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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Quick Death for Heroes - when its might v magic?
Thread: Quick Death for Heroes - when its might v magic?
BlueGreen
BlueGreen


Adventuring Hero
Master Of Swords
posted September 03, 2001 03:00 AM

Quick Death for Heroes - when its might v magic?

Hmm... I was just thinking about when a might and a magic developed heroes collide with one another on the battle field. My theory is that they would kill each other very quickly because a magic hero wouldn;t be able to take the abuse from a might hero and vise versa.

Will magic heroes develop a better resistance to magic spells to protect them better or magic heroes would kill each other even quicker.

But as for heroes that have been developped in a combat sense they could take a long time to kill one another cause they would both have high attack and defence and hit points. The high attack and defence of each hero counteracting one another and the high hit pooints making it last longer. For example one hero has 30 attack and 30 defence and so does the other hero. Now thy're hit points could be up to around 1500 by this point. But they've countered each other attack and defence meaning they would take forever to kill each other as it would be like 0 attack and 0 defence for each hero. CORRECT?!?! From what Ive heard so far this is how it works. Correct me if Im wrong.

Now as I was saying it would be a quick affair between a hero specialised in attack and defence against a hero specialised in power and knowledge cause they dont counter one another. THe other hero's attack and defence is not gonna protect him from a good spell. While a magic heroes knowledge and power isn;t gonna protect him from a powerful blow from a might hero. Not forgetting the vastly reduced hit points they will have.

Of Course i have considered that creatures will be a factor, but there will definately be a lot of hero to hero fighting.

What do you people think, do you agree with what I am saying?
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Camelnor
Camelnor


Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
posted September 03, 2001 04:19 AM

IMO: i think this would be cool....

because if all the other creatures had died, and you just had to superheroes duking it out, that would so cool.  

especially if it took 20 more rounds for someone to win.... hehehe

a battle of epic proportions for sure!

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Dragonhunter
Dragonhunter


Adventuring Hero
Anybody got a Band-aid
posted September 03, 2001 04:42 AM

I think you're not factoring in the magic part. I don't know the new game well but I would think that spells like "Curse" & "Stonskin" or "Shield" would offset the disadvantage the magic user would have. Hitting the Fighter with a good "Slow" spell could really hinder him if he takes several rounds to get into combat and is being smacked by Lightning bolts or some such thing.
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Ash-NIR
Ash-NIR


Known Hero
the Black Warlock
posted September 03, 2001 04:45 AM
Edited By: Ash-NIR on 2 Sep 2001

Quote:
I think you're not factoring in the magic part. I don't know the new game well but I would think that spells like "Curse" & "Stonskin" or "Shield" would offset the disadvantage the magic user would have. Hitting the Fighter with a good "Slow" spell could really hinder him if he takes several rounds to get into combat and is being smacked by Lightning bolts or some such thing.


good thing there will not be any devastating spells (as powerfull as Implosion in HoMM3)...
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Camelnor
Camelnor


Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
posted September 03, 2001 04:45 AM

well i was just talking about the 2 might heroes aginst each other.

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Dragonhunter
Dragonhunter


Adventuring Hero
Anybody got a Band-aid
posted September 03, 2001 04:48 AM

Yoh! Ash-NIR, where did you get the great Avatar. Is it your own or one of the available pics. I always think of "The Crow" when I see it.
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Ash-NIR
Ash-NIR


Known Hero
the Black Warlock
posted September 03, 2001 04:50 AM

that's propably because it IS the Crow...



I found it in a site for avatars... I think still gave me the path in the "New avatar webpage" thread..
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Oldtimer
Oldtimer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
posted September 03, 2001 04:50 AM

You have missed the new skill structure.  The primary skills have changed, there is no longer att. def. know. & pow.  In H4 you get to choose which 5 primary skills you want out of a possible 9.

New Skill Structure:

Tactics(primary)-> Offence, Defence, Leadership  
These skills seem to effect your troops

Combat(primary)-> Toughness, Archery, Magic Resistance
These skills seem to effect your hero

Scouting(primary)-> Pathfinding, Seamanship, Stealth
These skills seem to effect your map movement

Nobility(primary)-> Estates, Mining, Diplomacy
These skills seem to effect resource and creature production

5 magic schools each having a knowlege type and a power type skill and a unique skill.  Even if you have high power in one school it doesn't look like it will effect the power rating of an additional school.

So maybe a grand master combat might be able to wipe out a grand master magician, but it all depends on the spells.


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Thorman
Thorman


Adventuring Hero
posted September 03, 2001 05:41 AM

Quote:


So maybe a grand master combat might be able to wipe out a grand master magician, but it all depends on the spells.




A grandmaster might Hero would destroy any grandmaster mages (or whatever).Grandmaster magic resistance gives to the hero a complete immunity to hostile spells.Even if the grandmaster mage "buff" the hell out of him,he would still get destroyed by the grandmaster might Hero (fighter,barbarian,warrior,..).Remember, the archery skill is usefull versus mages.

A might Hero will be tough to kill once he has all his combat skills boosted.

Might VS Might:

The way i see it,if a Hero has 50-60dmg,he will deal 50-60 dmg to a Hero.There is an offense and a defense skill.But i dont know if they affect Heroes(they should) and anyway grandmaster offense VS grandmaster defense bring things back to "normal".With combat skill,the Hero can deal more dmg,but there is no more "defense stats" right now,only a dmg reducing skill.I dont know how they will calculated the dmg for a stack of monster.


Why offense and defense should affect Heroes? Cuz a stack of angels will benefit of those skills,if the Hero doesnt benefit of them,he will deal good dmg (with combat skill) but will receive lots of dmg from the stack of angels(dealing 100% more dmg from the offense skill),without the benefits of defense skill,a Hero will drop very fast VS a few lvl 4 mobs.

When is the last time you saw 2 lvl 30 heroes with exact same stats,artifacts,skills,....
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thunderknight
thunderknight


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 03, 2001 06:46 AM

Quote:
__________________________________________________________

A grandmaster might Hero would destroy any grandmaster mages (or whatever).Grandmaster magic resistance gives to the hero a complete immunity to hostile spells.Even if the grandmaster mage "buff" the hell out of him,he would still get destroyed by the grandmaster might Hero (fighter,barbarian,warrior,..).Remember, the archery skill is usefull versus mages.
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Thorman, it seems magic resistance is what u like. (a fan of that resistance specialist - Thorigm ???)

Well, how about that grandmaster mage keeps on summoning elementals or something even more powerful while he just "chicken out" and avoid the more "honorable" way of hand to hand fighting with the grandmaster fighter ?

Just like Oldtimer had said, it all depends on spells.............
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thorman
thorman


Adventuring Hero
posted September 03, 2001 06:56 AM

Thunderknight you are right,there is always summoning.It could be included in a duel between two heroes i guess.

But dont always count on the fact a "might" hero has to cross the field,with archery he can deal maximum dmg from anywhere(including sieges) and have double shot.

Summoning is a really great idea tho,i liked preserve pretty much cuz of Nature magic being "friendly" to Chaos and Life.Another reason to like Preserve


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Dragonhunter
Dragonhunter


Adventuring Hero
Anybody got a Band-aid
posted September 03, 2001 01:23 PM

If the magic is at all similar in type to H3 then I would still favor the Magic. 1 "blind spell" on an enemy hero and several "disrupt rays" and the enemy hero is pretty much jello, (pick your own flavor). In the latter part of playing  H3, I never loose a unit (or very rarely) because you just cast "Blind" on one of the units, kill everyone else ressurect any dead stacks and then take out the last unit. I'm sure this a well known tactic, but it sounds like with H4 that this may not be possible; again we'll have to wait and see.
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Thorman
Thorman


Adventuring Hero
posted September 03, 2001 05:32 PM

Blind is good if the Hero dont have the magic resistance skill.Blind spell was easy to get/use in HoMM3.Will it be back,if so which school its going to be?

AI in HoMM3 is pretty lame on the battlefield,they said the computer will now take care of units dealing most dmg instead of those lower level units.It will pretty much change your tactic.

For multiplayer game,maybe you'll have to face more than one Hero.My idea is to get a "might" Hero on the front line and a spell caster on the back line.

Anyway,there is too many "if" right now to really know how the combats will end.  
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Dragonhunter
Dragonhunter


Adventuring Hero
Anybody got a Band-aid
posted September 03, 2001 10:03 PM

Maybe D&D is not a good comparison but I currently have a 7th Lvl Mage. One of our party members is 7th Lvl Knight with 18/30 strenght, Magic Armor and a Magic Dragon Slayer Sword. With my +2 Staff and a Shield and Stoneskin Spell we had a mock combat. Yes I beat him. That was 27 hit points vs 75!

Now, I did deliver some critical hits which obviously helped, but he couldn't even hurt me.

I like the way Disciples only gives a 75% change to hit on average. I guess they've done this by a varied damage system like 10-20 damage for example in Heroes but it does leave things open to a little more chance by having % chance to hit.
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Oldtimer
Oldtimer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
posted September 03, 2001 11:15 PM

The chances of being in a duel mano a mano are slim, the greatest chance is if you have a powerful assassin(Scouting & Death Magic) w/ alot of stealth who goes behind enemy lines to kill the secondary heroes.  His job will be to scout out the hero and make sure he can take out that hero and his creatures then fade back into the night.
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Saruman
Saruman


Famous Hero
On academic leave
posted September 03, 2001 11:25 PM

I think BlueGreen is correct on some points. I esspecialy think that more creatures should have natural Magic Resistance and immunity.
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LordTitan
LordTitan


Famous Hero
Hit Dice: 76d12+608 HP
posted September 04, 2001 12:42 AM

Hey Aren't you evil?

Saruman thats lame. I don't think that they shuld have a magic resistance wold help them, I mean thats like saying that you don't read to much Middlearth!
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BlueGreen
BlueGreen


Adventuring Hero
Master Of Swords
posted September 04, 2001 12:52 AM

Do heroes still have attack, defence, spell points and knowledge with all these other skills?
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Oldtimer
Oldtimer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
posted September 04, 2001 01:15 AM

No, offence and defence are tactics sub skills, while each magic school has a different kind of knowlege and power sub skills, Example chaos magic has sorcery and conjuration for power and knowlege.
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<PLEASE DO NOT WAKE THE OLD MAN!>

"Zzzz...Zzzz...Zzzz..."

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