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| Thread: Dwarven Fortress - My expansion town |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Nusaram
Hired Hero
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posted June 11, 2006 05:57 PM |
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Edited by Nusaram at 17:59, 11 Jun 2006.
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I think there are too much dragons already.Come on!!Think of something new.I mean black dragon,shadow dragon,green dragon,emerald dragon,bone dragon and sceptral dragon!!!Enough freakin' dragons!!At least not 7th lvl.
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted June 11, 2006 06:55 PM |
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Preparing...
I myself am preparing to post a dwarven town of my own. Some information will be based on existing H5 material, even though they are not "spoilers" and nothing from my town is actually going to appear in the game. After browsing a hell lot of threads on HC, I managed to compile a bit of this and that and here I present you the introductory picture of my dwarf town.
Soon, in a new thread (most likely), I will post the town. I yet do not know if I am going to make it pictorial, but I wish to make it that way.
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted June 11, 2006 07:22 PM |
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I'd like to see Pegasus return as a Valkyrie (hence putting it in my own Dwarf castle), although I admit it doesn't seem earthly enough. Although it works better when my theme tends more towards snow (which I think a new Dwarf castle should).
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted June 11, 2006 07:31 PM |
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Quote:
I'd like to see Pegasus return as a Valkyrie (hence putting it in my own Dwarf castle), although I admit it doesn't seem earthly enough. Although it works better when my theme tends more towards snow (which I think a new Dwarf castle should).
meh, I would not like it to return in a town and surely not as a Valkyrie. I would rather suggest to make Pegasi Rider (as I would call it - Windrunner or Windrider) a neutral unit with almost incomparable initiative, speed, or something like that, that would make it a top-notch creatures.
If there was a town worth having pegasi, it was sylvan, yet I see them having none 
Yes, snow oriented dwarves would be more pleasant, yet if they truly worship Arkath, the Drake of Fire, it seems not that possible. If they lean towards fire, I think that it might make dwarves more like "creatures of the deep mountains", yet with same technology or mining/mine aspects.
In my proposal, I tend to make them more... mountain-based. I will make them snow/fire-like. Neutral, in the middle... With snowy peaks to defend them from dragons and fiery depths to trap their foes (maybe even volcanic depths).
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted June 11, 2006 07:34 PM |
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Yes, fire does go better with earthy themes. The fire/snow combo is what I went for in my Dwarf town, because I realised fire was not worshipped by anyone else and that it would work well with Dwarves (who are forgers in my faction), and because I wanted a new faction to use snow and my other faction was on swamp.
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 11, 2006 09:04 PM |
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I too, want to write a Dwarven Hall army, but maybe later. (still havn't pen down my Orc one yet)
I like to build around a themed strategy first, and make creatures and ablity from there. Dwarven, of couse, should be very defensive. Thus would see lots slow, but heavly armor defender that are like rock to crack, and heavy shooter to back the ranks.
Racial special ablity I am thinking of include:
Build Fort: Allow your heor to build a Fort on the field at where you are standing (take your whole turn). When enemy hero attack, you will have a wall defending you. The Fort will be gone once the hero moves. (very good when use at chock points)
Mobile Tower: When hero with this ablity is defending in town or in a fort, will add one additional tower to his defense.
Improve Stonework: Dwarven walls gain more defense/hp.
Improve Mines: Require a whole turn to improve a mine. Mines produce 150% better output (so instead of gaining 7 crystal in a week, you would gain 10 crystal) Improvement will be destory if any other army claim that mine.
(and possibly a racial weakness, where they will have lower movement points than other, but suffer no pentality over rough terrain)
It would make them more of a"hole up" race, but weaker in expanding. (which would be somewhat opposit from that of Orcs)
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted June 11, 2006 09:46 PM |
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Building a fort in the middle of the battle field...? that sounds a lot like Alcibiades's Dwarven Defender's ability... but building a fort? that sounds too much for me...
The tower thing seems nice, but I would make it a bit different (because building another tower seems a bit unreal in bettle conditions):
Each tower gains an extra shot per turn and a bonus to damage, those increase with level like so:
Fortify tower
Basic - upper tower gets 1 extra shot, 10% damage bonus to all towers.
Advanced - Upper & lower towers get 1 extra shot per turn, 20% damage bonus to all towers.
Expert - both towers and central garrison get 1 extra shot per turn, 30% damage bonus to all towers.
Ultimate - both towers and central garrison get 2 extra shots per turn, 40% damage bonus to all towers.
The wall inhensing sounds great! developing that idea...
Wall Defender
Basic - Walls take 1 more hit to destroy.
Advanced - Walls & Moat take 1 more hit to destroy.
Expert - Walls, Moat and Defences (Towers & Garrison) take 1 more hit to destroy.
Untimate - All in mentioned in expert take 2 more hits to destroy.
Mine enchanter seems a bit over powered to me...
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 11, 2006 11:46 PM |
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Nice to have some brainstorming here.  I will have to comment on a couple of the posts here. 
The Dragon Problem
Many people complain about the number of Dragons in the game. Of course, this is much a matter of taste, but several things should be taken into account. First of all, each creature has an upgrade, and thus complaining about green and emerald dragons as separate units doesn't make much sense.
Second of all, this has to be seen in the greater context. My "vision" of the Heroes 5 world includes 9 factions, the 6 existing plus the Dwarven, Orc and Naga towns. Of these, 4 would have a Dragon unit, counting the Spectral Dragon as a Dragon, even though it actually haven't got that much in common with the other dragons. That would be the Sylvan (Emerald Dragon, representing the Crystallic Dragons), Dungeon (Black Dragon, representing the Chromatic Dragons), Dwarven Fortress (Mithrill Dragon, representing the Metallic Dragon) and the Necropolis with their Spectral Dragon. I don't think this is too many dragons, after all what we have is an offensive, a deffensive and an intermediate one, and then the Undead one which is kinda off the beat. And Dragons make for excellent interracial hate-relationships.
Setting and elemental connection
When I made this idea for a town, I associated the Dwarves with the mountain setting, and did not work with a particular relation to fire. However, we know from the official stuff, that the Dwarves worship the Dragon of Fire, and thus, the official Dwarven Town (if any) will probably focus much more on the fire/forge/deep earth/volcanic aspect. This will probably result in a greater focus on mechanic units - my guess, we will see a return of the Dragon Golem - and meen goodbye to Thunderbird and Metallic Dragons in this town. The mining/inventing aspect would also make the Gnome a more probable assciated creature than the Halfling. I also think this will rule out the Pegasus, even though I personally find this creature to make sense with the mountain setting as an alternative for the Thunderbird.
Skills andAbilities
I personally think it would be out of line with the game to give the Hero to many skills and/or abilities that require direct action on the adventure map. I don't think it would work to have the Hero actively improve the mine by spending the movement point of one day there - but one could make a Mining ability that would passively increase mine output - or give you a weekly ressource bonus - just like Estates of Heroes IV. In this case, I modeled the Dwarven Miner over the peasant, to have this be a unit ability rather than something the Hero did.
Likewise, I find it hard to imagine the thing about spending the movement of the day to build a fort on the adventure map. How exactly should this work - would the attacker bring the catapult into game. And what about moat - and towers? Also, I have concerns about the usability of this ability - first of all, you have to know by day start that you're going to be attacked, and once Town Portal comes into play, won't it be easier to just wiff away, than spending your whole day digging in, just to have the enemy perhaps not attack you, but run by you - after which, you'd probably have to go after him anyway.
I think the idea of super-strong masonry is very interesting. One possibility would be to make on of the abilities in their racial skill something like 'Master of Masonry', and the make a building in the city called Masoners Guild. One could imagine that once the guild was build, and when the Hero with that particular skill was available in town, improvements could be made, like adding extra strength to walls and gate and add another arrow tower (for a total of two centre towers). An alternative would be to make this a part of the racial skill, so that on Basic level, Hero could supervise construction of Strong Walls, on Advanced level, he could supervise construction of Strong Gate, on Expert level, he could supervise construction of Strong Towers, and on Ultimate level, he could supervise construction of a second arrow tower. Parttaking of the construction work might require a days labor (movement of one day spend). It could work like this:
Basic Defender: Units gain +20 % Defence and + 2 Initiative until next turn on taking defence action. Hero can participate in construction of Strong Walls.
Advanced Defender: Units gain +40 % Defence and +4 Initiative until next turn when they take defence action. Hero can participate in construction of Strong Gates.
Expert Defender: Units gain +60 % Defence and +6 Initiative until next turn when they take defence action. Hero can participate in construction of Strong Towers.
Ultimate Defender: Units gain +80 % Defence and +8 Initiative until next turn when they take defence action. Hero can participate in construction of Extra Tower.
Offensive Defence (ability): Units that take the defence action gain first strike on retaliation strike.
Master Of Defence (ability): Units gain one more retaliation strike (can retaliate against two attacks).
Defenders Luck (ability): Units that take defence action has +25 % chance to do double damage (cumulates with luck bonus).
Punishment of Defender (ultimate ability): Units that take defence action strike twice on retaliation strikes. First strike only applies to one of the strikes.
I don't know if this would work, and numbers might have to be tweaked - but it would certainly encourage a much different strategy in game!
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 12, 2006 01:36 AM |
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On field ablities, though more "unsual" in a typical hero sense, I think does add on to more strategy in troop movements. You would enact such ablity from your spell book. As Dwarven are more defensive, they are better if the enemy come to them, and not them to the enemy. So I still like Build Fort, as it give you a strategic control over a field location, making it harder to be attack. (And its reasonable that Dwarves would fortify them with with, well, stones)
In Fort, the stone wall are shorter (more like a fense), with a gate in the middle. The attacking troop's Catapult will be in use at this situation.
And on the skill of Mobile tower, it would only be use in a Town (or fort) battle, and count as an additona tower (which could be destory by a catapult), and not the the field battle.
I do like alcibiades Defensive ablity. (and I am assuming that the active ablity listed can only be target at one friendly unit at one time?)
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 12, 2006 08:19 AM |
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Quote:
On field ablities, though more "unsual" in a typical hero sense, I think does add on to more strategy in troop movements. You would enact such ablity from your spell book. As Dwarven are more defensive, they are better if the enemy come to them, and not them to the enemy. So I still like Build Fort, as it give you a strategic control over a field location, making it harder to be attack. (And its reasonable that Dwarves would fortify them with with, well, stones)
In Fort, the stone wall are shorter (more like a fense), with a gate in the middle. The attacking troop's Catapult will be in use at this situation.
And on the skill of Mobile tower, it would only be use in a Town (or fort) battle, and count as an additona tower (which could be destory by a catapult), and not the the field battle.
I'm still somewhat biased as to using your movement points to make this. I simply don't think the advantage of the fence will be large enough to justify using a complete day doing it. I might be wrong, of course, but walls are really not THAT usefull during combat, especially not if they're gonna be knocked down easily and have no moat, as they would be bound to be, if it should make any sense. And also, would this extra tower not just be yet another ballista?
Quote:
I do like alcibiades Defensive ablity. (and I am assuming that the active ablity listed can only be target at one friendly unit at one time?)
Actually, that was thought as a passive ability - one that simply applied to all units. One might tweek it and make it apply to only Dwarven units - that would actually make good sense. And, do notice that all these things only come into play when the unit takes the defensive action - that is, skips its regular turn.
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 12, 2006 09:45 AM |
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I'm still somewhat biased as to using your movement points to make this. I simply don't think the advantage of the fence will be large enough to justify using a complete day doing it. I might be wrong, of course, but walls are really not THAT usefull during combat, especially not if they're gonna be knocked down easily and have no moat, as they would be bound to be, if it should make any sense. And also, would this extra tower not just be yet another ballista?
Actually, that was thought as a passive ability - one that simply applied to all units. One might tweek it and make it apply to only Dwarven units - that would actually make good sense. And, do notice that all these things only come into play when the unit takes the defensive action - that is, skips its regular turn.
On Fort. The trick is how you will use it. A Fort orientated hero would have Stonework and Mobile Tower (the tower only apply when there are walls, as in town or fort, can no be destory like a war machine, but only by catapult, thus it not an extra ballista), Higher Wall (which reduce damage from shooting units if inside the walls) and other supportive ablity, which would make just a wall stronger, making them able to use a smaller amount of troops to hold off a larger amount. I think it would be pretty useful and powerful on a battle field.
However, the question is where you would make such Fort in order for it to be useful. Chock Points and Narror Pathway, or even infront of a town or important mines, would be a likly choice. Open ground would just be a bad choice, as enemy would simply circle around.
I want Dwarf to be more of a "walled off" race (master of Turtling), who would best suited in a well defensive place, with only few passage way leading in and out of their little terriorty, which they will mostly fortify and improve its productions to be self sufficent in there. Of couse, there are also pros and cons to that strategy, as to make it balance.
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Feuerader
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posted June 12, 2006 10:34 AM |
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Quote:
Nice to have some brainstorming here. I will have to comment on a couple of the posts here.
The Dragon Problem
Many people complain about the number of Dragons in the game. Of course, this is much a matter of taste, but several things should be taken into account. First of all, each creature has an upgrade, and thus complaining about green and emerald dragons as separate units doesn't make much sense.
Second of all, this has to be seen in the greater context. My "vision" of the Heroes 5 world includes 9 factions, the 6 existing plus the Dwarven, Orc and Naga towns. Of these, 4 would have a Dragon unit, counting the Spectral Dragon as a Dragon, even though it actually haven't got that much in common with the other dragons. That would be the Sylvan (Emerald Dragon, representing the Crystallic Dragons), Dungeon (Black Dragon, representing the Chromatic Dragons), Dwarven Fortress (Mithrill Dragon, representing the Metallic Dragon) and the Necropolis with their Spectral Dragon. I don't think this is too many dragons, after all what we have is an offensive, a deffensive and an intermediate one, and then the Undead one which is kinda off the beat. And Dragons make for excellent interracial hate-relationships.
Setting and elemental connection
When I made this idea for a town, I associated the Dwarves with the mountain setting, and did not work with a particular relation to fire. However, we know from the official stuff, that the Dwarves worship the Dragon of Fire, and thus, the official Dwarven Town (if any) will probably focus much more on the fire/forge/deep earth/volcanic aspect. This will probably result in a greater focus on mechanic units - my guess, we will see a return of the Dragon Golem - and meen goodbye to Thunderbird and Metallic Dragons in this town. The mining/inventing aspect would also make the Gnome a more probable assciated creature than the Halfling. I also think this will rule out the Pegasus, even though I personally find this creature to make sense with the mountain setting as an alternative for the Thunderbird.
Skills andAbilities
I personally think it would be out of line with the game to give the Hero to many skills and/or abilities that require direct action on the adventure map. I don't think it would work to have the Hero actively improve the mine by spending the movement point of one day there - but one could make a Mining ability that would passively increase mine output - or give you a weekly ressource bonus - just like Estates of Heroes IV. In this case, I modeled the Dwarven Miner over the peasant, to have this be a unit ability rather than something the Hero did.
Likewise, I find it hard to imagine the thing about spending the movement of the day to build a fort on the adventure map. How exactly should this work - would the attacker bring the catapult into game. And what about moat - and towers? Also, I have concerns about the usability of this ability - first of all, you have to know by day start that you're going to be attacked, and once Town Portal comes into play, won't it be easier to just wiff away, than spending your whole day digging in, just to have the enemy perhaps not attack you, but run by you - after which, you'd probably have to go after him anyway.
I think the idea of super-strong masonry is very interesting. One possibility would be to make on of the abilities in their racial skill something like 'Master of Masonry', and the make a building in the city called Masoners Guild. One could imagine that once the guild was build, and when the Hero with that particular skill was available in town, improvements could be made, like adding extra strength to walls and gate and add another arrow tower (for a total of two centre towers). An alternative would be to make this a part of the racial skill, so that on Basic level, Hero could supervise construction of Strong Walls, on Advanced level, he could supervise construction of Strong Gate, on Expert level, he could supervise construction of Strong Towers, and on Ultimate level, he could supervise construction of a second arrow tower. Parttaking of the construction work might require a days labor (movement of one day spend). It could work like this:
Basic Defender: Units gain +20 % Defence and + 2 Initiative until next turn on taking defence action. Hero can participate in construction of Strong Walls.
Advanced Defender: Units gain +40 % Defence and +4 Initiative until next turn when they take defence action. Hero can participate in construction of Strong Gates.
Expert Defender: Units gain +60 % Defence and +6 Initiative until next turn when they take defence action. Hero can participate in construction of Strong Towers.
Ultimate Defender: Units gain +80 % Defence and +8 Initiative until next turn when they take defence action. Hero can participate in construction of Extra Tower.
Offensive Defence (ability): Units that take the defence action gain first strike on retaliation strike.
Master Of Defence (ability): Units gain one more retaliation strike (can retaliate against two attacks).
Defenders Luck (ability): Units that take defence action has +25 % chance to do double damage (cumulates with luck bonus).
Punishment of Defender (ultimate ability): Units that take defence action strike twice on retaliation strikes. First strike only applies to one of the strikes.
I don't know if this would work, and numbers might have to be tweaked - but it would certainly encourage a much different strategy in game!
imo, Punishment of Defender doesnt seem powerful enough, and the abilities probably overlapped Haven's Counterstrike (as they are dealing with similar things)
And for Defenders' Luck, Im afraid it doesnt make much sense. Taking defence action waste 1 turn and the unit cannot attack until next turn, and luck is (seemingly) not enrolled in retaliations.
I'd probably make it like this:
Berserk: Give a special combat ability to all Dwarven creatures that they could sacrifice all defence points and turn them to attack bonus. Lasts for 1-3 turns.
Swift Defence: Defence action only waates half the intiative, but its effect remains until the unit takes 2 action after. (that means, the unit can defend, take another action later in which defend still takes effect, then has another turn)
Preparation: All dwarven units start with Defence stance upon the beginning of combat. Can stack with Swift Defence.
Fimbulwinter(ultimate): Hero could turn the battlefield into their familiar ground (snowland), and any non-dwarven creatures on this terrain suffers cold damage over time. Last for several turns.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 12, 2006 12:49 PM |
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Quote:
imo, Punishment of Defender doesnt seem powerful enough, and the abilities probably overlapped Haven's Counterstrike (as they are dealing with similar things)
And for Defenders' Luck, Im afraid it doesnt make much sense. Taking defence action waste 1 turn and the unit cannot attack until next turn, and luck is (seemingly) not enrolled in retaliations.
Well, as to the Punishment ability, I think it's rather nasty. Taking all into account, you have a creature that'll have a huge bonus to its defence when it takes the defence action, it'll only use some of its initiative, it'll retaliate on two attacks and have two retaliation strikes on each, where the first of each will be a first strike.
All in all, that give the unit up to 4 attacks per turn, and it is attacked twice, where it retaliates before the attack and has greatly increased defence value - and it'll get to act sooner.
During normal action, it will have only 2 attacks, of which only 1 will be the first strike, and it will be attacked twice (one retaliation + one counterattack). This will use the full initiative of the unit, and the unit will defend with only regular defence value.
And about the Luck of Defender - well, make luck bonus apply to retaliation, and give an extra luck bonus on retaliation strike. Or, make this two different abilities, one associated with the Defender skill (Luck of Defender - make luck bonus apply on retaliations), and one associated with luck skill (Lucky Retaliation - grant +2 luck bonus on retaliation strikes, Luck of Defender required to gain skill).
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted June 12, 2006 09:59 PM |
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Well, as to the Punishment ability, I think it's rather nasty
It certainly sounds it.
Fimbulwinter --
Great name and idea, it will be the use of real mythological ideas and names (although not unpronouncable ones!) like this that make expansions great, rather than just more 'made up' ideas. Ragnarok could also be used (didn't fimbulwinter come just before ragnarok or something?).
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 12, 2006 10:41 PM |
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Ragnarok could also be used (didn't fimbulwinter come just before ragnarok or something?).
It did indeed.
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