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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Vampires and Necroes a little unbalanced?
Thread: Vampires and Necroes a little unbalanced? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
ArchMg
ArchMg

Tavern Dweller
posted June 19, 2004 06:13 PM

Vampires and Necroes a little unbalanced?

Could be me cause I am still a newb at the game but everytime I play and my friend is Necromancer he has so much vampires cause he has necromancy that adds like 3 to his army every battle and they not only absorb massive dmg to non mech/undead units but also have no ret. Honestly... are they really good or is it just me? ;/
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Asmodean
Asmodean


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
posted June 19, 2004 06:31 PM

There are ways around the vampire threat.

In no particular order:

1. Attack them with no retaliation units to weaken them.
2. Use your long range troops to devastate them before they get too close.
3. If you have them, use mechanical/elemental/undead troops to take their retaliation, then the vamps can't life drain them. Spells like fire-shield or retribution are useful here.
4. Spells, spells, spells! Create illusions to soak up retaliation, summon 10 wolves and send them to the vamps for the same effect. Direct damage spells like implosion or lightning can be good. Also Holy Word finally becomes useful. Curse/Weakness/Disrupting Ray - throw everything you got at them.

Really, vamps are nothing to worry about.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.

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ArchMg
ArchMg

Tavern Dweller
posted June 19, 2004 06:56 PM

Hmmm cool i never knew summons didn't get absorbed.. makes sense and all but i never tried it thx. Btw... Anyone know a site that lets me dl some good multiplayer maps for heroes 4 hahah. the ones that come wit original are limited.
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Asmodean
Asmodean


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
posted June 19, 2004 07:00 PM

Summons will still get absorbed. But if your just sending a few woves/leprechauns out, then the life drain won't amount to much.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.

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Lich_King
Lich_King


Honorable
Supreme Hero
posted June 20, 2004 11:13 PM

Or download Equilibris. It solves the Necromancy imbalance. You can choose units you want to rise. And Vampires can be summoned at 20th level and only few of them (usually 1-2) will be rised.
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TheRealDeal
TheRealDeal


Promising
Supreme Hero
Foobum* of Justice!
posted June 24, 2004 12:55 PM

Lich, that would be gay.. Vampires aren't hard at all. The only thing that i would call unbalanced would be the Cyclops, and he i'snt really a problem if you know what to do(and it isn't hard at all)
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*We all know the that Foobum is the class of all that is Cake.

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Ra2
Ra2


Adventuring Hero
The good doctor
posted July 01, 2004 12:36 PM

Ok, you guys should know that the vampires are probably the biggest threat from necromancers in H4. Their strenght (HP and defence), speed, bloodsucking-regenerating ability plus no-retaliation AND the fact that a necromancer will get LOTS of them through necromancy makes them formidable foes.
I have experience with vampires as I usually play wizard vs. necromancer.
You should not forget that playing against a human necromancer (I mean multiplayer against a necro) brings up other issues. To a necromancer, the vampire stack is the most important thing, only second to the main hero. Therefore he will protect and cast beneficial spells on them. For instance, an army with 2 heroes will probably have al least expert tactics + speed (lvl 1 nature spell, easy to get) + possibly an artifact that boosts speed. Maybe not the Helm of the commander but still.. At the beginning of the battle, the necromancer ussually casts the killer spell mass cancellation (takes away you immortality potion effect for heroes and other bonuses) and the general casts speed on the vampires. Then the devils strike, the mage chief (less defence, aka combat skill)is sure to fall...never to be seen again as the immortality potin is gone!!!; and the vampires hit the first line of defence. You must realize that with no hero, all the strategies you have mentioned before crumble..
So keep in mind that this is the basic necromancer strategy.

My personal strategy is to have 2 different heroes, a battle mage (grandmaster order + some combat +some scounting skill) and a general (grandmaster tactics + expert-master order +some combat skill) plus a genie stack, a titan stack, a mage stack, and two genies stacks (with one genie each) in the first row.
I MUST have the first move in the battle. If I catch the necro hero in my sight, I hipnotize him. If not, I can probably hypnotize the devils. If not, I cast mass slow.
The second hero will cast either forgetfulness (if there are some venoms around) or teleport (oh yeah) on the vampires. The genies (the big stack) attacks the hero/devils if they haven't been hypnotized yet, and the two single-genie stacks just slow or sing a song to some other troops.
This combo of spells/attacks ussually delivers a big blow to the necro attack capability.
If you can keep the devils hypnotized and the vampires safely teleported away, you're saved. All you have to do is to deliver an occasional ice bolt/magic
If not, your grandmaster magician will most likely get killed (pemanently if I may so speak) and the genie stack will be sure to follow.

So the issue here is often..who gets the first move. I have won 80% of the battles in which i had the first moved. The necro won about 90 %.
Luckily for me, I usually move first as the necro uses a lot if experience for his necromancy skill while I use none for my charm skill and devellop my leadership skill.

looong post
'till next time.. vae victus!


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balcough_dra...
balcough_dragons


Supreme Hero
unlucky? i want to pump you up
posted July 01, 2004 04:42 PM

just download mod and vamps suck
i would pick vemons hands down
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whos your daddy and what does he do?

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Vycka1234
Vycka1234


Known Hero
posted July 03, 2004 07:00 PM

I see problem about vampires solved ... well guy asked for maps try www.toheroes.com dont think its the best site, but at least some help.

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted July 05, 2004 11:41 PM

you should be using at least 4 heroes in the fight, man

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LordZXZX
LordZXZX


Famous Hero
Overfished
posted July 06, 2004 12:37 AM

if you have Disintegrate, use it on them and they cannot heal anymore.
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Gun
Gun

Tavern Dweller
posted July 06, 2004 05:51 PM

Equilibris

I found myself choosing OgreMagi and VenomSpawn path when i play Heroes4 in Equilibris version;

Ogre Magi now can:
1. Cast PowerDrain to negate creatures's specials like: ressurection, terror, summon ice demons. This spell [best casted with 1 splitted Ogre for maximum effectiveness] also restrain FaerieDragon, Genie, Magi, EvilSorceress, and of course, the magic hero from the opposing side, very very much.

2. Cast FirstStrike to the most powerful melee hitter in the group, which some of the time means casting it to themselves since their stat is souped up a bit in Equilibris.

3. Cast SpellShackle to hero that have three digit of mana and plan on using them ^_^


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maybe i'd be better on my own; it's easier for me to be alone...

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Gun
Gun

Tavern Dweller
posted July 06, 2004 06:10 PM

still Equlibris

Necromancy skill gets shot down so much that you can only produce 1-2 vampire per battle after your hero reach level 20. So you better off using VenomSpawns path instead, plus the fact that now VenomSpawn and Vampires have same logistic speed! Flyer that so slow that a Shooter can catch up with him...


But for Order faction, i still prefer Genies despite their effort to add more gold requirement to the dwelling. Create Illusions and Ice Bolt is still nastier than cerberi style attack of the improved Naga. Plus the 1 splitted genie can support the group with constant output of Song of Peaces for 8 rounds.



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maybe i'd be better on my own; it's easier for me to be alone...

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drlucifer
drlucifer


Adventuring Hero
The Surgeon of Death
posted July 10, 2004 07:38 PM

Agreed.  Genies make attacking seiges so much more bloodless.  Just create illusions of a nice defending tank, have it beat down the door, and then Ice Bolt anyone who comes to pick on it.  If I had a dollar for every castle- Castle, mind you- that I've captured with an Order army with no casulties, I'd have a much faster computer to play Heroes on.

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Doctors are not necessarily your friends.

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barbarian
barbarian


Famous Hero
posted July 10, 2004 11:25 PM
Edited By: barbarian on 11 Jul 2004

wow nice strategy lucifer with the genies there thanx really maybe i'l try it if I have the game but I don't have it now I did but not now I am waiting for heroes 5 and in the meantime I am playing heroes 3 and warcraft 3  mostly warcraft and doing some other stuff, like sleeping bathing eating and drinking so do you really think I got time to be playing heroes of might and magci 4 now no but thanx anyways good strategy I must say .
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It's optional.

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Ra2
Ra2


Adventuring Hero
The good doctor
posted July 12, 2004 09:28 AM
Edited By: ThE_HyDrA on 18 Jul 2004

Quote:
wow nice strategy lucifer with the genies there thanx really maybe i'l try it if I have the game but I don't have it now I did but not now I am waiting for heroes 5 and in the meantime I am playing heroes 3 and warcraft 3  mostly warcraft and doing some other stuff, like sleeping bathing eating and drinking so do you really think I got time to be playing heroes of might and magci 4 now no but thanx anyways good strategy I must say .


ok barbie, you can go to sleep now.
btw, if you don't play heroes4 anymore why the F*CK did you post here?

Edit by ThE_HyDrA: Such language is not needed here, please refrain from using it in the future. Thanks.

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recca_cool
recca_cool


Hired Hero
posted July 12, 2004 01:32 PM

Hello ^^ My first post in this forum, I hope I do not make mistakes

At the beginning, I'd like to say that vampires are indeed strong , but not what I would call formiabdle foe. So in this sence I would agree with TheRealDeal that the only imbalance in the game was in the cyclops

My reasoning is:

1- Vampires are strong, but if you have strong level IV mob (especially with no relatation) it is easy to take them down
2- Using strategies such as being mentioned by Asmodean  (summoning, using spells , etc) to attack first and disable their relation
3- Their gain is not really that much, especially at the advance level & in strong battels.

Also I'd like to add that (and it might be my personal preference) I find the venom are as powerful as vampires, if not more, and that is for the following reasons:

1- Non-melee attack , so no relatation.
2- At the beginning of the game, the poison is useful taking  down small preys (using fool around strategy). And when advancing it is extremely powerful (+100 from it will poision a geat deal of damanage)
3- One hit from it, to a not so-well prepared Hero will elimante it immeditaly & everybody knows how beneficial is that

Therefore, I'd like to conclude that it is just a matter of preference, and vampires are not really a big threat, rather I would say cyclops are a real threat in battle and they are extremely tough IMHO.

Ja ne~
ReCCa -.-

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barbarian
barbarian


Famous Hero
posted July 12, 2004 11:52 PM
Edited By: barbarian on 12 Jul 2004

Quote:
Quote:
wow nice strategy lucifer with the genies there thanx really maybe i'l try it if I have the game but I don't have it now I did but not now I am waiting for heroes 5 and in the meantime I am playing heroes 3 and warcraft 3  mostly warcraft and doing some other stuff, like sleeping bathing eating and drinking so do you really think I got time to be playing heroes of might and magci 4 now no but thanx anyways good strategy I must say .


ok barbie, you can go to sleep now.
btw, if you don't play heroes4 anymore why the F*CK did you post here?


why such anger so i made lots of smilys so you don't have to get mad
see i do it all the time dosen't seem to bother any1 else .
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It's optional.

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Xenophanes
Xenophanes


Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
posted July 15, 2004 10:48 PM
Edited By: Xenophanes on 15 Jul 2004

Quote:
if you don't play heroes4 anymore why the F*CK did you post here?


N00b. I haven't played Heroes IV for several months now; just Heroes III, and I'm posting here again after a long absence...

The Vampires are unbalanced in Heroes IV, I agree. They seem to be able to resurrect more of their dead when they attack than they used to be able to in Heroes III...
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<Dragons rule, Titans drool!>

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Ra2
Ra2


Adventuring Hero
The good doctor
posted July 16, 2004 12:15 PM

Quote:

N00b.

Don't say that.
I've been playing heroes since heroes1
That was in 1996.

Read barbarian's post to find out what my reaction was all about. I have nothing against not-playing-H4-and-posting, but I get pissed about people NOT playing , NOT having a real opinion, NOT saying something interesting and ontopic and STILL babblingaround. Maybe I'm not right to get pissed, but I do. mkay?

on topic: the vampire's ability to regenerate is more valuable in H4 than H3 because they are bigger in level.
H4: level 3/4  more HP, attach and defence
H3 level 4/7   less

when vamps attack weaker creatures like halflings or dwarves they are likely to deliver huge damage so they absorb more for their own regeneration.

I personally think vampires are better than the venoms because:
1. the necromancer can boost their numbers through necromancy. 40 vampires are A LOT better than 20 vamps + 20 venoms.
2. venoms are vulnerable to mind spells like blind, forgetfulness, song of peace, berserk and (ohyea) hypnotize which make them extremely vulnerable.
3. it's easy to block venoms them with illusions and annihilate their ranged attack.
4. it's very likely than you will lose some venoms while attacking monsters with ranged attack like cyclops or titans, even pesky medusas. Vampires regenerate very nicely and you won't ussually lose them. Instead, you gain some (2-3) through necromancy in the end. Vamps are the best suited creature to attack strong enemies and take the dragon utopia or other heavily guarded treasures WITHOUT LOSSES.
5. last but not least, venoms slow down the whole army's movement.

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