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kookastar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted May 06, 2006 11:35 PM |
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Infidelity
While Lady_Milena is sorting out the issues with her ability to post here, I have offered to post this on her behalf.
LADY_MILENA's POST ON INFIDELITY
I'm not sure if this topic hasn't been discussed before - in a seperate thread or otherwise. If that's the case, please let me know, I'd like a moderator to remove my post. Thank you.
First I'll tell you the story of what prompted me to start this thread. Approximately a week ago I was talking to a guy about marriage. Well, he said, I don't mind if my girl wants to have an intimate relationship with someone else as long as we share this lover and do everything together. Well, I inquired, what if the third person objects to this and your girl really wants him? Then it won't work, he shrugged. But, I protested then, not doing does not mean not wanting to!
And I immediately thought then about fidelity. So to speak, traditionally fidelity means not having a sexual relationship with someone else. History-wise this makes sense because safe contraception was invented not so long ago and having sex out of wedlock meant that any children born could be someone else's. Because, traditionally, people marry to have children and create legal heirs to continue the line. In the past (and still in some countries) very few marriages were based on love. Well, when you don't love/care for your wife, in most cases you're not concerned if your she secretly dreams of someone else as long as she gives birth to your own kids. IMHO I believe it's one of the reasons why affairs have been tolerated when a man cheats on his wife but not the other way round - mother is always known but a father?
However, things have changed and now people traditionally marry for love. Has infidelity changed? What if your partner doesn't have a sexual relationship but indeed in his/her thoughts it's someone else she wants to be intimate, not (only) you, is that infidelity too? Not doing does not mean not wanting.
Well in short - can infidelity be mental or only physical intimacy calls for such a label?
In loose relation to this, how about if your partner does have an intimate relationship with someone else and you don't mind it - is it cheating too? These so-called "open relationships" are a contemporary phenomenon. Of course few people are open to the idea and it works for even less of them. However, I have a bunch of friends who live this way and they feel fine. But in truth the question stands: is that a sign of total trust or is not caring? Defendants of these "open relationships" claim that
1. They are against restricting the other person and consensual infidelity is not in fact indifelity
2. They are very sure if the other person's feelings and they trust no matter they'll always remain #1 priority. Love is love, sex is sex in other words.
I wondered if I should voice my opinion now or later but after some deliberation I decided to go back to it and state my own point of view after I've heard the arguments of the others. :-)
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted May 07, 2006 01:03 AM |
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(posting issue should be sorted now & thanks Kooka)
Interesting topic.
I think actions always begin with thoughts, but thoughts can arise without our control, while we are far more in control of our actions.
I think attraction happens because we see specific personality aspects in someone or a specific kind of energy or behaviour that we are drawn to unite with. Almost a specific archetype, conveyed by other person's physical attributes or behaviour, or both. This often happens unconsciously, ad we just "gotta have them" without being able to put a finger on what it is specifically about them that we are drawn to. And most people give it inaccurate blanket generalisations, calling it "great body", "great sense of humour" etc, which are kind of true but not very accurate/specific.
Basically I think what we are attracted to are qualities we want to either posess ourselves or posess through another person. So a current relationship may fill all such needs or it may not. Maybe it can, but lacks communication or comitement to each others' fulfillment.
Personally I don't think being in a relationship and experiencing an attraction to someone is wrong, in fact it opens an opportunity to communicate with the partner about it and use that indication to enrich the relationship, finding out more about what each person likes and why.
But acting that attraction out is a different matter. Unless both partners in a relationship want it as an enriching experience, it would damage trust and likely severely harm the relationship. Keeping a secret is already a huge harm unless the relationship is shallow.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted May 08, 2006 05:36 PM |
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Edited by russ at 17:41, 08 May 2006.
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In Spartan culture, it was an honor if your guest finds your wife attractive and wants to have sex with her. But I guess it is unapplicable to the modern days, because a bunch of creeps like TNT would spent all of their time visiting different people 
If you marry a beautiful young lady, there will definitely be others looking at her. And unless you want to put your wife in a cage, you can never be sure that she isn't taking advantage of that fact. Of course, you can marry someone who is really unattractive and be the only one for her, but I prefer the first scenario.
My grand-grandmother was very charismatic and attractive lady (when she was young), so my grand-grandfather was very jealous at times, yet it didn't prevent them from living very happily together for more than 60 years (!). I was LMAO when my grand-grandmother was once talking to her friend (both of them were well over 80). Her friend quietly asked her: "so... you ever cheated on your husband?" on which my grand-grandmother replied "WELL, OF COURSE!!!". She stayed by his side until he died. When she saw him in the coffin, she said "OMG!!! he is so handsome!!!!!" and started crying. She died 6 months later.
I don't care if my wife will cheat on me - if things go as well as they did with my grand-grandparents, I'd consider my life complete.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 08, 2006 08:08 PM |
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No it has not been talked about before  .
Infidelity the Mr.Adultry.Unfaithfulness of truth  .
I think you do what you like & it's hard to change it in a sexual matter.
You like certain type of sex or you like cheating etc.
Or you can be the jealous type & have no woman or guy talk to your loved one.
Infdelity is a strange one for sure.
My XXX GF & her bf go out & have sex with other people & as long as they communicate, it's ok lol.
She even wanted to get with me & he knows all about it & it's like a joke to him lol.
Man thats just way too crazy & I am not going to do someones girl, regardless lol.
For those who think of my past, that was a rare crazy occasion which was not my fault 
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Lady_Milena
Honorable
Known Hero
Grannie Sweet Cheeks
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posted May 12, 2006 03:53 PM |
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Of course, there is a huge difference between thinking of and actually planning. To be more precise, if a man seems a woman in challenging cute dress exposing her assets in the right ways, it's not infidelity to think what it would be like to take her to bed. No, it's not infidelity. It's blindness!
I'll give you a set situation, the situation that actually made me start this thread. Guy X is married to Woman Y. X and Y have been together for a long while and never before had anyone else on the side. However, Y meets Z on the Internet and she starts neglecting X. X gets mad when he heards that Y and Z spend a lot of time talking on the phone too and flirting with the idea of meeting in person.
Practically, there is no physical contact here at all. However, it's also clear that in case, Y may or may not go out of the way given the chance. So by thinking that she'd rather be with Z than X, is that infidelity or not? 
(I definitely think that if I was X, I'd think my wife is being unfaithful. If the mind cheats, the body is just a miserable little instrument, a suffering one too)
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God does not need exist to save us...
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 12, 2006 04:31 PM |
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It could lead to somethang else & I dont really agree with your first sentence.
I dont think theres much difference at all between thinking & planning because to think it changes your mood & it leads to planning.
Sure sometimes it dont happen because of the fear but it's not a hugh Difference but a little difference.
I known many people ho talk to some on the net for a long time then eventually they plan to meet because of the love they actually feel & it would make them more miserable & being meserable goes to your first sentence in some occasions.
Not all when people look at a hot honey & they shrug it off after but some dont.
Women know what thier doing everytime they dress like that
WOmen I said before & I will say it again are more perverted & hornier then us & I believe it to be a fact .
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Lady_Milena
Honorable
Known Hero
Grannie Sweet Cheeks
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posted May 12, 2006 05:05 PM |
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I really disagree with you, Aculias. I'll give you 2 examples.
1. Every once in a while I think of killing people who infuriate me. Actually you too were on that list at some point
Of course I *was* thinking of killing you but as times shows, I didn't do so. Same goes for tons of other people, including my parents, that vice-consul, the prime minister, those three people I've loved in my life, my grandmother and ummh, it's a huge list. That's what thinking is about: flirting with the thought.
What's planning? Planning is actually deciding to do it and thinking up a strategy and getting ready to do it. Oh I've certainly had entertained myself with the thought of strangling that vice consul. But did I think of, okay, I'll investigate where she lives, I'll sneak in her house, poison her soda, watch her die? Naah. I've had continuous thoughts about doing in my daddy but I never went as far as to try to contact a mercenery to shoot him.
As you can see, thinking is not the same as planning. For example in Bulgaria, by law, the mere thoughts of killing someone is not punishable at all. They can't take you to court for it. However, for PLANNING out a murder, they can put you in the cage. A lawyer can tell you that thinking and planning are two very different things.
2. If you, my friend, remember Mr Big, for two years we were thinking of meeting. Oh yeah, I'm not going into any further details but saying drinking coconut cocktails ona porch in sunny California was the least of them. Now, two years ago it became clear we could actually meet for real. It wasn't thinking any more, it was planning. And when I thought of the money I had to spend, the 12 hours flying, our tight schedules and overall nastiness in this spirit, my enthusiasm really plummeted. When I was thinking about it, all was perfect. When I started planning, I landed on planet Earth and I landed without a parachute.
*shrugs* See?
And oh, if I was truly planning how to seduce all these pretty chicks I think of at night, I would be branded with a big red A letter right on my forehead.
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God does not need exist to save us...
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted May 12, 2006 08:11 PM |
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Morality Absentia:
Excluding any religious beliefs . . . marriages and relationships start with both clear and implied rules. Becoming a mate to someone might usually start the relationship off with a rule or set of rules that define clear relationship parameters. If a person shows signs or otherwise indicates an opposition to one of your relationship parameters then this would be an indicator to not have an intimate relationship with him/her. 'Deal-breakers' are important things to learn before committing to a relationship. Once the relationship begins, your partner has every right to hold you personally responsible for every rule that you both agreed to before committing to each other.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 13, 2006 03:38 AM |
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Thats just onhe area of it COnsis
It's not that I dont totally disagree with all you said before Milena.
I was talking about the different behaviors of people who live all around the world.
Like with your example in Bulgaria.
Everyone thinks differently & it is always dif in diferent states & countries.
It can depend on thier mood or how they were addressed or thier past.
It's true, planning is basically making future plans & sometimes it's just a tought but sometimes & it is true that it becomes more then just a tought.
I remember milena.
The way we went at it in the old Tell the truth thread & all, I was surprised you didnt actually fly out here to ring my neck.
You were pretty bad too it was not just me that was bad.
I cant even remember why we went at it, I just remember somethang went wrong.
You love me tho because i am fragile, you wouldnt want to hurt me
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted May 14, 2006 04:06 AM |
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Edited by Consis at 04:06, 14 May 2006.
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Um . . .
Quote:
You love me tho because i am fragile, you wouldnt want to hurt me.
I'm afraid the same can't be said for the butterscotch gnomes. It seems you've been promoted to their 'Most Wanted' list chum(sic).
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 15, 2006 04:26 PM |
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It's just like how much you love Lefend maker.
As much as I like Valkyrika when we have a conversation in toh forum
The love is smooth in the night
when your mind is blank & in flight
Sitting on top of the hill filled in doubt
I believe you two will figure it out
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NavonDuSandau
Adventuring Hero
of Black Sheep Tavern
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posted May 17, 2006 09:23 PM |
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Quote:
What's planning? Planning is actually deciding to do it and thinking up a strategy and getting ready to do it.
As you can see, thinking is not the same as planning.
Thinking and planning aren't the same for sure but it's the thin red line between that separates them.
With infidelity it happens that you can hardly separate those two when you meet the person often example in workplace or otherwise. Little by little your thoughts start to take control and you start to plan. Sometimes you don't even need to plan anything but something special happens and it starts life of it's own in your head.
Falling in love can happen by first sight but being in love will happen through long time planning. Automatically person's mind will start to adjust to the idea that you might spend some time with this person who you feel attracted to. And you want to believe into it very strongly. Nowadays it happens very so often because people feel bored to be with the partner they currently are involved with. People in present time are anxious of experiencing something better than they are currently doing. This drives people towards infidelity and it comes to the point that people start call even these relationships as "love affairs". Quite often it has nothing to do with love, but simply, lust.
You could call the planning that takes place almost unconsciously "the dream phase" and I would suggest that it's only through random occurences over certain period of time that the actual plan can become real. The only thing that finally can either decide whether something comes real or not is the will of human being.
I believe everyone knows where is the line when it comes to feelings, thoughts, words and actions. Everyone knows and one who claims that something just happened is just coming up with excuses. He isn't only lying to other people but also to himself/herself.
Falling in love might be accident but loving is determined by the will to love someone no matter heavens shall fall.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted May 18, 2006 05:07 PM |
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NavonDuSandau,
I enjoyed reading your post. Thankyou for sharing.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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classic
Hired Hero
Paladin
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posted May 18, 2006 07:35 PM |
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Edited by classic at 19:38, 18 May 2006.
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k this is strange infidelity is both mental and physical intimacy (sort of)
infidelity is when your lover cheats on u (kiss, sex etc.)
and in the middle ages and antiquity there was sex all the time
ex: the pricess saw a good looking soldier and the next day "oh father god gave me a child i am still a virgin it is a miracle"
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Iris
Responsible
Supreme Hero
of Typos
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posted June 09, 2006 09:23 PM |
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I worked as a research assistant for one of the professors at my univeristy. His field was in social relationships and one of the topics was about cheating.
And as mentioned above, there are 2 types of unfaithfulness: Physical and emotional.
To summarize what I learned:
-Guys cheat when given the opportunity and when they know they won't get caught.
-Girls cheat when they're unhappy with their current relationship/marriage.
-Guys are less likely to forgive physical cheating.
-Girls are less likely to forgive emotional cheating.
The first set is pretty intuitive. It's the way humans were designed, for reproduction purposes and whatnot. Back in the day, in some cultures, it's customary for a man to have multiple wives. Blah blah... I don't think I need to go into details.
As for the second set of facts, the hypothesis is that men are possessive and women are needy. To state it bluntly. This wasn't my area of research, so I'm not going to go into too much detail. Basically, if a man sleeps with another woman but isn't emotionally involved, then all his resources (time and money) will still be invested in his wife. If he is in love with another woman, then his time and money will be split between his wife and the other woman. Now, if a woman is emotionally attached to another man, but doesn't cheat, her husband doesn't lose too much. If she cheats with another man, then her baby may or may not be her husband's. That's the basic idea anyway.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted June 10, 2006 03:23 PM |
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Hmm . . .
Interesting post Iris. Thankyou for sharing.
Still no response from Peacemaker . . . I would have thought she'd find this thread especially attractive.
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted June 10, 2006 09:51 PM |
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted June 11, 2006 02:52 PM |
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Yes . . .
*cough* . . . Hence the relevance. I'm supposing you believe this thread to be a remake of that one. Ah well. And yes, that thread was interesting but it was created by you. If you don't mind me saying . . . you and I do tend to be thread-killers. The reason I'm a thread-killer is because I have almost no sense of humor but you . . . I am not sure why. Sure we can carry on about marriage, you and I, but it's threads like this one where the others seem to feel more comfortable posting in. Thus . . . I shall follow the tides.
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