reloading).

Restarting the map gives the heroes a new selection, so it all seems to be calculated that second when you start up the map. Don't know if this is known or not, and the test isn't that big, but it seems to be like this.
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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted November 19, 2004 07:55 AM

More fun with numbers.

I put the odds chart in Excel and played around with it.

Might heroes only

Logistics + Earth  (Group 1)

13 Demonic
11 Overlord
11 Beastmaster
11 Planeswalker
10 Barbarian
09 Alchemist
09 Death Knight
08 Ranger
07 Knight


Group 1 + Group 2  (Group 2 = Offense + Armorer)

28 Demonic
26 Barbarian
26 Beastmaster
25 Overlord
25 Planeswalker
23 Alchemist
21 Ranger
21 Death Knight
19 Knight


Now lets get tricky

3*(Group 1) + 2*(Group 2) + 1*(Group 3)
(Group 3 = Tactics + Wisdom + Archery + Air + Water + Res)

The air and water numbers are very small, so I put both in. The idea is to get only one of them. It doesn't change the order to leave one of them out.

94 Demonic
88 Barbarian
87 Overlord
86 Beastmaster
85 Planeswalker
81 Alchemist
79 Ranger
77 Death Knight
72 Knight


From that SUBTRACT Group 4
(Group 4 =Navigation, 1st Aid, Eagle, Mysticism, Learn, Sorcery, Luck and Estates)

All other skills not listed yet are neutral.

71 Demonic
70 Barbarian
66 Overlord
61 Beastmaster
60 Planeswalker
54 Ranger
52 Death Knight
50 Alchemist
44 Knight


Now let's get more tricky. I put the primary skill percentages from the manual in the spreadsheet.
I didn't have the Conflux numbers, so left out Planeswalker.

I added Att + Def for level 1-9.
I added Att + Def for level 10+.

I gave 50% more weight to level 1-9 than 10+. Then added them up.

For example Barbarian:
2*(Att 1-9 + Def 1-9) + (Att 10+ + Def 10+)=
2*(60+30) + (30+30) = 240

I wanted to give primary and secondary skills approx the same weight. The primary skill numbers were approx 3 times the secondary numbers. So I multiplied the last set of secondary numbers times 3.

Example Barbarian = 3*70 + 240 = 450


450 Barbarian
423 Beastmaster
408 Overlord
393 Demonic
382 Ranger
352 Knight
330 Alchemist
316 Death Knight

So it's Tazar vs Craig Hack. But we all knew that right?

This was all done just out of curiosity. If you're wondering about the skills I selected, here's how they got picked. I think everyone would agree with Group 1 & 2 Skills. With Group 3 skills I just copied and pasted skills as I saw them. I stopped when it filled a page because I didn't want to scroll....it's as simple as that. There are other skills which could have been added to Group 3. But with the low weight and small numbers for those skills, it probably wouldn't have changed the results much.

I left out Necromancy skill because I didn't know how to deal with it and keep it fair to the other towns. I left out Leadership to partially offset it. The results for Death Knight basically are his fighting skills if he were playing a non-necro town.

One last thing.

These are the PERCENTAGE chance of getting a skill from Group 1, 2 or 3.

47.3% Demonic
46.4% Barbarian
45.5% Overlord
44.6% Ranger
43.8% Beastmaster
43.8% Planeswalker
43.8% Alchemist
42.0% Death Knight
41.0% Knight

43.8% Battle Mage
34.8% Heretic
32.1% Cleric
32.1% Necromancer
30.4% Druid
29.5% Elementalist
26.8% Witch
25.9% Wizard
23.2% Warlock
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