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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Haven Faction
Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Haven Faction [ This thread is 24 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 (15) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ]
kermit
kermit


Known Hero
Soul hunter
posted November 02, 2007 08:09 AM

Bah TotE elves are just overpowered

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Ceres
Ceres


Supreme Hero
and sweetness
posted November 02, 2007 09:55 AM

Realy? That's unfair... I wonder if my Haven can still keep up with it.
____________
And when the stars fall, I
will lie awake. You're my
shooting star.


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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted December 13, 2007 10:48 AM
Edited by okrane at 11:50, 13 Dec 2007.

Haven Marksman Creeping

Ok. Here are some examples of good haven creeping. Those who say Marksmen are made redundant by Crossbowmen should think again.
Haven has problems creeping early. Crossbowmen can fix this pretty good. Dougal can be really helpful if found early. Even more, it could be a good idea to start the game with him and hope for a better late game hero in the tavern.

Another good creeping option is Irina, with her Griffins, but in this post I will be showing some marksmen abuses.

The basic essential tools in this approach are increasing Marksman Damage, increasing their initiative and getting a good fodder.

Hero Build Basics

The most obvious build is:

Warmachines -> Triple Ballista + First Aid
Attack -> Flaming Arrows.
This build is really good with Vittorio, but it can be done without him. And especially because the ballista is not that great with a knight I tried another version.

Build II

I considered using:

Attack -> Tactics, Battle Frenzy, Retribution
a truly late game build which helps marksmen nonetheless

Light Magic: M of Blessings/Wrath.
Divine Strength is great for this strat. Haste and Righteous Might are useful too. The mass versions are for fast casting only.

Leadership -> Empathy
This is the key: Marksmen have really low initiative. With the combo Empathy + Divine Guidance your hero can make their turn come a lot faster

Defense -> Last Stand
Brilliant for making fodder even more sturdy and give the marksmen even more shots. As peasants come in large amounts using 2 per stack in stead of one is barely noticeable

Other Good Skills:
Dark -> M. of Mind - for creeping archers
Luck - good damage boosting

Replays

Early Crossbowman Creeping:

Matriarchs Week 2
For the begining of the game most creeps can be taken out with Crossbowmen and Squires with minimal losses.
Of course Hunters and Caster Creatures are better off handled with Griffins' battle dive

Markman Creeping Without Divine Guidance:
Without Divine Guidance

Without Divine Guidance it is much harder to kill. You have to be lucky with the obstacles and sometimes things can go wrong. However you can kill the majority of slow large creatures.
Dragons are pretty hard to handle.

Divine Guidance:

Divine Guidance
So basically you empower quickly your marksmen with all the blessings you have and then you keep casting divine guidance on them. Works pretty good.

Miscelanous:

Of course sometimes things can go better or worse. The AI can be surprising. Sometimes you have to improvise:
Other Replays

The map I played was Let's fight and the battles range from week 2 to week 4-5. I used Klaus as his specialty does not influence this strategy.

The Core Build I used was:

Retribution, Empathy, Master of Blessings, Luck

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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted December 13, 2007 10:55 AM

How the hell do I edit this thing?

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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 13, 2007 10:59 AM
Edited by Elvin at 11:05, 13 Dec 2007.

Nice, I was testing haven lately I'll check the replays and see if I have any to share. I had used Dougal and he could creep pretty much everything with crossbowmen, the only weakness seems to be ranged units that are unavoidable casualties for which I'd want to get first aid fast. I don't find ballista that important, first aid and retribution are better in the long run. That and the bonus of the cart are nice

As for squires I don't depend on them because in a regular map you will have trouble upgrading them and continuing with castle and cavaliers. I consider them 'forbidden' and this map is one of the few that you can use them early without consequences..

Edit: Right under the post there is an edit function.
____________
So the next time your cat leaves a bleeding, twitching corpse on your doormat, remember that she loves you and is just trying to bring out your inner predator.

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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted December 13, 2007 11:45 AM
Edited by okrane at 11:56, 13 Dec 2007.

Thanks.

Now they should all be working.
You're right, Squires are hard to get. This map allows it.
About Dougal, he is great early on for creeping. So is Irina and Vittorio.
But I think for a knight warmachines are not that great. If you find a memory mentor to retrain that's fine but end-game you're better off without it.

I used Klaus to prove that even late game heroes like him, Maeve, and Rutger can be used with this strat.

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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 13, 2007 12:08 PM

Maeve is not strictly an endgame hero, her starting skills and special are superb. Easy to get div guidance and archery/retribution. Generally attack, leadership and light are the ones I focus on, the first for said skills and the latter for either divine strength or haste. Crossbowmen's only problem is initiative and leadership takes care of it, only problem that remains is that they will not act first.
____________
So the next time your cat leaves a bleeding, twitching corpse on your doormat, remember that she loves you and is just trying to bring out your inner predator.

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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted December 13, 2007 12:32 PM

She's good, but still the others have better starts.

Looking at the skill wheel I see that the Unstopable Charge Build is pretty decent for creeping with Empathy, Last Stand and Guardian Angel(i would like to see some replays of creeping with it.)
All you miss is Master of Wrath.

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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 13, 2007 01:18 PM

No good, it misses out attack and retribution. Defense is an alternative of course but I'd rather not waste my level ups on perks I don't want.
____________
So the next time your cat leaves a bleeding, twitching corpse on your doormat, remember that she loves you and is just trying to bring out your inner predator.

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Pinkspear
Pinkspear


Known Hero
Crazy like a fool
posted December 13, 2007 01:33 PM

Very good ideas and replays, okrane! Keep up with more!

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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted December 13, 2007 02:51 PM

Thanks

Quote:
No good, it misses out attack and retribution. Defense is an alternative of course but I'd rather not waste my level ups on perks I don't want.


well it doesn't exclude it... on a good map like Let's Fight you can get Unstopable Charge and Retribution, and Enlightment even... The only thing that's excluded and suboptimal is Master of Abjuration instead of Master of Wrath...

God I'd wish they'd do a better skill wheel... Or fan made mod that everyone would accept.

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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 13, 2007 02:56 PM
Edited by Elvin at 14:58, 13 Dec 2007.

Did some week 1 creeping with Dougal - marksmen are cool but better left for later weeks, in the beginning crossbowmen the way to go. Enemy archers, blackbears, shieldguards, squires and many other units are better to weaken from afar. Maybe I was wrong about warmachines, even though I waited I did not get first aid and kept getting offered ballista that I did not want. Maybe it's better to just focus on leadership and aim for divine guidance, with any luck your hero will play before ranged creeps and hasten the crossbowmen's turn.
Leadership, attack and light seem a solid combination.

Horde of footmen
With their ranged protection I used to hate them when playing haven or sylvan. Now however you don't have to wait until they get close and divine strength/haste/good morale can kill each stack fast. Ok haste kinda sucks unless you have boosted your spellpower until then.

Horde of blackbears
Tough guys but again you can take them with archery and morale. Just make sure they block each other. Sometimes it's better to cast a mass spell so that your hero can kill off a stack that your archers barely missed.

Horde of chieftains
For all their hp and defense they still fall. Better to have all 6 peasant/conscript stacks so that if something goes wrong they'll target them instead of your archers. This is a good precaution vs bears too.

Horde of executioners(split in 4 stacks)
Sh*t happens and sometimes they split in 4 stacks but here is proof that you can still take them with few losses.

Horde of grim raiders
Be careful, always keep a peasant in the other corner. Watch the timing and keep your fodder alive so that you can shoot them to death. Can be pretty close.

Lots of liches
It really depends. Yes you can win but you'd better have divine strength and some peasant fodder with good morale to block them. if they have archliches it's your lucky day, bless them and they'll feel obligated to curse you again
I was pleasantly surprised to see that I had so little losses but even 10 crossbowmen hurt.

[Basically yous starting level will decide how you fare against some neutrals. Sometimes hasting will not be as good as blessing the archers to do one-hit kills and others it will make neutrals waste their turns ie matriarchs that will want to slow you. Personally I feel divine strength is better for early]

Lots of pristine unicorns
Actually they are within your power terrain or not, just gain some levels first.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

You can bet that I'd fear poltergeists(especially if split in 4 you have no chance and they are guaranteed to reach you in 2 turns) and fast units as imperial griffins. Griffins are probably doable but if they get lucky with morale you'll wish you had not risked it. Also horde of squires seems too much for early level ups and without bless.

It's easy to get flaming ballista which would make you creep much better but I'm still not convinced it's the way to go. Almost all other factions can use a ballista more effectively stats-wise and haven's power is in its army making retribution and luck more appealing choices. In the end those 6-8 levels you invested in your ballista will be missing from elsewhere.

____________
So the next time your cat leaves a bleeding, twitching corpse on your doormat, remember that she loves you and is just trying to bring out your inner predator.

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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted December 13, 2007 03:11 PM
Edited by okrane at 15:27, 13 Dec 2007.

I have done horde of vindicators with about 40 crossbowmen.
It's doable but it's really close. With about 2 points in Luck it's safer
Retaliation strike on your crossbowmen can keep a stack from hitting them. In fact they will just come near and hit some of the remaining peasants. If they are only a few left you can take them in melee.
Oh and another essential thing: The best is keeping a secondary hero near your main all the time so you can use six peasant stacks in stead of five. That one last peasant can sometimes mean a lot.

The essential spell here is: Divine Strength.

If you get Haste in your town it's twice as dificult...

And I think Tactics is a good choice too. Even if Archery gives a good boost, in the Final Battle it won't be as useful.
With Tactics you can place your peasants even better and take advantage of the terrain. Plus, with Tactics you can try and take breath-attack type creatures like Dragons and Champions

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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 13, 2007 03:28 PM
Edited by Elvin at 16:16, 13 Dec 2007.

Breath attack units can be faced regardless(if they don't get good morale in their first action and they are emeralds ) though I'll admit that I like tactics. Haven is a charging faction after all.
I'd probably use tactics against inferno/sylvan/dungeon.

Edit: I tried Vittorio WITHOUT flaming arrows, just triple ballista and he was weaker than Dougal. Most of those fights he could not win, not even with divine guidance and bless. The only thing he was successful at was defeating a horde of poltegeists and I am surprised because I thought that Vittorio was a better creeper during HoF. This only shows that this hero NEEDS a flaming ballista to do his magic

Then the other haven heroes without warmachines should be pretty mediocre at creeping which is why I did not like the faction in the first place. That and its simplicity, the only thing that requires some thought is the training management. Then again my haven skills admitedly suck so there may be a better way that I have not figured out.
____________
So the next time your cat leaves a bleeding, twitching corpse on your doormat, remember that she loves you and is just trying to bring out your inner predator.

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neinspiratul
neinspiratul


Hired Hero
posted December 14, 2007 06:48 PM

can elaine be used only with peasants in creeping? I mean she gets about 100+ the secundary hero it's about 130. Upgrade them fast and u have a powerfull army. Ofc there will be many losses but not that many if u get retaliation strike fast. Also divine guidance can come as early as 4th level(and it will usually come before level 6).

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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 14, 2007 07:42 PM

I don't think it's a good idea to depend on the peasants. Sure numerous but of little use even if upgraded - I'd rather accumulate them. Her starting skills are good but you'll still be helpless against ranged or high speed creeps as say blackbear riders.
____________
So the next time your cat leaves a bleeding, twitching corpse on your doormat, remember that she loves you and is just trying to bring out your inner predator.

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Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted December 15, 2007 02:02 AM
Edited by Duncan at 02:06, 15 Dec 2007.

I agree with Elvin here. To get to such level you need to creep first, and the problems will be on the first few days creeping when you still haven't got those skills. There will be lots of casualties and by the time you obtain the skills, you'll need to gather two-week worth of peasants to match what you initially have.

I'd like to take Okrane's words about Irina. She hasn't been given further elaboration, but imo she's as good as Dougal/Vittorio in creeping. She can even do it well right from the first week after building the griffin dwelling. Just 6 griffins (1 from her and 5 from the dwelling) is enough to effectively creep difficult monsters with no or min losses. Dougal actually even can't match this. If we're talking week 1-2, he'll lose few archers each time creeping ranged units, even with ballista. With Vittorio and his ballista, the advantage is noticeable only after some levels when attack has increased.
____________
But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.

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bloucester
bloucester


Famous Hero
MSN can go to hell
posted December 15, 2007 05:25 AM

Well, I still prefer Vittorio to Dougal. There's even another thingy I'm  using when a bit levelled up - footmen (squires) and peasants. no need to fear ranged attackers, i just defend and kill everything with the ballista. if some footmen do die, the tent resurrects them, the peasants, as always, are used to block. but most of the times the creeps  do their best to destroy the warmachines, and usually they leave them with 40-50 health and start attacking something else It may sound lame, but it is actually pretty good. if i have flaming arrows, even better.

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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted October 24, 2008 05:26 AM

Aren't vindicators better for laszlo?

And it's not that good anyway.
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I regret nothing, I expect nothing.
NONE OF YOU ARE SAFE!

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Elvin Online
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted October 24, 2008 07:15 AM

Probably though you get insane bash action And yeah they are tough but there are many ways around that.
____________
So the next time your cat leaves a bleeding, twitching corpse on your doormat, remember that she loves you and is just trying to bring out your inner predator.

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