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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: A little question - Kill the Dragon.
Thread: A little question - Kill the Dragon.
abbyy
abbyy

Tavern Dweller
posted October 04, 2004 12:42 PM
Edited By: abbyy on 4 Oct 2004

A little question - Kill

Hi all!
I have a little question, actually it's a quest I got from friend. I'm sure many of you have heard about it, cause it seems pretty classic for me, but I somehow couldn't figure it out. And here it's the exercise:

-Your army: 1 hero lvl 40, skills, spells are free to choose (relatively to the 40th lvl). Atk and def=200. NO artifacts, NO portions.
-Enemy: 500 Black Dragons in 1 slot.

-->Kill those Dragons!

I belive it was an exercise in TGS, not in WoW (if it does make any diffrence in spell's effect). If anyone knows how to resolve this, plz let me know in detail.
Thanks very much!

PS: it's very easy to creat that exercise using map editor, I'm sure non of you would have problem doing this. Just a note.
____________

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terje_the_ma...
terje_the_mad_wizard


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
posted October 06, 2004 01:22 PM

I know the answer to the one about how a level 5 hero defeats 2000 sea monsters, but this one was harder...
____________
"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.

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abbyy
abbyy

Tavern Dweller
posted October 07, 2004 05:40 PM

Umm! A Sea Monster, unlike Black Dragon, can be slowed, fagtigued, or under affect of aura of fear. I have never tried this one, but i guess it can be done with a death hero, who start with basic death, basic occulitsm, 4 lvls up for Expert Death magic, and the other 1 perhaps for chaos to use slayer, or life for bless. When start the combat, cast fatigue om SM, bless or slayer+aura of fear on the hero, then wait/run/atk, till you kill 1, raise a ghost to hit them to make them aged, that would make the combat much easier. The rest is a problem of time i think, but it then must be a terrible long combat.
____________

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Armageddonic...
Armageddonicidiot


Adventuring Hero
posted October 09, 2004 03:31 PM

I think I know the answer... You need a hero with grandmaster life magic (must know guardian angel), but who is still the skill that gives mirth (scouting and nature magic) Grandmaster melee would also be good to have.
First, you use guardian angel on yourself. Then, when the dragon attacks, you die, get resurected, and attack back. Then use guardian angel again, and so on.
(Maybe this wouldn't work, as guardian angel is not a cheep spell, and you can run out of spell points)
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Ra2
Ra2


Adventuring Hero
The good doctor
posted October 11, 2004 07:27 AM

it can't be done

I know a way to kill a huge number of mosters with a high level hero.
The hero must have: Combat skills: GM combat+melee+archery
Death Magic Skills (expert Death magic with Aura of fear spell)

First round -> the hero casts Aura of fear on himself.
The stack of monsters approach.

Second round -> the mosters try to attack, but the hero kicks them first (the first strike effect of GM melee) and the wave of fear sends the monsters back two hexes. So the monster's attack is virtually disabled by this combination of effects.

Third round -> the same.
.
.
.
Last round -> all the monstres are dead.

I've done this with a strong barbarian hero (Dogwoggle I think), with the Amulet of fear equipped, against huge numbers of sea monsters, angels and behemonts.

I don't really think this will work on Blackies, though. They're not affected by Aura of fear, right?
Maybe your friend is laughing his arse out looking at us trying to find the solution for this impossible task.

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 11, 2004 09:15 AM
Edited By: csarmi on 11 Oct 2004

The guardian angel method won't work. You can't have more than 260 spell points and each spell costs you 12 mana points.

You need to be crusader to have +10 morale (life magic and tactics).

You can kill about 5 dragons per melee attack.

It takes about 50 dragons to kill you for sure.
One dragon does 11-22 damage to you, 6.6-13.3 if you are lucky. 3.3-6.6 if you are a fireguard too (in that case it takes about 100 dragon to kill you, 150 to kill you for sure.

Double that if you cast dragon strength on yourself.

Too bad you cannot buff yourself up in sanctuary. I wonder, however, how much turns do the dragons need to get from one corner to the other.

Anyways. There is no way to defeat 2000 sea monsters with a level 5 hero. I mean, with a real level 5 hero without artifacts. With artifacts it is possible, but then level 1 is already enough (level 1 sorcerer).

Make it level 2 if first strike is a level 2 spell I don't remember.

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abbyy
abbyy

Tavern Dweller
posted October 11, 2004 09:37 AM

Well!
Maybe my friend made a joke with me, but another one really did it in HOMM4 Standard, where the Sanctuary spell has longer effect. I'm not sure about the detail, but he mentioned about sumoning creatures, make them stand around the hero in the way that BD can't reach him without atk'ing those, then cast sanctuary. I don't know exactly how does Sanctuary work in TGS, but in WoW, you can stay 3 turns under its effect, then it takes few (perhaps 3) turns to get in again
On the other side, it takes 2 turns for BD to get in touch with your hero, if you stand at least in the 2nd combat line.

PS: plz don't think I'm trying to make fun of anyone here. I would like to know very much the answer myself, and tell my friend that he isn't any great dr.Tactic as he calls himself.
____________

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Mitzah
Mitzah


Promising
Supreme Hero
of the Horadrim
posted October 17, 2004 03:34 PM

That idea sounds interesting...However, the BD is fast...
____________
Give a man a fish,and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion,and he will starve to death while praying for a fish.

| The HoMM Channel |

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 18, 2004 07:30 AM

It does not work in 3.0 anyways...

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Mitzah
Mitzah


Promising
Supreme Hero
of the Horadrim
posted October 30, 2004 03:34 PM

Why is that?
____________
Give a man a fish,and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion,and he will starve to death while praying for a fish.

| The HoMM Channel |

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Maciek
Maciek


Adventuring Hero
posted August 11, 2011 06:30 PM
Edited by Maciek at 18:33, 11 Aug 2011.

Revived!

I assume my hero has 200 atk and def no matter her/his combat and melee skills mastery and champion difficulty was chosen. It is possible to beat those dragons and it doesn't even require a lot of reloads. Here are the skills I chose for my hero:



GM Nature for summon Phoenix and, along with M Life, buffs.
M Death for vampiric touch and Adv melee to improve life draining.
GM Healing and M Occultism to have more magic points.
On turn 1 summoned Phoenixes go here:



and then to the nearest corner. The hero summons another bunch of Phoenixes on turn 2 and then alternates between summoning Phoenixes and casting most of the following spells:
- Spiritual Armor, Chaos Ward, Defender, Prayer(Life)
- Stoneskin, Summon Leprechaun, Giant Strength, Dragon Strength, Summon Satyr(Nature)
- Vampiric Touch(Death)
Last 4 of those spells are casted without Phoenixes in between. It takes the dragons 2 turns to finish off the last Phoenix stack, another one to destroy the leprechaun stack on their side of the battlefield and one more is wasted flying towards the next target(the hero). Could be one more turn wasted if satyrs were on the other side of the battlefield. Just before the dragons check if our brave hero is edible, (s)he takes a defensive position. Then comes a moment of  truth: will the giant lizards deal more than 1531 damage with their scary firebreath?
200def*1.25(S.Armor)*1.25(S.Skin)*1.25(defensive position)*1.5(defender)*1.5(chaos ward)*1.5(fortune)= about 1318 effective defense
495dragons left*55-110damage*40attack/1318 defense= approximately 826-1652damage.
That means our hero with his/her 1532 Hit Points has a good chance of surviving this attack. The dragons aren't smart enough to use the wait/hit trick and can only do it by chance(if they get good or bad morale). Therefore, all that is left to do is hold a finger on 'd' key and maybe save once in a while.
I uploaded the test map along with saves from the battle and some screenshots here.

The End

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 12, 2011 08:36 AM

without reading the posts :

grandmaster tactics, combat, nature, life, death.

though, I don't remember if combat makes you play earlier, I hope so, it is crucial that you can cast at least twice before dragons reach you.

start with summon devil. then use martyrdom to protect the hero with the stack of devils (tactics is useful here, I'm not even sure those devils will survive a single blow from the dragons, but if at least one does, I guess it's cool)

then, I don't know if the dragons will attack the hero or the devils.
of course, grandmaster combat won't save the hero against 500 dragons, the idea is : if he gets attacked, the damage will be drastically reduced, and thus, less devils will get killed through martyrdom.

then keep casting summon devil. once the stack is fairly big, cast vampirism.

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PinkFlamingo
PinkFlamingo


Adventuring Hero
posted August 13, 2011 01:45 PM

Quote:
without reading the posts :

grandmaster tactics, combat, nature, life, death.

though, I don't remember if combat makes you play earlier, I hope so, it is crucial that you can cast at least twice before dragons reach you.

start with summon devil. then use martyrdom to protect the hero with the stack of devils (tactics is useful here, I'm not even sure those devils will survive a single blow from the dragons, but if at least one does, I guess it's cool)

then, I don't know if the dragons will attack the hero or the devils.
of course, grandmaster combat won't save the hero against 500 dragons, the idea is : if he gets attacked, the damage will be drastically reduced, and thus, less devils will get killed through martyrdom.

then keep casting summon devil. once the stack is fairly big, cast vampirism.


If you protect the hero with Martyr on Devils, and if the Dragons attack the Devils, the residual damage will be transferred to your hero thus killing both.  

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 13, 2011 03:08 PM
Edited by Fauch at 15:12, 13 Aug 2011.

provided they can kill them all. I read the guy above can manage by summoning only 6 phoenix at a time (ok, they have fire resistance). from what I remember, you could easily summon twice to three times more devils.

actually maybe you could try your luck with summon ice demons too, but I don't remember if dragons can be frozen. and chances of success would be random...

wait, what are you saying? martyr only transfer damage from the hero to the devils, not the other way around. but if the hero gets killed, the devils will receive residual damage. not that it is important anyway, since the hero is supposed to not die.

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PinkFlamingo
PinkFlamingo


Adventuring Hero
posted August 13, 2011 06:28 PM

Quote:
provided they can kill them all. I read the guy above can manage by summoning only 6 phoenix at a time (ok, they have fire resistance). from what I remember, you could easily summon twice to three times more devils.

actually maybe you could try your luck with summon ice demons too, but I don't remember if dragons can be frozen. and chances of success would be random...

wait, what are you saying? martyr only transfer damage from the hero to the devils, not the other way around. but if the hero gets killed, the devils will receive residual damage. not that it is important anyway, since the hero is supposed to not die.


Only 2 abilities can affect Black Dragons: Stun and Bind.

OK let's say the Dragons do 800 damage to your Martyr'd Hero of 200 hit points to your stack of 3 Devils (630 hit points).  The 3 Devils die and the 170 damage remaining transfers to your hero leaving it at 30 health.  

Ergo, Martyr is useless in this case.  

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Maciek
Maciek


Adventuring Hero
posted August 13, 2011 06:46 PM

Quote:
provided they can kill them all. I read the guy above can manage by summoning only 6 phoenix at a time (ok, they have fire resistance). from what I remember, you could easily summon twice to three times more devils.

Err... Phoenixes rebirth and that's what is important about them: they can take two hits no matter what. Hence, one spell(summon phoenix) keeps dragons busy for 2 turns.
Martyr can transfer damage either way(just tested). Level 40 Archmage can summon 12 devils(2520 Hp) for 24 magic points. Can he survive when protected by those Devils with martyr without buffs? Let's see:
Level 40 hero has 490 base Hp, this hero also has 200 defense. 500 dragons do
(55-110)*40*500/200=(5500-11000) points of damage
5500>2520+490
If the dragons go for the hero, he still can't survive, sorry. Besides, Summon Devil costs 24 Mp, which is a lot.
I could keep dragons at bay with Phoenixes, because the dragons wait on turn 1 if they can't reach any target. Then, when attacking Phoenixes, they can't reach my hero, so they attack new stacks of Phoenixes(created every second turn) instead. Meanwhile, my hero casts all existing defensive spells on herself and then defends. Mana is barely enough and in the end my hero can barely withstand a hit from all those dragons.

Btw. I think could substitute combat(and melee) with advanced chaos(mana flare, dragon slayer, bloodlust) in my hero build.

Oh, and don't forget that hero in this task is limited to 41 skills.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 13, 2011 07:09 PM

oh yes rebirth

then that wouldn't work against 2 stacks of 250 dragons.

I don't remember martyr working either way. it isn't supposed to?

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Maciek
Maciek


Adventuring Hero
posted August 14, 2011 12:00 PM

Quote:
then that wouldn't work against 2 stacks of 250 dragons.

Yes, and without equilibris there will always be 1 stack.
Martyr works only one way, but when casting you can choose to protect any of your stacks(heroes included) by any other of your stacks(heroes included).

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 14, 2011 12:09 PM

then, if I protect the hero with the devils, and the devils get killed, the hero doesn't receive the extra damage?

but if the hero gets attacked and the damage is high enough to kill the hero and the devils protecting him, then they all die.

I remember martyr being very powerful and even quite broken in combination with some strong spells

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