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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: War, is it needed?
Thread: War, is it needed? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted May 31, 2006 08:44 AM
Edited by william at 13:13, 06 Jun 2006.

War, is it needed?

War is it needed?
In my opinion it isnt at all needed.
Whats the point of sending people to their deaths?
There isnt a reason, its really stupid and insane.
Millions of people have died in War, and thats just waste of life.
Sending people to their deaths, just so they may kill the enemy (whoever that may be), and resulting in more deaths.
Death isnt a good thing, and nobody likes it and nobody wants it.
I know for a fact that I do not want to die, and many of you or maybe all of you dont want to die either.
War isnt needed at all.
It is violent and violence just isnt the answer.
We could perhaps negotitae and prevent the killing of hundreds, thousands even millions of people, in a war that really isnt needed, because there are better ways to handle situations.

Here are some images/links of deaths of the various wars that have happened over the years:

WW1 Casualties Table
American Casualties of major American Wars
Deaths Table in a War
World War 2 Casualties
Lethality of War Wounds

Check those out and you may be amazed at the number of deaths/casualties that there have been.
This is really stupid, and whats the reason or point in sending people to die.
Or whats the point to kill another human life, there isnt a point really, and if we can just make peace with one another instead of killing one another, then I think this world would be much happier and a better place to live.
So War, is it needed?

copyright thread william collins 2006
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LegendMaker
LegendMaker


Promising
Famous Hero
The Metal Specialist
posted May 31, 2006 02:19 PM

Quote:
So War, is it needed?
Surely not. Thanks for making us realize that very stunning fact with that brilliant and highly convincing speech of yours, mate. You convinced me !

So, maybe you should forward this message to a few leaders of the world ? Maybe they just didn't realize war wasn't needed... And your witty arguments will convince them ?

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TNT_Addict
TNT_Addict


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Beautiful Liar
posted May 31, 2006 02:45 PM
Edited by TNT_Addict at 15:22, 31 May 2006.

I think war should be disabled...

And spanking penalties should be given to the lawbreakers!

@EDIT: Angelito made a point there... And after long and hard thinking...

No we do not need war... Stunning isn't it?
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LegendMaker
LegendMaker


Promising
Famous Hero
The Metal Specialist
posted May 31, 2006 03:05 PM

Spanking isn't enough. They should be spanked then have to sit in the corner for the rest of the class !

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted May 31, 2006 03:17 PM

Is it really needed to attack a thread opener only because his post isnīt 5 pages long, hasnīt got the deepness of works made by a professor of history and maybe isnīt a new topic at all?

You all blame the "vets" if they attack a "noob" in the library...."Just donīt read it if u donīt like it" "No1 forces u to reply to a topic u find useless" is answered towards these vets.
And now, the same behaviour starts here in the tavern.

Keep your nose out of topics u dislike or you have heard too much already. None forces u to read them. If the topic is boring, no1 will answer / reply, and it will disappear soon from the first pages.

This has nothing to do with defending William....it starts to annoy in general.
When i see which threads have been created in the VW lately, i really start to wonder who the kiddies are....
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LegendMaker
LegendMaker


Promising
Famous Hero
The Metal Specialist
posted May 31, 2006 03:24 PM

Well, I see your point Angel.

But neither TNT nor I were actually attacking William, here. Joking, sure (knowing him I'm pretty sure he himself wasn't completely serious either).

As for the VW, I strongly disagree : they are meant for kidding at will. Contrary to the Tavern that are supposedly meant for casual discussions.

It doesn't take a History teacher to come up with deeper thoughts than <<war is bad>>, does it ?

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted May 31, 2006 04:03 PM

But i donīt think it is as easy as "No, we donīt need war". What if all diplomatic tries will fail in the Iran issue, and they will have nuclear weapons and push the "Israel has to disappear from the map"-religion further? We all will sit in front of our tvs and do nothing?
I think it is way different to say "war is bad" or "war is not needed"....2 completely different things....

And about the history teacher....In my eyes, it is ok to start a topic with just 1 sentences if needed. Thatīs how a discussion starts.....1 statement....and then more and more others will follow. If the opener talks 1 hour....nothing else to say afterwards.....called "monologue"...
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russ
russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted May 31, 2006 04:43 PM

Quote:
When i see which threads have been created in the VW lately, i really start to wonder who the kiddies are....
With all due respect, Angelito, I think it is sign of maturity to know when your thread belongs to VW, instead of posting a bunch of blatantly obvious and redundant threads all over the HC forum just to attract some attention. That statement of yours about "kiddies" is actually quite offensive to everyone in VW. VW was designed for immature, useless and/or funny posts that people expect to get spammed. If that's not your style, then follow your own advice and DO NOT read anything in VW, instead of insulting people who like to post there. Thank you.

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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted May 31, 2006 05:20 PM

Well . . .

I think this thread has some merit. I also think it is not a redundant recreation. I don't recall seeing this thread or others like it before. There are many threads here at HC that discuss world peace (bjorn190) and some even go into specific details about types of wars and battles (created by many members). If I might make a helpful suggestion though, this discussion might get more responses in the Other Side of the Monitor. It certainly doesn't belong in the Wastelands.

The question of whether war is needed is very relevant through all of history, present, and the future. People have waged wars, are waging wars, and will probably continue to do so in the future. But are they needed? Does the human race need them to survive? This is an interesting question.
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted May 31, 2006 05:24 PM

Russ, u donīt have to tell me how to act here.
I DID follow my advice and rarely post ANYTHING in the VW.
Still i do read nearly all posts on this board.
Still itīs pretty annoying to have half of the first page of the "new posts" full with senseless "Petition for...blablabla" threads.
I remember many of the members here complaining about those who just post in the VW threads..and in nearly every thread there....so the first pages are overflooded with replies to VW threads. (Soccerfeva?)

And in my eyes, VW is not meant for funnny things. You can post funnny stuff in the tavern.
As the name itself says: WASTE-lands.

And you yet have to show me where i insulted anyone...
Better think twice before u post!
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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted May 31, 2006 05:24 PM

If u dont like war u should play on a non pvp server I guess.

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william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted June 01, 2006 08:19 AM

Im not kidding LM, im actually quite serious about this topic.
Killing solves nothing.
Deaths affect many people.
It affects friends, family, people they know and work with, and people they just have talked to etc.
War isnt needed at all.
Whats the point of killing other human beings.
There isnt any need at all.
Humans killing other humans, thats absolute crap.
Sorry for swearing, but there really isnt any point.
Just because some person is angry, they then start a war killing hundreds, thousands even millions of people, just because someone has a little problem that could be fixed by a 2 year old.
It isnt needed at all in my opinion.

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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Professional
posted June 01, 2006 11:28 AM

Needed? No.

Inevitable? Yes.



There will always be war, unless there is a worldwide dictatorship so severe that no one has individual rights, that would be the only way to stop war, and even that wouldn't last long because eventually there would be an uprising. It's in our nature.


No matter how stupid war is. It's like when two people go into each others house and try to smash everything up as fast as possible until one person says "All right, enough" and they both stop, or keep going as the case may be. Both sides take severe damage until one can't take it anymore.


The Bible says to take an eye for an eye.
But as Ghandi said, an eye for an eye leaves us all blind.

That is war.
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okiesolidarity
okiesolidarity


Known Hero
right brain/left brain wizard
posted June 01, 2006 05:54 PM

I've gotta agree with TA on this one.

"Is war needed?"

What's a need?  Going on the assumption that most people would agree that a need is a basic component that is necessary to sustain life (eg food, water, shelter from bad weather), then no, war is not needed.

I think the bigger question is: is it possible to prevent war?

The answer to that one is no, IMO.  It is possible to prevent a specific war, but the idea of ending all wars, across the globe, for all time, is absurd.  I don't mean to be condescending; I appreciate the sentiment of this thread, and I agree that war is a ridiculous thing, but your excerpts from various wars throughout history just strengthen the notion that wars are an ingrained, ugly part of human nature.

We are talking about a tradition of war that has existed since man has started recording history.  I think it would be great if we didn't see another war in our lifetimes (assuming all of the ones going on in the world right now end tomorrow...cross your fingers), but that's just a speck of time compared to the grand scheme.

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MightyMage
MightyMage


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Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
posted June 02, 2006 04:57 AM

Quote:
There will always be war, unless there is a worldwide dictatorship so severe that no one has individual rights, that would be the only way to stop war, and even that wouldn't last long because eventually there would be an uprising. It's in our nature.


Hmmmm, not a half bad idea.  I'll just start building my robot army and converting young impressionable teens.

But seriously, I agree with what TA said there.  War is an unfortunate thing but for some reason, humans feel it necessary to always want more.  This could be used to describe Hitler's rampage through Europe.  He decided being Germany's supreme dictator wasn't enough...let's take Poland too.  Hell Why not invade the rest of Europe while were at it.  What?  A reason?  Uh...the Jews.  They suck, let's kill em.  I'm sure their in some of these countries.
I hate to compare my country's president with Hitler because he's not that bad (just a little lacking in the brain department.  You know when they were passing out brains he thought they said trains and asked for two Lionel sets.) but I can't help but think of some of the similarities.  What does he want?  Well I could easily say oil and sound like the rest of uneducated America but the reality is he wanted Iraq but due to the restrictions of the UN he simply has to settle for a puppet government hence why we were "bringing democracy to Iraq".  Didn't anyone else find it odd (not just Americans but the rest of the world too) that one minute we're all hunting down Osama Bin Laden and the next President Bush is announcing that we need to lend our support to the troops because we are going to war with Iraq.  What?  Iraq?  Is Osama there or something?  No, but Saddam Hussein has Weapons of Mass Destruction.  Oh wow, he does?  Well shoot I guess we better invade after all.  
Yes I do agree that the man was abusing his powers with his whole crimes against humanity thing and had to be caught eventually but our president didn't need to make up that WMD story.  The point you ask?  There's a formula that I have just described.  You have a country.  Another country has something you want be it land, resources, etc.  How do you get it?  Take it!  How?  WAR!  But wait, you need a good reason to go to war.  Hence Hitler's Jews and President Bush's WMD's.  Now he wants to attack Iran for the same reason.  Oh boy.
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Mad_Unicorn
Mad_Unicorn


Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
posted June 02, 2006 09:32 AM

Quote:
Im not kidding LM, im actually quite serious about this topic.
Killing solves nothing.
Deaths affect many people.
It affects friends, family, people they know and work with, and people they just have talked to etc.
War isnt needed at all.
Whats the point of killing other human beings.
There isnt any need at all.
Humans killing other humans, thats absolute crap.
Sorry for swearing, but there really isnt any point.
Just because some person is angry, they then start a war killing hundreds, thousands even millions of people, just because someone has a little problem that could be fixed by a 2 year old.
It isnt needed at all in my opinion.



I felt a need to respond to this in a devils advocate way..

1. Killing does solve the problem of overpopulation and sometimes people need to die (ask anybody on life support that doesn't wanna be)
2. My understanding of death seems to be that it only affects those immediatly close to the person or if its on the news.
3. War is just a way to mass kill which i already pointed out is necessary for the planet to survive.
4. Anger is not always the motivation for wars, sometimes like this "war on terror" its about money for the "so called good guys", while on the opposite side its religious reasons why they hate us so much.

I have said it before and i know ill say it again after i say it now... Violence solves problems.. without violence negative feelings would fester till the whole society would implode rather than just a few nations. Violence is fuel by which we humans are motivated by mainly (there are others) ill give you an example..

   Say you get in a fight against your will or try and mediate on one you have no business in and you end up in it... So you get beat up real bad, Chances are you will either A) get stronger so you wont get beat up again (competion through violence) B) get beat up again and eventually be too weak to continue existing (survival of the fitest) C) Avoid the situation entirely and learn not to get yourself into that kinda mess again. (Inteligence brought by violence)

Lets look at all the POSITIVE things that have come from wars..

People get a sense of justice or "correct" patriotism and will teach their offspring that same sense.. Thus making society as whole better for a TIME!

Hopefully the right people were killed and the country is better off untill the next tyranny for a TIME!

We realize that war is very taxing to the economy and our economy goes up for a TIME!

Basically im saying war is needed to refresh the world to bring in new ideals or get rid of the ones we dont want.

Humans are violent creatures and if you try to supress it you are just fighting a long ardous battle that you cant win. Let it out the violence and be on your mary little way a better person. (nobody is a good person when they wanna be angry)

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted June 02, 2006 02:04 PM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 14:12, 02 Jun 2006.

Quote:
Hence Hitler's Jews and President Bush's WMD's.  Now he wants to attack Iran for the same reason.  Oh boy.


The whole WMD thing is insane.

They have to invade Iran and Iraq and wherever because they have this weaponry. And that's not allowed. Wait a second, doesn't America have more of these WMD's than any other nation in the world?

All goes back to that world police thing.



But mainly wars are between nations, so to eliminate them you have to eliminate nations.
But then theres civil war, and even brawls on the streets and violent crimes turn into war in some form or the other.


And not always can diplomacy be an option to prevent wars.

I mean take the major example as WW2. Hitler goes along and takes over Poland.

Hey Hitler, not a good idea buddy. Can you go home?
No.

Please?
No.

He kills more people.
What are the other nations supposed to do, let him run wild? That wouldn't be a war, no, it would be a massacre.
Taking the defensive option is the best way, and if you need to push them back where they belong, then so be it.

But why did Hitler invade these countries?
Because he thought he could rule them better. He thought it would be better for his people and the invadees if they were taken over, and didn't care what anyone else thought. Remind you of MM's example? George Bush decided he could rule Iraq better than Saddam did. Why, he wasn't breaking any laws, he wasn't imposing on any other nation, just like Poland or any other country, but yet they go in and take over. This isn't an anti-american statement, John Howard sent Australian troops in without public approval too.

I understand that Saddam Hussein did terrible things to his people, and maybe the only good thing to do was to invade. But to be technically correct, it was his country and he could do what he wants. He wasn't breaking any laws of any other country because he wasn't doing anything IN those countries.

Maybe the American constitution should be applied to the whole world. Then George Bush could go and take over everyone, he would have a right to.
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MightyMage
MightyMage


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Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
posted June 02, 2006 11:26 PM

Quote:
Maybe the American constitution should be applied to the whole world. Then George Bush could go and take over everyone, he would have a right to.


Oh please for the love of God (or if you don't believe in God then people in general), don't curse us like that.  I swear we'll try to keep him better caged just don't wish that on the rest of the world.  
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MightyMage.  For he is all I could ever
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okiesolidarity
okiesolidarity


Known Hero
right brain/left brain wizard
posted June 03, 2006 02:04 AM

be fair now...he's just a puppet anyhow.  i've heard that one-on-one he's not that bad a fellow...

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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted June 03, 2006 04:09 AM

True

I'll be the first to back that claim. He truly is a good guy who works very hard. The problem isn't his personality or his character. He is a good man and a nice guy. Do you know what they say about nice guys? They get taken advantage of in the same way President Reagan did. Naked ambition knows it's greatest threat is to be seen. (a tribute to Karl Rove) Thus the true enemy lies within; hidden beneath the cover of a basket full of good intentions. Rove has even been quoted as saying: "We are finally back in power." That says it all.
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