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Heroes Community > Tavern of the Rising Sun > Thread: Tavern Complaints/Feedback from Community
Thread: Tavern Complaints/Feedback from Community [ This thread is 57 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 (43) 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 ]
Lexxan
Lexxan


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Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted January 13, 2009 02:38 PM

Quote:
I'll be straight, filling a quote with every offtopic post you could find did have a base but from a reasonable viewpoint it was not only unnecessary but an eyesore as well. I don't care if you call it quote wars or not, I don't care if you had every right in the world, you could simply mention and move on for the sake of the thread and its viewers. Continue just one bit and the others follow in a vicious circle so I have to ask, is it really worth it? Let's call it a day if you don't mind and learn from the incident.


Speaking words of wisdom
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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with serious business
posted January 13, 2009 02:49 PM
Edited by TheDeath at 14:50, 13 Jan 2009.

Quote:
...you could simply mention and move on for the sake of the thread and its viewers...
Sorry to say it but I (and Ash) "mentioned" that like 5 times. What kind of reply do you think I (we) got back? Do you think I would have done it before I tried to 'mention' it?

No but you see, sometimes you need more than just mention something cause nobody will listen...
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Lexxan
Lexxan


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Unimpressed by your logic
posted January 13, 2009 03:05 PM

O, shut up.

I've just eaten.
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pandora
pandora


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The Chosen One
posted January 13, 2009 08:59 PM

Wow.

I think I'd better hang onto my modhat tightly, 'cuz if it falls off you're not much going to like what I have to say...

This just needs to stop. All of it.

Stop thinking that you all as members have the right to police each other and decide how people should or should not post.

Everyone who comes here has the same rights to enjoy HC so long as they follow the code of conduct. The tavern is not the OSM - if you look back at the old threads there was a lot of fun banter between everyone. That's what made it fun to come here, you could enjoy a sense of play while hanging out with your friends.

Understandably, it can be irritating sometimes when you're enjoying a topic and the spam takes it on a new course - but if that happens then just make a post that is ontopic to try to steer it back.

I'm sorry, but I much prefer to see people here spamming a little and having a good time with each other, than have to read this kind of fighting and nonsense.

No matter how much some of you would like to change the behaviour and attitude of people around you to suit your own preferences, you just don't have that power. Accept it, and look at maybe changing your your own attitude.

Reading this makes me feel like I'm in the OSM, not the tavern.

Someone needs to make a guide on how to lighten up and have fun...(there should also be a section on how to do that without ruining other people's fun)
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted January 13, 2009 09:15 PM

TheDeath and Pan both have good points. The Tavern isn't the OSM. The thread in question is a lighthearted discussion, not a SIRIOUS one. On the other hand, it's annoying when a good thread is dragged down by nonsensical chit-chat. The Tavern isn't the VW.

But I think I'm going to have to side with the whiners () on this one, after all - for a very simple reason: there's already an OSM thread dedicated to serious discussion of D&D. So it'd be nice to keep it there.
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pandora
pandora


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The Chosen One
posted January 13, 2009 09:21 PM
Edited by pandora at 21:50, 13 Jan 2009.

Mvass, you've been around long enough to know that the spirit of the tavern has always been captured well in spam. Look back at the threads that are known as the gems of the 'good old days'.

People really need to relax...Too many big fights erupt over little things that nobody should even notice.

By the way, you should recognize that the group you refer to as the whiners also includes some of us in the group that can take away the shinies - so be nice (yes I saw the )
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted January 13, 2009 09:28 PM
Edited by mvassilev at 21:29, 13 Jan 2009.

Quote:
Mvass, you've been around long enough to know that the spirit of the tavern has always been captured well in spam.
An inaccurate assessment, especially today. Perhaps this was half-true before the VW became designated as the place for the word games and spam, but it is certainly not true now. The Tavern is the place for banter of some sort, yes, but not for spam. There's a difference. The OSM is serious. The VW is spam. The Tavern dwells somewhere in between.



But you guys know what? There's only so much one can say and do.

As they look over the world's painful panorama of war and terror, some people conclude that it is too late, that no amount of information or activity could possibly reverse the devolutionary course that HC has set for us. But those who take that pessimistic view understand neither HC nor its current rung on the ladder to total power. Here's a quick review: If there's one thing that HC's good at, it's spreading the germs of hatred, of discord and jealously, of dissolution and decomposition. How can we expect to carry out the famous French admonition, écrasez l'infâme!, against HC's expedients if we walk right into HC's trap? We can't, and that's why it may seem at first that it is up to no good. When we descend to details, however, we see that if HC's biases get any more macabre, I expect they'll grow legs and attack me in my sleep. Pragmatic adherence to concision necessitates that I delete a plethora of thoroughly unflattering adjectives regarding HC's programs of Gleichschaltung. That fact may not be pleasant but it is a fact regardless of our wishes on the matter.

It would be charitable of me not to mention that in my opinion it is a not unjustifiable assumption that being forced to listen to HC yap on and on about revisionism is about as desirable as being flayed alive and rolled in salt. Fortunately, I am not beset by a spirit of false charity so I will instead maintain that we are at a crossroads. One road leads into the light of a bright, shining future in which self-aggrandizing racketeers like HC are completely absent. The other road leads into the darkness of antinomianism. The question, therefore, is: Who's driving the bus? Fortunately for us, the key to the answer is obvious: HC has—not once, but several times—been able to snooker people of every stripe into believing that it is an organization of peace without anyone stopping it. How long can that go on? As long as its myopic campaigns of malice and malignity are kept on life support. That's why we have to pull the plug on them and change the world for the better.

How many of HC's grunts are content to sit around doing absolutely nothing to contribute to the world around them? I'd hazard to guess that the number is pretty high. After hours of sifting through HC's jaundiced writings I finally realized that it contends that it has the trappings of deity. Sounds rather treasonous, doesn't it? Well, that's HC for you.

At the risk of shocking you further I shall point out that HC thinks it's good that its manifestos deface a social fabric that was already deteriorating. It is difficult to know how to respond to such monumentally misplaced values, but let's try this: It claims that a book of its writings would be a good addition to the Bible. That claim illustrates a serious reasoning fallacy, one that is pandemic in its adages. Then again, I could go on for pages listing innumerable examples of HC's intemperate artifices and narrow-minded roorbacks. I have already written enough, surely, to convince you that either HC has no real conception of the sweep of history, or it is merely intent on winning some debating pin by trying to pierce a hole in my logic with "facts" that are taken out of context.

HC might engage in the trafficking of human beings one day. What are we to do then? Place blinders over our eyes and hope we don't see the horrible outcome? After hearing about HC's demented attempts to usher in the beginning of an illiterate new era of paternalism, I was saddened. I was saddened that it has lowered itself to this level. Consider the issue of spleeny, jejune simplism. Everyone agrees that we can't afford to be so corrupt in such difficult times, but there are still some uncontrollable, meretricious vicious-types out there who doubt that HC should be in better control of its hormones. To them I say: HC has delivered exactly the opposite of what it had previously promised us. Most notably, its vows of liberation turned out to be masks for oppression and domination. And, almost as troubling, HC's vows of equality did little more than convince people that the real question here is not, "What exactly is HC's point?". The real question is rather, "Why do HC's hatchet men want to ingratiate themselves with HC?" The answer is not obvious because HC can't attack my ideas, so it attacks me. It could be worse, I suppose. It could encourage people to leave their spouses, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become incoherent twaddlers.

To acquire public acceptance of HC's lackadaisical sophistries is HC's objective, and vainglorious, pompous anti-intellectualism is its method. Most people are still loath to admit that HC seems to be fond of concocting new ways to limit the terms of debate by declaring certain subjects beyond discussion. Am I aware of how HC will react when it reads that last sentence? Yes. Do I care? No, because it is the picture of the insane person on the street, babbling to a tree, a wall, or a cloud, which cannot and does not respond to its fairy tales.

I myself might be able to forgive HC, but only if it promises never again to skewer me over a pit barbecue. I used to agree completely with those who claimed that your support of my values is an ideal way to tell wretched junkies just what you think of their nonsense. Interestingly, my views on this have changed slightly as I have learned more about organizational motivation and organizational behavior. Now I believe that every time HC tries, it gets increasingly successful in its attempts to uproot our very heritage and pave the way for its own unconscionable value system. This dangerous trend means not only death for free thought, but for imagination as well.

HC's bons mots are an icon for the deterioration of the city, for its slow slide into crime, malaise, and filth. I have seen what HC is capable of, and I am afraid. I am very afraid and I am very angry. HC has been offering imprudent fribbles a lot of money to demonstrate an outright hostility to law enforcement. This is blood money, plain and simple. Anyone thinking of accepting it should realize that I cannot believe how many actual, physical, breathing, thinking people have fallen for HC's subterfuge. I'm utterly stunned.

HC has become so misguided, so moved beyond the realm of reason, that I feel compelled to draw a picture of what we conceive of under the word "photoreconnaissance". Am I being too harsh for writing that? Maybe I am, but that's really the only way you can push a point through to it.

If you think about it you'll see that HC's impudent pranks are merely a distraction. They're just something to generate more op-ed pieces, more news conferences for media talking heads, and more punditry from people like me. Meanwhile, HC's helots are continuing their quiet work of advancing HC's real goal, which is to rely on the psychological effects of terror to magnify the localized effects of its announcements so that, like a stone hurled into a pool of water, shock waves ripple from the epicenter of HC's attacks to the furthest reaches of the Earth. I welcome HC's comments. However, HC needs to realize that if one accepts the framework I've laid out here, it follows logically that it intends to create a new social class. Stuck-up so-called experts, heartless manipulators of the public mind, and salacious vandals will be given aristocratic status. The rest of us will be forced into serving as their factotums. I have seen and heard enough. Now, it is time to comment on HC's half-measures. Does anybody else feel the way I do, or am I alone in my disgust with HC?
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted January 13, 2009 09:29 PM

Yes it's the Tavern. I realize some spam can be accepted. However, I didn't even start the fight. When someone calls your posts off-topic they had better a good reason to do so -- if it's the OSM, it's understandable. If it's the Tavern, again, it can be understandable. But not when others chit-chat like it were a completely RANDOM thread in the VW! How can you call my posts off-topic compared to THAT?

That's what I am talking about now -- wrong accusations. Not the thread itself (could be any thread).
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted January 13, 2009 09:44 PM

Mvass, WTF is that essay about lol?
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pandora
pandora


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The Chosen One
posted January 13, 2009 09:47 PM

@ Mvass, what the hell?

Also, I think that where we're disagreeing is in the definition of spam. When I say spam, I mean fun chitchat between members that is inspired by the subject of the thread. I'm not referring to silly pictures, links , the word "SEX" posted at random intervals and any of the sort of time wasting filler that some VW threads are filled with.

I don't see anything wrong with people just enjoying each other's company and having a good time.

@ theDeath - my point is that there are too many accusations. Period.

Lately I see it everywhere, certain people are constantly telling each other how to be. Too many threads are derailed by the same people jumping after each other over and over again about their style of posting.

Leave that to the moderators, if you don't like something and you feel its a real issue - bring it to us. Even if you don't see us online, it doesn't mean that we're not checking HCM's and reading up on the forums regularly.

There is just no need to wave a red flag and start crying foul every time someone posts something that you don't like.

To be blunt - there are some people here that really need to mind their own business. If its not about you and doesn't concern you - then please please please don't feel the need to vent your objections in a thread.

I'm not naming names, because it spares me some headache in future favouritism flame threads - but know that I'm not singling out one "side" or another, there are a lot of guilty parties here.

Again, just have fun - and chill out
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william
william


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LummoxLewis
posted January 13, 2009 09:51 PM

The way I see it:

There is good SPAM and there is bad SPAM. Good SPAM is alright in the Tavern, as long as it is somewhat related to the thread. Bad SPAM is left for the VW. I admit that I am one of those people that really should mind their own business, but when threads in the Tavern turn serious, it is a bit bad to see. OSM, I can expect threads to be serious because most threads there are of a serious nature but the Tavern shouldn't be serious. Some need to realise that there is a clear distinction between both the forums so that we might not have these arguments again and we can all just get along.
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pandora
pandora


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The Chosen One
posted January 13, 2009 09:55 PM

You can be serious in the tavern if you want to.

You can be silly in the tavern if you want to.

The tavern is for people to just be themselves, talk about whatever you want to.

You don't walk into a bar and have them throw you out because you're not following their conversational guidelines - so it doesn't happen here.

What you shouldn't do is go so far offtopic that a thread's point is lost, you shouldn't go out of your way to make sure that other people are uncomfortable and unhappy.


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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted January 13, 2009 09:57 PM

Quote:
I admit that I am one of those people that really should mind their own business, but when threads in the Tavern turn serious, it is a bit bad to see.
Quote:
There is just no need to wave a red flag and start crying foul every time someone posts something that you don't like.


The problem however is the definition of this, since most people have different definitions of what's "acceptable" SPAM in the tavern -- I don't find random chit-chat acceptable at all (in the tavern I mean), especially if more than a few posts.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted January 13, 2009 10:04 PM

Pan:
Chitchat =/= spam. They are separate things. Spam is stuff like "sex" and random funny pictures. Chitchat is what you and Geny do when you hijack a VW thread.

And often spam is better than chitchat. At best, spam makes me lol hard, and at worst it's meh. But chitchat, even at its best, can only draw a relatively small bit of amusement, and at its worst is such drivel that it makes me leave the thread and go to some more intellectually stimulating locale, such as /b/.

But the subject at hand is the Tavern. IMO, the Tavern is best represented by threads such as Nationstates. It ranges from serious to amusing and back to serious. If you skip all the whining, it would be an example of the ideal Tavern thread.

And people should have a good time everywhere in HC. Otherwise, why are they even here? Are you suggesting that the OSM or Altar aren't fun? Because there's more to fun that chitchat.

Pan and TheDeath:
Just think about that essay.
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pandora
pandora


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The Chosen One
posted January 14, 2009 06:55 AM

Quote:
IMO, the Tavern is best represented by threads such as Nationstates.


The key to the truth in that statement is the "IMO" at the beginning.

Most people have different ideas about the tavern, you like nation states - some people think riddles and games like myt are best, some love the random humour of Bort and LichKing the most.

The beauty of the tavern is that it doesn't just have to be one thing, it can be all of those things and everyone is happy.

The problem arises in that everyone thinks that their definition of funny is correct, their definition of spam is correct, their idea of the perfect tavern is correct etc- and then they think they can impose their views on everyone else.

If people just accept that there are things that you like, (so you should read that)- and there are things that you don't like - (so you should skip that) there would be no need for another of these types of arguments.

I can't imagine how it's so difficult to understand that we're not all the same - and we won't all be lumped into one generic HC mindset that we must all follow unquestioningly. In example, you complain that you hate chitchat that's funny to those involved - I have the same response when you and thedeath go off entirely on your own in a thread... its just a difference in preferences.

Either way it shouldn't matter because HC is broad enough that there should be something for everyone - so instead of constantly looking for what you don't like and complaining about it - your time seems better spent looking for the things that you do like and enjoying that...

(by "you" there I am not meaning that you are the only one with a complaint, I mean generally speaking to all)
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted January 14, 2009 08:35 AM

Quote:
The problem arises in that everyone thinks that their definition of funny is correct, their definition of spam is correct, their idea of the perfect tavern is correct etc- and then they think they can impose their views on everyone else.
Which is why it's okay when Azagal, Bak, etc, do it, but not when TheDeath and I do.

Seriously. Everybody, stop with the BAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWing. There's more than one way to have fun in the Tavern, so let us have our way.
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pandora
pandora


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posted January 14, 2009 09:00 AM

Quote:
Which is why it's okay when Azagal, Bak, etc, do it, but not when TheDeath and I do.


Who said that? Wasn't me...

Anyways, I dunno if the "problem" is resolved, or why there was a problem in the first place - but is this about done now then? I know I've had enough

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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted January 14, 2009 09:04 AM

k, whatever.


Oh, and as for that essay - it was written by a complaint generator.
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pandora
pandora


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posted January 14, 2009 09:09 AM
Edited by pandora at 09:18, 14 Jan 2009.

William Azagal Elvin Asheera  theDeath Baklava Aculias I wrote it?


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william
william


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LummoxLewis
posted January 14, 2009 09:14 AM

k...

It would be so good if that image about me complaining about most things could be dropped. I realise you were joking but it just reminds me of 2006 when everything I did here was wrong. All I ever see these days is mostly negative comments about me and then me wasting my time arguing with people.

I did find that post of yours, Mvass, rather humourous though. I was wondering wth was with it.
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