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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Best Seventh Level Creature...
Thread: Best Seventh Level Creature... This thread is 24 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 ... 20 21 22 23 24 · «PREV / NEXT»
OhforfSake
OhforfSake


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posted September 18, 2013 01:53 PM
Edited by OhforfSake at 14:00, 18 Sep 2013.

No.

Without GD's top Necro speed is 9, iIRC. That means going last against any faction. With 14, 3 other factions, iIRC, has to get outsiders to their army to gain the speed advantage.

Edit:
Since Necropolis usually don't bring all units along (Zombies), and due to moral penalties, it can often be the best idea to split GD's in multiple 1 unit stacks to take first retal and have a better chance at aging dangerous critters.
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 18, 2013 03:04 PM

OhforfSake said:
No.

Without GD's top Necro speed is 9, iIRC. That means going last against any faction. With 14, 3 other factions, iIRC, has to get outsiders to their army to gain the speed advantage.

Edit:
Since Necropolis usually don't bring all units along (Zombies), and due to moral penalties, it can often be the best idea to split GD's in multiple 1 unit stacks to take first retal and have a better chance at aging dangerous critters.


you might be right but I still don't like'em

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


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posted September 18, 2013 03:27 PM

A personal taste is to each his own. In that regard I like most creatures, but I find Arch Devils to be something extraordinary cool.
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


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posted September 18, 2013 03:45 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 15:51, 18 Sep 2013.

I would say that GD are more a support unit rather than a Tank so I would suggest to take care of them. Aged units attacked by a lucky DK with a successful death blow means x8 more creatures killed, that would leave the AB's defense reduction far behind, make AA's attack stat look useless and BD damage look like lottery's odds of winning. It's true that CH/ME can deal too x8 their damage, but to different stacks and it would be a bad move for your enemy to place their creatures grouped in such way to be lunch for hydras.


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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


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posted September 18, 2013 03:50 PM

Isn't luck only maximum damage + 1 or are you comparing to avg. damage rolls?
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


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Age of erwins is over
posted September 18, 2013 03:55 PM

Average rolls, since undeads can't be blessed, what a pity. But it's good since your enemy can't curse them.
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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


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posted September 18, 2013 04:00 PM
Edited by OhforfSake at 16:01, 18 Sep 2013.

Doesn't expert curse return min dmg. - 1 anyway? Since skellies deal 1-3 dmg, iIRC, would that mean a cursed [exp. fire magic] skelly (or any critter with 1 in minimum damage) deals 0 damage no matter the stack size?

Edit: Also, wow! Your English have improved a lot, gratz!
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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


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posted September 18, 2013 04:59 PM

OhforfSake said:
Doesn't expert curse return min dmg. - 1 anyway? Since skellies deal 1-3 dmg, iIRC, would that mean a cursed [exp. fire magic] skelly (or any critter with 1 in minimum damage) deals 0 damage no matter the stack size?

No. I tested it (with both expert & none fire mastery) and on both test, one stack of 100 of imps with equal Attack = defenders Defense deals 100 damage.

In other words, each creature deals minimun 1 of damage (unless there is something more involved, maybe with armorer and for sure with shield they would deal less than 1 per unit).
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 18, 2013 05:00 PM

OhforfSake said:
A personal taste is to each his own. In that regard I like most creatures, but I find Arch Devils to be something extraordinary cool.


yeah, I like the tricky devils too, and I already said this in a previous post on this same thread I think. I like everything about them, albeit I am not a pro Heroes player

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


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posted September 18, 2013 05:12 PM

Storm-Giant said:
OhforfSake said:
Doesn't expert curse return min dmg. - 1 anyway? Since skellies deal 1-3 dmg, iIRC, would that mean a cursed [exp. fire magic] skelly (or any critter with 1 in minimum damage) deals 0 damage no matter the stack size?

No. I tested it (with both expert & none fire mastery) and on both test, one stack of 100 of imps with equal Attack = defenders Defense deals 100 damage.

In other words, each creature deals minimun 1 of damage (unless there is something more involved, maybe with armorer and for sure with shield they would deal less than 1 per unit).


Thank you very much for testing this. The base damage likely has a minimum of 1. The final damage also has a minimum of 1, but that's independent of stack size (see level 108 tazar with orb of inhibition and his trolling troll).
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Storm-Giant
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posted September 18, 2013 05:25 PM

OhforfSake said:
Thank you very much for testing this. The base damage likely has a minimum of 1. The final damage also has a minimum of 1, but that's independent of stack size (see level 108 tazar with orb of inhibition and his trolling troll).

Oh yeah, I heard a lot about Tazar lvl 108, he is legendary
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idontcare
idontcare


Known Hero
posted October 07, 2013 01:26 AM

I think Chaoshydra is the best 7th, but only with counterstrike+teleport, this combination is very rar, so in normal games AA, because you can give it your main hero only and let him travel with lightningspeed^^

also i count upped Nagas as 7th, so they would be nr 2, with 6 djins enchanting it

i have 2 questions: can be more spells acive on a creature then 3 and how you know the duration?
+if i attack with dragons a 2hex creature from the front, do i make double dmg?

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted October 07, 2013 01:57 AM

idontcare said:
I think Chaoshydra is the best 7th, but only with counterstrike+teleport, this combination is very rar, so in normal games AA, because you can give it your main hero only and let him travel with lightningspeed^^

also i count upped Nagas as 7th, so they would be nr 2, with 6 djins enchanting it

i have 2 questions: can be more spells acive on a creature then 3 and how you know the duration?
+if i attack with dragons a 2hex creature from the front, do i make double dmg?


Q1: your hero's spell power = duration of the spells. Also, I am not sure but I think 3 refers to the maximum number of buffs you can see on a creature at any given time, not necessarily the number of active spells. I am not sure about this aspect however, but I am sure about the duration of the spells aspect

Q2: nope, no double damage

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idontcare
idontcare


Known Hero
posted October 07, 2013 04:08 AM
Edited by idontcare at 05:17, 07 Oct 2013.

i "tested" it by making that play with 6 nagas+6 djins vs 14 green dragons with solymyr, he had already a good chainlightning, but the nagas just went completly nuts, the djins cast only good spells, so if you play vs wandering monsters you get no spells like antimagic or protection from

and i chanted till i couldnt chant the nagastack(like 6+ times) so i guess you can chant very often a single stack and dont mind other chants^^

i had originally like +6 atk or so, the nagas have 10(?) and had then 26 XD

so its really a great strat for killing wandering highlvl monsters, even if you are outnumbered
i believe nagas the best for this play since no ret+you can actually attack in melee always(vs shooters i find titans too expensive for the effect) so you can position better on the field while attacking

i really think nagas+djins with like 10 nagas+6djins vs titans in a direct confrontation can win(titans for the same amount of gold)+ they dont cost gems =)

here another example with the king of nagas fafner^^


what u cant see, they have slayer and just any imaginable spell^^

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


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posted October 07, 2013 06:20 PM

idontcare said:
i have 2 questions: can be more spells acive on a creature then 3 and how you know the duration?


As you can see on the picture, those nomads have been slowed, cursed, weakened and sorrowed (in that order). Slow isn't shown but they still have ~half movement, so you get it

I don't think you can know the duration of the spells you can't see...UI problem, sadly.
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idontcare
idontcare


Known Hero
posted October 07, 2013 11:01 PM

hi, if i have the orb that prevents spells, do djins still cast antimagic?

because i dont like that spell at all (stops future chanting)

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Storm-Giant
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posted October 07, 2013 11:11 PM

idontcare said:
hi, if i have the orb that prevents spells, do djins still cast antimagic?

because i dont like that spell at all (stops future chanting)

If a hero has equiped Orb of Inhibition, Master Genies can't cast any spells (as well as faerie dragons, for example)
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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


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posted October 07, 2013 11:50 PM
Edited by OhforfSake at 23:55, 07 Oct 2013.

idontcare said:
(titans for the same amount of gold)+ they dont cost gems =)


Sadly the unit power / cost usually isn't very interesting in heroes of might and magic because the wealth typically exceeds the units growth rate. If growth rate were eliminated or applied alternatively so that unit cost would be a determining factor of unit quality, then low level units would in general be much more usable, because the damage and hp stat growths pr. unit cost growths the fastest for low level units, iIRC, and the total stack power (that is if 2 stacks were just hitting each other without any strategy) low level units wins again.

However low level units would far from completely dominate the game, because high level units remains in their numbers while low level units are quickly decimated (though resurrection makes up for this) and low level units are slow walkers who typical can't shoot, meaning they're easy enough to manipulate.

With that being said, if one were to look at Necropolis, it's rather clear that quantity beats quality in this game, even at the cost of low speed, easy single unit drops, because there are spells to make up for it.

If there were no spells, 5k skeletons would be next to worthless on many occations.

Edit: Dispel can remove anti-magic. Did you know that for large stacks Master Genies can e.g. defeat Dread Knights (Naga Queen's sworn enemy nr. 1), because for larger stacks speed matters more. E.g. divide Genies in 1/1/1/1/1/1/rest, cast spells on the rest pack and let the single genies take the retaliation. Because it's large stacks, the final Dread Knight stack after the single unit M-Genies have fallen, has not only lost hit points, but also damage (whereas a single unit only looses hit points), meaning the M-Genies now can win the battle.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


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posted October 07, 2013 11:57 PM

Yes, if Heroes saga was a RTS, there would be no problems without grow rates - after all, there are other ways to limite massing 1 unit or promote mixing units.

But in a TBS is very hard to get the later. It's very based on numbers...
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idontcare
idontcare


Known Hero
posted October 08, 2013 12:56 AM

if the map has a lot of towns but no rampart and very few goldmines i think u cant be too wealthy, since most towns are at least until the hole building stuff procedure a moneyhole and you can only build one capitol.

the map all for one is basicly decided if you rush for the rampart and gather enough ore for fort+miners+treasure
also i tested a bit with kyrre the guy with logistics, if you only take the centaurs, one mainstack multiple 1s, then u can beat the guard of elves, take the 14 centaurs (if needed) and capture it , u may buy another hero for some extra centours (+ with the dwarfs he can maybe capture the mines in your main)

even tho it is good to have the 7th lvl i dont think its decided by this, i rather double build lvl6(deathknight) or lvl5(gorgon) in 2 towns and just crush some angelskulls

also since speed is a big factor on your heroes, i wouldn be keen on building that frigging hydrastructure, ill stick to serpent/wyverns

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