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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Strategical thoughts / strategical Questions
Thread: Strategical thoughts / strategical Questions [ This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 (3) 4 5 6 ]
Dingo
Dingo


Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
posted January 07, 2005 12:44 AM

Hit them with your smallest chain lighting tail.  That's usually enough.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.

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Pacifist
Pacifist


Famous Hero
posted January 07, 2005 02:31 AM

If I understand well it's preferable to attack sturdy and creatures with big hit points while the easier to kill creatures that have a great offensive potential due to their numbers and low hit-points pound on your units freely?

So I have to put many units to kill a stack of Archangels with big hp and high defence while the crusaders and hallebardiers slashs my units freely after the zealots and champions have shot and take retaliation if necessary?

The damage/hp ratio also gives an indication (in most cases) of the creatures that will fall easier due to low defence. It's not just a number like that, it reflects some hidden variables. Personally I prefer to damage the crusaders while my troops are still in high numbers to reduce their numbers the quickest possible and with lowest retaliation, then I'll deal with sturdier troops. I don't have to kill zealots, just neutralize them (that's the tactics part that helps the strategy).

I prefer to kill wyverns than gorgons for the same reason, they have greater offensive potential and are easier to kill than the sturdy gorgons (mighties or not). My level 7 creatures will fall anyway like those of my opponent (even if later) but they will deal the most damage to most important troops. They will mabe deal less damage than opponent's lv7's but overral my army will deal more damage per round.


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angelito Online
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted January 07, 2005 04:55 AM

Quote:
4. What is the only town for which it is a good idea to place the good troups into the middle? Reasons?



The only town i can think of is RAMPART.

Formation:

Silverpegasi

Centaurcaptains

Warunicorns
Battledwarves
Goldies

Dendroids

Grandelves


Reason:

1. Goldies are immun to chainlightning and meteor
2. Warunicorns have the 20% resistance aura which could protect the batteldwarves up to a 60% resistance.

So it could probably a waste of spell to cast on these 3 stacks.

I´m not that big Rampart player guy though, but that is how i would place the units, especially against NON-dragon towns (2-hex attack).

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted January 07, 2005 08:03 AM

Quote:
I think I don’t understand. You say it was a “massacre”, but still stronghold did lose.


Yes it was a massacre. Stronghold was massacred. Even though some key stacks resisted mass slow at the end of round 1 (so another well-timed mass haste possible and such other things too). Even when AB's got morale first round.

It was a good example Xarfax, shows something about Terek people could look over.

Army sizes:

I meant:

It seems to me that 2 archangels, 4 champions, 6 zealots+others vs 2 titans, 4 naga queens, 6 genies+others is the same as 5 archangels, 10 champions, 15 zealots+others vs 5 titans, 10 naga queens, 15 genies+others.

Am I wrong?


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kwahraps
kwahraps


Adventuring Hero
posted January 07, 2005 10:02 AM

Quote:
It seems to me that 2 archangels, 4 champions, 6 zealots+others vs 2 titans, 4 naga queens, 6 genies+others is the same as 5 archangels, 10 champions, 15 zealots+others vs 5 titans, 10 naga queens, 15 genies+others.

Am I wrong?




When you take into account special abilities, yes, those armies are different.  Naga Queens become that much more powerful in numbers because of their no retaliation strike.  I would say it is the same reason most people prefer might heroes, because their high attack and defense numbers are being used by every stack.  The longer the Queens have their ability, the more effective they become.  No?

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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted January 07, 2005 10:10 AM

Yes.

Does that mean people are choosing to play as Alchemists over Wizards? I'm just curious.

-guitarguy
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greek_god_su...
greek_god_superman


Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
posted January 07, 2005 10:25 AM

...Or you might go with a non-native hero...
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angelito Online
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted January 07, 2005 10:26 AM

Quote:
Yes.

Does that mean people are choosing to play as Alchemists over Wizards? I'm just curious.

-guitarguy


For sure.

Neela is one of the best heroes in the game. And Tower has not that much good heroes anyway.
I think the only 2 heroes of Tower i would chose as main heroes are Neela and Torosar.

And no....i WON`T chose Solmyr...

The only town (besides Conflux and Necro) which has some good "magic" heroes is stronghold (Battlemages) imo....Gundula, Dessa, Terek
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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted January 07, 2005 10:32 AM

Thanks for the reply

By the way, I've always chosen Cyra since she's got Diplomacy and the Haste spell for a start. I'm a big fan of using Diplomacy to gain allies and we all know the benefits of Haste.

I'm going to try Tower with another might hero. Are there any other good hero selections of the non-native variety for the Tower troops?

-guitarguy
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angelito Online
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted January 07, 2005 10:39 AM

Cyra is a cool hero (like Adela) when u play singleplayer games or hotseat games. To have legions of level7 units in endfight is funny, but has nothing to do with skill though (and that is the main point in multiplayer games..).

The best hero for Tower in my eyes is Orrin.
Tower is the only town which has 3 shooters, 2 of them are under the 4 best shooters in the game. So what could be more useful than having a main hero whos speciality is Archery?...
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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted January 07, 2005 11:22 AM
Edited By: guitarguy on 7 Jan 2005

True, so true

Okay, time for some more opinions of mine.

Yes, I suppose an Archery hero would be a good shot (no pun intended). Of course, to maximize the benefits of such an advantage I'd have to make sure that I get Titans early on in the game. Not exactly the best bet for certain Expert or Impossible games, or even on a resource-poor map. In those situations, I might as well stick with that naga guy. If I have Titans as well as a big army including Naga Queens, I still find that the magically-commendable Cyra has a lack of physical punch that pretty much goes unanswered throughout the rest of the game. Her offensive and defensive magic works well, but I find that the losses versus a tough Beastmaster or Knight hero are very serious indeed. I've considered the possibility of changing my leading hero, as you suggested, for a more reliable battle-ready alternative.

Overall, I agree that a might hero has benefits that can be trusted with very little doubt involved. These cold hard skills (Attack and Defense) can be used right away and often grow quickly for most might hero classes. Magic heroes can undergo major development in their Spell Power and Knowledge skills, but there is a slight probablility issue based around the availability of important spells. Sure, you can build a mage guild level 1 or 2 and get some handy spells, but getting those high level spells that compliment your Expert magic school specialty is more on the iffy side. Quite often so with those 5th level ones. It's even worse if you run out of secondary skill slots and only have one magic school; you'll need the right spells to get the most out of it. To counter a possible disappointment in a mage guild without certain spells, one would have to check another castle or try for scrolls or pyramids. That in and of itself, over the course of a well-played well-devoted game, merits an inclination that a player can expect to get more from Attack and Defense right then and there. Those are solid active skills that don't require spells to work. Furthermore, a player relying on magic heroes will have to achieve more distinctive lengths to make sure that the intended goals are well-sought and executed (namely getting that all-important Chain Lightning or Implosion, or whatever). Plus, mage guilds cost a bit in resources which aren't always 100% available. And the usefulness of shooting to get those level 4 or 5's drops sometimes in short games and smaller maps. Not always so with Attack and Defense. Those are handy everywhere at any time by anybody. In retrospect, I suppose it should all be taken by situation, although for myself I've got some military muscle to build on. I hope that all made sense.

Thanks for the tips,
-guitarguy


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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted January 07, 2005 11:52 AM
Edited By: csarmi on 7 Jan 2005

Quote:
When you take into account special abilities, yes, those armies are different.  Naga Queens become that much more powerful in numbers because of their no retaliation strike.  The longer the Queens have their ability, the more effective they become.  No?


Wrong. Those two fights are completely identical. It's basic math. Except for the damage spells.

(a)There is one unit that gets (relatively) stronger as army sizes grow. Which one is it?

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Q
Q


Hired Hero
Moo,I say.
posted January 07, 2005 02:03 PM

Is it a Tower or Castle unit?
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angelito Online
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted January 07, 2005 02:12 PM

Farie Dragons
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted January 07, 2005 07:34 PM

Quote:
Is it a Tower or Castle unit?

Nope.

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guitarguy
guitarguy


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
posted January 07, 2005 07:39 PM

Mighty Gorgons with their Death Moo special attack?

-guitarguy
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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted January 07, 2005 09:18 PM
Edited By: Xarfax111 on 7 Jan 2005

Quote:
Wrong. Those two fights are completely identical. It's basic math. Except for the damage spells.


@csarmi

Sorry csarmi as i said before there is definately strategically a difference. But as u insist on mathematical proofs, i must say that u are even wrong with this.

As long as there are "probapilities", there is influence relating to the "amount of creatures", due to the "Gaussian distribution curve (Gaußsche Normalverteilung)".

In an example:

The damage dialed by a creature is 80 - 100. The probability is calculated for each creature in the stack. So if uve for example about 1000 creatures some will do 80, some 81 , some 82 etc. ....some 97, some 98, some 99, some 100. So if the mass is big enough the total damage will reach 90 damage per creature on average by around 100%.

So if u do have for example only 2 creature there is a high probablity that they wont do these 90 damage on average:

Like one is doing 88, the other 98 is 93 in average, or
one is doing 81 damage, and the other 87 is 84 in average and so on.

Well thats the mathematical proof "that both fights" are not "completely identic". But i dont want to talk about statistics and maths in this thread. I want to talk about strategy....

Xarfax1
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Zsa
Zsa


Famous Hero
posted January 07, 2005 11:20 PM

Quote:


Sorry csarmi as i said before there is definately strategically a difference. But as u insist on mathematical proofs, i must say that u are even wrong with this.

As long as there are "probapilities", there is influence relating to the "amount of creatures", due to the "Gaussian distribution curve (Gaußsche Normalverteilung)".

In an example:

The damage dialed by a creature is 80 - 100. The probability is calculated for each creature in the stack. So if uve for example about 1000 creatures some will do 80, some 81 , some 82 etc. ....some 97, some 98, some 99, some 100. So if the mass is big enough the total damage will reach 90 damage per creature on average by around 100%.

So if u do have for example only 2 creature there is a high probablity that they wont do these 90 damage on average:

Like one is doing 88, the other 98 is 93 in average, or
one is doing 81 damage, and the other 87 is 84 in average and so on.

Well thats the mathematical proof "that both fights" are not "completely identic". But i dont want to talk about statistics and maths in this thread. I want to talk about strategy....

Xarfax1

yes..........
anyway, how about we leave statistics alone and talk some strategy?


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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted January 08, 2005 05:13 AM
Edited By: csarmi on 8 Jan 2005

Quote:
Mighty Gorgons with their Death Moo special attack?

-guitarguy


You got it!

Xarfax, are you positive it's calculated individually?
I didn't know that.

(goes looking for a statistical thread to put his spam to )

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Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted January 08, 2005 10:07 PM

Quote:
What is the only town for which it is a good idea to place the good troups into the middle? Reasons?

I also think its Rampart, like angelito.
But i dont get it why he puts the Battle Dwarf in the middle.
imo the War unicorn should be in the middle. That way, both sides get magic resistance (preferably other than gold Dragons and Dwarfs, since these already have it). So, next to the war unicorns, i would put grand elfs, and smth else. Also, dwarfs and goldies, should be on opposite sides (in order to avoid meteor shower, that'll certainly affect the two stacks on the opoosite side).

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