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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5: Unique Racial Abilities Info, Poll & Discussion
Thread: Heroes 5: Unique Racial Abilities Info, Poll & Discussion This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
Valeriy
Valeriy

Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
posted April 30, 2006 05:15 AM
Edited by Valeriy at 05:15, 30 Apr 2006.

Poll Question:
Heroes 5: Unique Racial Abilities Info, Poll & Discussion

Among the major innovations of Heroes of Might and Magic 5 are the unique racial abilities of each faction. These abilties strengthen the distinctive faction flavour and offer a special strategy for playing each faction. Until now you might have wondered how some of these racial abilities actually work. Wonder no more as the AOH Team proudly presents the Unique Racial Abilities Pages:

Artificer (Academy)
Avenger (Sylvan)
Elemental Chains (Dungeon)
Gating (Inferno)
Necromancy (Necropolis)
Training (Haven)

Once you have all the information, you must make your vote below. Which is your favourite unique racial ability?

Feel free to post a more detailed opinion in this thread as well.

Responses:
Artificer (Academy)
Avenger (Sylvan)
Elemental Chains (Dungeon)
Gating (Inferno)
Necromancy (Necropolis)
Training (Haven)
 View Results!

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Shenjairo
Shenjairo


Known Hero
Simsalabim
posted April 30, 2006 08:33 PM
Edited by Shenjairo at 20:35, 30 Apr 2006.

I chose Gating. I haven't played with all skills but it's the skill that probably has the best use early on. It let's you manipulate the battlefield somewhat at least against wandering armies and will let you take on monsters that others may have to wait a bit longer with. Your unupgraded troops suck though and you will need the succubi to make real use of it, but it's a lot faster than Training. You just can't afford to build some of those things just to upgrade the peasants to archers. As for the other troops it's better to buy the ones you have in stock first before you begin to upgrade things.

Elemental Chains will be good too, but will have to upgrade the blood maidens fast to use it well. It's good it can be used without having the elemental vision skill, but will be rather annoying having to look up tables and remember what creatures have what so must get it anyway really.

Given infinite time Training will be best, I just wonder where the cutoff is for it to really begin to shine. Online games won't exactly last 6 months. Why it would be best with infinite time I think can be proved by my screenshot that I named Silly.jpg that I uploaded in the demo screenshot thread. I don't know how many skeletons you could raise with necromancy in 5 years, but 15.6k paladins doing 4.7 million damage would make a huge dent in them. That's with creatures from 1 castle only and being short on gold, with enough gold they could have been 33k. Just saying that another town's 1k level sixes won't stand a chance even if they do double damage or can gate in another 350. As with a lot of other things it's just speculation and I need to see it in a real game to have any proof, my guess is you need around 3 months before it begins to outclass the other skills though.
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vesuvius
vesuvius

Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
posted May 01, 2006 02:14 AM

I chose Necromancy, just because it has been with homm for a long time, and always the fun thing to do when playing a Necro!

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Dungeonian
Dungeonian


Adventuring Hero
Supreme matriarch
posted May 01, 2006 02:59 AM

  Elemental chains true shined in beta , but know their mechanism is changed . Combo system is gone , now every attack by opposite element creature or spell gives additional damage , but only a dozens of persent , not two , three or more times as it was in beta .
Also I don't suggest elemental chains in modern version is the best warlock's trump , the combination of ultimate irresistance , emproved spells and warlocks luck is very-very sweeting

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panduwana
panduwana


Adventuring Hero
posted May 01, 2006 03:31 AM

Regarding Artificer

Is there any difference between Amulet, Trinket, Badge, and Orb beside visual look?

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sfidanza
sfidanza


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 01, 2006 04:15 AM bonus applied.
Edited by sfidanza at 04:20, 01 May 2006.

I have to say Elemental Chains as well, as it is a blessing for a strategic and calculation-greedy mind.
Note that its status is still unclear, as it has been volontarily restricted in the demo (after all, we're not supposed to play Dungeon there...). I believe it will be restored to full glory in the release, or something equivalent, but of course, I can be wrong.

However, I really like all the racial skills. Each one is really unique and powerful, even if some require more time to master.

Necromancy is the real easy one, and used to be overpowered, but it has been tweaked down. It is a classic and passive ability, so anybody will be able to put it to good use. I'm sure that will compensate for the Necros globally weaker troops. Large number has always been the undead path.

Gating is really nice and fits the faction. It requires some thought and planning to use, but is still quite easy. And for power gamers, there are many abilities along all the inferno skill tree to boost it up. It is effective really soon, since gating a stack of imps or cerberi near shooters is very effective!

Elemental Chains is a more tricky one. Well I said it already, that's why I love it!! But it fits the Dungeon faction well, as the entire faction is meant to be harder to play. Fewer numbers, guerilla type, use of magic which is not so powerful at low levels (compared to hero direct damage for example)... With the Dungeon weAkly growth , every unit counts, and Elemental Chains just add to that complexity. That's no faction for a n00b!!

I find it interesting to see that the three 'evil' racial skills are all effective in an early game, while the three 'good' ones need more prerequisites, and require time, money and/or planning to be put to use. Well, the good guys always want to play fair...

Training may be the easiest one, even if the longest to bring to use. You only require money (lots of money), and a basic understanding of the mechanics. But since Hydra explained all that very well, you have no excuse . If not very effective in early games, it is a very powerful skill in the long run. Look at Shenjairo's capture in the screenshot thread...

Artificer needs more time to master, because you have to carefully plan the bonus you give to your troops for it to be effective. And it is really easy to loose an artefact when combining or splitting troops, or giving them a new one. It is also resource intensive, something you can't really afford with wizards, when trying to build your mage guild. However, a +3 Initiative stack of Master Gremlins (bringing their Init to 14!!) is really helping out for taking those mines.

Lastly, Avenger could well be the trickier one, and the one that scores the worse at this poll. Thinking of it, I regret not voting for it, as I find it really interesting and worth. First, it gives an original touch to an Elves faction (as does the Elven Fury special), usually peaceful and harmony-preserving. In Heroes 5, you better not mess with them... Then, it requires killing stacks first, and going back to town to choose it as favorite enemy. Not something you'll profit in a casual encounter. But combine it to abilities like Scouting or Silent Stalker, and you'll see the strategic aspect arise.

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Maslo
Maslo


Adventuring Hero
Lord of Vampires
posted May 01, 2006 11:47 AM

Me 2.

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panduwana
panduwana


Adventuring Hero
posted May 01, 2006 02:59 PM

Unique Racial Ability should be a unique, racial ability. So, here's my opinion about the abilities, starting from the least favorite:

6. Training
There is no reason the elves can't do training too. War dancer can be trained to hunter, hunter to druid, or blood maiden to witch, scout to dark raider, etc. Simply put, training is sooooo un-unique.

5. Avenger
Almost as bad as training. If green dragons can be trained to hate a particular enemy, why can't blackies? If unicorns can, why can't the hydras, the raiders' lizard, or the enslaved minotaurs? In fact, it is the dark elves who have a history based on hatred. If the peace-loving wood elves, pixies, and treants can hate, why can't the humans? the devils? the blood fury?

4. Elemental Chaining
In itself, this is a very interesting ability. Too bad it makes the wizards do not live up to their name, I mean, the term "Wizard" is supposed to be used to refer to somebody who is very very best in doing magic, but now chaining and invocation makes the dark elves out-wizarding the wizards. C'mon, why can't the wizards do that too? Are they noob in practising magic or what? And no, I am not pro-Academy, because their special is not the best either...

3. Artificer
While this ability seems to start being unique compared with the previous ones, there's one major objection: why only academy units can use the artifacts? Ordinary-human knights can use artifacts too, even the magic-related ones. Magi are human too. Hey, minotaur is creature made by wizards too. No, genie is wild beast too.

2. Gating
The runner-up really fits the faction, yes, now this can truly be called as unique racial ability. Well, but there is one minor caveat: this means that "recruit" is "permanent gating" while "gating" itself is "temporary gating". Although it's just a small and negligible problem, it's significant enough to make gating loses to the winner...

1. Necromancy
The Unique, Racial, Ability. Everything just fits. The Unique Racial Ability. All said.

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DrGonzo
DrGonzo

Tavern Dweller
posted May 01, 2006 05:05 PM

I VOTE : NECROMANCY

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Fofa
Fofa


Famous Hero
Famous? Me?!
posted May 01, 2006 10:43 PM

I like Avenger the most. Even though you might end up having to target weak creatures at first (Peasants come to mind), it would benefit against towns with weaker growth rates, like the Dungeon.

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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted May 02, 2006 04:21 AM

Necromancy. I understand how it works.    i took one look at that elemental chain thing and my brain shortwired!
____________
How exactly is luck a skill?

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Crow
Crow

Tavern Dweller
posted May 02, 2006 04:23 PM
Edited by Crow at 16:30, 02 May 2006.

Quote:
Unique Racial Ability should be a unique, racial ability. So, here's my opinion about the abilities, starting from the least favorite:

6. Training
There is no reason the elves can't do training too. War dancer can be trained to hunter, hunter to druid, or blood maiden to witch, scout to dark raider, etc. Simply put, training is sooooo un-unique.

5. Avenger
Almost as bad as training. If green dragons can be trained to hate a particular enemy, why can't blackies? If unicorns can, why can't the hydras, the raiders' lizard, or the enslaved minotaurs? In fact, it is the dark elves who have a history based on hatred. If the peace-loving wood elves, pixies, and treants can hate, why can't the humans? the devils? the blood fury?

4. Elemental Chaining
In itself, this is a very interesting ability. Too bad it makes the wizards do not live up to their name, I mean, the term "Wizard" is supposed to be used to refer to somebody who is very very best in doing magic, but now chaining and invocation makes the dark elves out-wizarding the wizards. C'mon, why can't the wizards do that too? Are they noob in practising magic or what? And no, I am not pro-Academy, because their special is not the best either...

3. Artificer
While this ability seems to start being unique compared with the previous ones, there's one major objection: why only academy units can use the artifacts? Ordinary-human knights can use artifacts too, even the magic-related ones. Magi are human too. Hey, minotaur is creature made by wizards too. No, genie is wild beast too.




As for the Artificer ability my personal oppinion is that dark elves wouldn't care for creating tiny little objects when they can blow up things... I mean they are evil destroyers so it simply doesn't fit them to have the Artificer ability. And also the elemental chain ability would be out of character for the wizards. Don't forget that they are on the good side and elemental chain ability is probably a quite dark thing to use and thus repulsive for wizards.

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JustAFan
JustAFan

Tavern Dweller
posted May 21, 2006 09:36 AM

While doing artificer I couldn`t find +min+max dmg ability to be able to add to the artifcat, got 22lvl with expert artificer and still nothing. Any help?
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detheroc
detheroc


Adventuring Hero
noticed my 2 weeks miss?
posted May 21, 2006 01:43 PM
Edited by detheroc at 13:44, 21 May 2006.

haven't use them all , but from the description, i think the standing would be:
1.Necromancy-as always
2.Gating-with instant gating is very usefull
3.Avenger-could be very good against other player's creatures
4.Training-quite expensive; if you have money,very usefull ability
5.Chain E.-too complicated, and not woth the results i think
6.Artificer-if your enemy has a major or relic ,this is a liability  

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 21, 2006 09:18 PM

Quote:
Unique Racial Ability should be a unique, racial ability. So, here's my opinion about the abilities, starting from the least favorite:

6. Training
There is no reason the elves can't do training too. War dancer can be trained to hunter, hunter to druid, or blood maiden to witch, scout to dark raider, etc. Simply put, training is sooooo un-unique.

5. Avenger
Almost as bad as training. If green dragons can be trained to hate a particular enemy, why can't blackies? If unicorns can, why can't the hydras, the raiders' lizard, or the enslaved minotaurs? In fact, it is the dark elves who have a history based on hatred. If the peace-loving wood elves, pixies, and treants can hate, why can't the humans? the devils? the blood fury?

4. Elemental Chaining
In itself, this is a very interesting ability. Too bad it makes the wizards do not live up to their name, I mean, the term "Wizard" is supposed to be used to refer to somebody who is very very best in doing magic, but now chaining and invocation makes the dark elves out-wizarding the wizards. C'mon, why can't the wizards do that too? Are they noob in practising magic or what? And no, I am not pro-Academy, because their special is not the best either...

3. Artificer
While this ability seems to start being unique compared with the previous ones, there's one major objection: why only academy units can use the artifacts? Ordinary-human knights can use artifacts too, even the magic-related ones. Magi are human too. Hey, minotaur is creature made by wizards too. No, genie is wild beast too.

2. Gating
The runner-up really fits the faction, yes, now this can truly be called as unique racial ability. Well, but there is one minor caveat: this means that "recruit" is "permanent gating" while "gating" itself is "temporary gating". Although it's just a small and negligible problem, it's significant enough to make gating loses to the winner...

1. Necromancy
The Unique, Racial, Ability. Everything just fits. The Unique Racial Ability. All said.




I don't follow you're arguments on this. Necromancy is by no means more unique than so many of the other skills - it's simply a certain spell you have to learn. You can learn Necromancy magic weather you're human, elf, or something else. The single skill that stands out as something other people cannot simply do is the gating skill, because that relates to the planar origin of the Inferno creatures. And btw. with respect to training, if you look into the world of roleplay, you will see that one of the characteristiscs of humans are their short lifespan and their adaptivity allowing them to learn new skills and proficiencies much faster than other races. So indeed, it does make good sense to have training as a human ability and not for the elves.

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Iris
Iris


Responsible
Supreme Hero
of Typos
posted June 02, 2006 08:02 PM

Aww, Avenger gets no love.  

I think I like Elemental Chaining the best, followed closely by Necromacy.  The former is a little too complex for me now.  I'll have to see it in action and I'll need some time to absorb it, but I've always thought Necromacy was cool.    And now you can raise Skelly Archers!    Of course, they're not as good as raising Power Liches though.  Haha.  ^_^

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sfidanza
sfidanza


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted June 02, 2006 08:56 PM

Quote:
The former [Elemental Chains] is a little too complex for me now.  I'll have to see it in action and I'll need some time to absorb it...

Did you see it was greatly simplified in the retail version?

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Iris
Iris


Responsible
Supreme Hero
of Typos
posted June 02, 2006 09:11 PM

 No, I didn't notice.  Thanks.  

I just looked it up, and I don't know which one I prefer.  I think the old way could potentially be way too powerful in the hands of an intelligent player.  The new way is much easier to understand and use though.  Very interesting.

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Vicheron
Vicheron


Known Hero
posted June 02, 2006 10:49 PM

1. Necromancy, easiest to use and yields the best results.
2. Training, good for early game expansion and late game domination.
3. Avenger, it's stupid how you have to go into town to change favored enemies.
4. Gating, nice skill but Inferno creatures are offensive in nature so having them sit there for one turn puts them in a bad position.
5. Artificer, not a bad ability but since Wizards almost never develops anything other than magic, it's pretty much necessary.
6. Elemental Chain, it's not even a chain, they should just rename it "bash opposite element".

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opening_gambit
opening_gambit

Tavern Dweller
posted June 03, 2006 12:57 AM

gating gating is useful in medium to larger battles. In medium sized battles it helps to avoid the losses of your current army and in larger battles they interupt the ranged troops. In smaller battles however its probably the most pointless of all the ratial abilities because i found whenever you use it the battle is over before gated troops get the chance to move/attack the battle is normally over.

Training this ability has limited use. it is ideal to overcome the uselessness of the peasants. In the haven armies it is the archers and marksmen that actually form its backbone. The other upgrades are either pointless or too expensive. I advise that you buy all the peasants you can, dont upgrade them to conscripts, a peasant will earn its cost back in 3 weeks (10 days if you have the voice of the people special ability) and upgrade them to archers only when you need them. once i have a massive stack of marksmen i dont really want to upgrade them to footmen. And to upgrade a footman to a priest and a priest to a cavalier costs too much to be afordable. In conclusion training is very useful for increasing archer/marksmen growth and has limited use in creating a few high level creatures when u have some money lying around.

necromancy Necromancy is undenyably the most useful ratial ability. Without it those necros would be the weakest faction. They can't live without it or rather unlive without it. Which is why i consider it there just to overcome the weakness of the faction's troops, its also the easiest to use, the only thing you have to do differently is i suggest you only upgrade skellys to archers after you have the necro ability to raise them. But its an ability that has an affect throughout the game and helps provide the necromancers superiority early on in the game. Another thing to note is that it has a thirst, throughout the game you will be able to easily upkeep the amount of forces you have but if you dont fight for a long time, perhaps because your force isn't enough to take the guards of rare resource mines you may find yourself left behind.

artificer I havn't really used this ability yet but as far as i see it, its similar to training in that its main use is at the end of the game when youve got the cash and the massive creature stacks, and boosting them to make up for the weakness of most of the creatures (except iron golems they are just imba)use them tactically on the right creatures, if your not fighting human players then puting +health on your gargoyles makes them even more affective tanks absorbing the damage. Puting initiative on your gremlins keeps your iron golems on full force for the whole fight. It is one of the more complex abilities but unfortunately i dont know how good it is as far as a total affect. They are however very resource confusing and should be used with care, you dont really want to buy an artifact and then find out you can't afford the cloud temple you were saving up for :S.

Avenger alas, i havn't used this ability yet either, but not many people seem to love it. I think it is another one of the tactical and more complex abilities. and isn't exactly for the every day use, use it to target creatures in your enemy factions. You find out your neighbour is a necro so put skellys, vamps and liches and spectral dragons on your list. now next time he tries to take your town your waiting and alahkazam youve beaten him with an smaller force than he had, bet he wasn't expecting that . personally its one of the abilities i would most want to experiment with more, sounds fun but i dont know much about this one.

elemental chains ive probably got the most to say about this one. in the beta it used to be amazing, tactically plan your moves, use slow with your witches and matriarchs and get ready to beat those golems to hell, the gremlins will be able to do nothing to save them. i wont explain how it works because you can find that out by yourself and proably have done, i will say that i am deeply disapointed in what they did to it upon release. They changed it from my favouite of all these abilities to probably the least favourite. From doing at least 200% damage minimum it does 160% maximum and thats only if you get the ultimate ability, hard work if you ask me. Ok its not as hard work as it used to be making the damn chains in the first place but i would at least like to see the amount of bonus increase... nows the bit when it becomes a whiny rant... I think that the system did need to become the less complex form than it is now but i think that for one all the bonus should apply to spells after all thats what warlocks are about and if they don't increase the bonus from 5% - 60% to 30% - 150% then they should let the damage bonus increase every time you use an elemental chain - i.e. when your black minotaurs perform a chain on their titans they get a 30% damage bonus because you have got expert elemental chains. Next turn your black dragons perfom another elemental chain on some gargoyles now they get a 60% bonus (are you listening nival interactive **hint** **hint** but if you then cast ice bolt on what is left of the titans it will only do 30% bonus, and hey look. Elemental chains are fun again - whoahayyy.

ok im done now to summerise:

1. necromancy
2. avenger
3. artificer
4. training
5. gating
6. elemental chains.

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