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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Creature Tricks and Tips
Thread: Creature Tricks and Tips This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT»
silentbobus
silentbobus


Adventuring Hero
posted June 16, 2006 05:25 PM

Creature Tricks and Tips

I found one particular strategy particularly effective during the Warlock campaign and so I decided to create a thread to share it with you...

I've commonly found that for certain battles it's helpful to only fight with a couple of creature stacks. That way I can win without the losses that are generally incured from enemy shooters to the weaker units. For Warlock, the best creatures to take are Black Dragons and Deep Hydra.

I recently discovered that the Hydra's regenerative ability allow them to ressurect their own dead units, and that when the battles are long enough, can ressurect all of their losses. If you are able to blind or puppet master the last group of enemy units, you can just let the Hydra sit until they are back up to full strength and win without taking any losses.

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juventas
juventas


Adventuring Hero
posted June 16, 2006 06:09 PM

This is a pretty common, well-known tactic, but I love it.  Put a pack of grim raiders next to an enemy unit, split your blood furies into 3-4 units, and attack the enemy.  Put on haste/slow for extra effect.
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silentbobus
silentbobus


Adventuring Hero
posted June 16, 2006 07:12 PM

Quote:
This is a pretty common, well-known tactic, but I love it.  Put a pack of grim raiders next to an enemy unit, split your blood furies into 3-4 units, and attack the enemy.  Put on haste/slow for extra effect.


Also, I'm not 100% sure of this, but if you use a stack of Minetour Guards, the Grim Raiders can get in two swings.

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ParagonKnight
ParagonKnight

Tavern Dweller
posted June 17, 2006 04:07 PM

Yes, it swings twice.
Did you know that if u put Grim Raider near multiple enemy stacks and atk all of them with Deep Hydra ...... Raider will bite everything that take hit.

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Thanatos
Thanatos


Known Hero
posted June 17, 2006 05:49 PM

Quote:
Yes, it swings twice.
Did you know that if u put Grim Raider near multiple enemy stacks and atk all of them with Deep Hydra ...... Raider will bite everything that take hit.


Sounds nice but isn't that almost impossible to pull off in an effective way due to the Hydra's size and speed?

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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted June 17, 2006 08:49 PM

technically, i guess you could hit up to 4 creatures with that, in an ideal situation.
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Fofa
Fofa


Famous Hero
Famous? Me?!
posted June 18, 2006 07:16 AM

If a Shadow Witch/Matriarch is out of ammo, and Eruina's special activates, the Witch/Matriarch will still shoot.

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Vicheron
Vicheron


Known Hero
posted June 18, 2006 07:31 AM

Royal Griffins are really good against neutral casters and shooters. Split the Griffins into as many stacks as you can and leave all your other creatures out of battle. When combat begins, battle dive the enemy creatures.

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eddie1309
eddie1309

Tavern Dweller
posted June 19, 2006 12:13 AM

Nice thread, too bad not many people picked it up.  I'll add something from myself, maybe it will help someone who didn't try it, maybe the tips will be useful for somebody.

I'm playing dungeon campaign now, and so here's my early observations:  DON'T ever attack units that have unlimited retaliation with your Minotaur Guards - the attacked unit will retaliate twice, since Minotaurs attack twice - a quick way to greatly reduce your minotaurs...

I've found that casting Righteous Might on Blood Furies is more effective overall way of using your Shadow Witches' turn than it is to attack with them.  Blood Furies attack reeeeaaaally often and their speed is very big.  I use them kind of like the archers - put everything on wait or defend and let the enemy creatures come to me, taking some of them out every turn with the BF.  By the time they get to my forces there are not many of them left, and minotaurs and hydras finish them off.

The Assasins are the weakest 1 tier creatures so far, imo.  They are only good for poisoning, not for doing actual damage, so split them into several grops if you have the free spots and poison as many groups of enemy creatures as possible.

Some observations concearning creatures and tactics from previous campaigns:

Necro:  A Necromancer without Archery is a grand mistake.  You'll find out soon that Skeleton Archers are your main creatures.  The best artefacts for Necro are the ones that add +1 to life and especially +1 to damage of every creature - with 2k skeleton archers, it simply means +2k to every attack  If you have a situation on the battlefield when you only want the enemy stack of creatures to retaliate - use Ghots/Specters.  More often than not the enemy stack will MISS on retaliation.  Vampire Lords DO NOT rebirth so well as in HOMM 3 - don't count on betting all on VL like in HOMM3.  Wighs/Wraiths are very good, contrary to what you might have read in other posts, even though not as strong as Death Knights were in HOMM3.  Zombies are useless, this has not changed

Inferno:  Gating Gating Gating, let's gate'em all.  Get all the improvements of gating ASAP, then use gate from all your creatures on the first turn and let the enemy kill the gated creatures, not yours!   A great tactic to end the battle without any losses (all the losses are gated creatures.)  Also the only tactic for seizing enemy castles.  Imps I guess are the best 1 tier creatures there are in the game.  Strong and able to do a big amount of damage, plus they add mana to your hero even if his/her knowledge would not permit that (over your maximum mana), and the extra mana stays after battle.  Cerberi are terrific, really the best units in the inferno imo.  Nightmare don't have a whole lot of HP for their tier, even though their Fear attack activates itself quite often.  Watch out with the Succubi - don't use them if you have some enemy creatures blinded or puppeted - it will cancel the effect because the creature is attacked by the chain-fireball.  Pit Lords are useful only for the first 2 turns - then their mana is over, and by that time all the battle is usually on the other side of the field - they are too slow to get there.  You may consider gating them on the first turn instead of casting fireball or meteor shower.  Don't forget - the gated creatures still have all the features, including spell casting.

Haven:  ha, it's strange, but for me Haven is actually not that bad!  The reason being - it doesn't have any tiers to waste, no creature is unusable in Haven, and they are all... good or great.  Buy peasants at the beginning of the weak for their taxpayers ability.  Marksmen are superb shooters for their tier.  Imperial Griffin = battle dive and initiative, both very usable, especially for enemy shooters/casters, who usually don't move.  Paladins are great, don't forget to cover the most ground with each attack, even if the enemy is right next to them, order them to attack from the other side, making them move before dealing a blow.  Inquisitors really add to the shooting ability of your Haven army.  Angels are tough and do a lot of damage.

The set of info is pretty basic stuff, but maybe it helped somebody

Please, post your stategies and tactics, I found that it is much more important in HOMM 5 than it was in previous games of the series.

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Gus
Gus


Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
posted June 19, 2006 12:38 AM

Quote:
The Assasins are the weakest 1 tier creatures so far, imo.  They are only good for poisoning, not for doing actual damage, so split them into several grops if you have the free spots and poison as many groups of enemy creatures as possible.

Splitting them is bad. The poison damage equals the number of Assassins in the stack, so if you split them, you reduce your Poisoning capacity.
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Darksequence
Darksequence


Hired Hero
For great justice!
posted June 19, 2006 12:57 AM
Edited by Darksequence at 01:03, 19 Jun 2006.

Vampire lords can still rule, use the hero with vampire specialty, make sure you are at least be around lvl 15 and get 15-20 vampire lords, you should now be able to kill all non-shooting neutral armies even some lvl 7 units.Don't deploy any other units at tactics phase. get the raise dead spell to take care of high lvl shooters/{destructive} spell casters/mechanical creatures.
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silentbobus
silentbobus


Adventuring Hero
posted June 19, 2006 02:08 AM

Quote:
Vampire lords can still rule, use the hero with vampire specialty, make sure you are at least be around lvl 15 and get 15-20 vampire lords, you should now be able to kill all non-shooting neutral armies even some lvl 7 units.Don't deploy any other units at tactics phase. get the raise dead spell to take care of high lvl shooters/{destructive} spell casters/mechanical creatures.


Well, that definately works in the campaign, since you keep getting neutral Vampire Lords to join you in large numbers. I did end up using that trick quite a bit during the Necro vs Academy portion of the Necro campaign.

Another tactic I forgot to mention that was helpful during the initial HAven campaign was to leave a stack of 1 unit where they could be attacked by the enemy to draw in their units. In many cases this killing of the 1 unit worked out better than risking the rest of the units and the computer always takes the bait.

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TDL
TDL


Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
posted June 19, 2006 05:08 PM

As we are talking about Necropolis as of now, I thought to mention this too. It is based solely on single player experience.

If there are many spellcasting units on the map... and you have fort from the beginning

Upgrades ghosts to spectres as soon as possible. Mana Drain is a devastating force. Even though it does not help in the end fight, but against neutral monsters, they are crucial. Today, I played A Tear for Ossir scenario on Hard. I fought against 40 spectres. Those 40 spectres would not have been defeated weren't it for my master hunters and elven luck. They simply drained the hell of sprites and druids, consequently resurrecting lost units.

Thus, if you see you have difficulties against spellcasters, it might be wise to upgrade to specters. Yes, they are the main bait most of the time, but against Magi whose Fist of Wrath has a 50% chance to miss they are a nice juggernaught.

In most other cases, go for skellies and their growth booster on week 1.  If the map is resource scarce, and the map has fort built in-town already, I even build citadel, although that may not be necessary.
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OOPMan
OOPMan


Adventuring Hero
posted June 19, 2006 05:30 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Yes, it swings twice.
Did you know that if u put Grim Raider near multiple enemy stacks and atk all of them with Deep Hydra ...... Raider will bite everything that take hit.


Sounds nice but isn't that almost impossible to pull off in an effective way due to the Hydra's size and speed?


Two words:

Teleport Attack

Works great with Hyrdas...
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ParagonKnight
ParagonKnight

Tavern Dweller
posted June 19, 2006 07:51 PM

I wanna post tricks that didn't see other post yet.(at least i didn't)

Dungeon with grim raider base seem interesting. As they can be either magic base or might base . Grim raider go for might base which isn't so popular for dungeon players. Instead of Destructive go for summoming magic.Warlock 's spell power won't go to waste as Conjure pheonix still support it (And raise dead seem nearly as powerful as resurection for strongest heroes final battle). Phantom force work well with those lizard as they get instant move after summoning and can pull off lizard bite.Clone b.fury if they got no AOE spell to counter.Clone lizard to pull of bite(all to let the image bite for it self!!). And maybe clone hydra if u manage to get teleport assault in!. for skill,Summon magic, Sorcery, Logistic seems good.(i was saying might base but didn't mean u need might skill? maybe i should say tactic base)

A lot people complain about irresistable magic that shut out ur Dragon-Geddon tactic. Why why why.... why u need dragons? There is other creature that can't be hit by fire magic and it isn't come with warlock yep u should know now. How about Gargoyle-Geddon
Nathir, academy hero who specialize in fire magic and never take irresistable magic!!! beleive me that his Armageddon won't let u down when compare to warlock's meteor show(and maybe u let that warlock down himself)

i have question about lizard bite (more) Do lizard bite activate to both target if hit by black dragon's fire breath?? weird that i figure hydra trick with bite out before black dragon (blame those T.Assault for that)
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juventas
juventas


Adventuring Hero
posted June 19, 2006 08:16 PM

Nathir does indeed disappoint.  With a 20 spellpower and at level 32, his armageddon does 700 damage.  If you can't kill all your enemies in 2 rounds, say goodbye to Nathir.
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eddie1309
eddie1309

Tavern Dweller
posted June 19, 2006 09:48 PM

Quote:
Quote:
The Assasins are the weakest 1 tier creatures so far, imo.  They are only good for poisoning, not for doing actual damage, so split them into several grops if you have the free spots and poison as many groups of enemy creatures as possible.

Splitting them is bad. The poison damage equals the number of Assassins in the stack, so if you split them, you reduce your Poisoning capacity.


Thanks for the info, I didn't know that.  Still, it makes Assassins even worse.

Another thing:  Blood Furies draw enemy shots in like an electromagnet draws in metal scraps.  Computer AI always seams to work the same in this case - no matter who you're fighting against, they WILL shoot your Blood Furies and seldom someone else.  Also when fighting against walkers, they will oftentimes go after Blood Furies.  You can use this to your advantege to lure them around the battlefield and pick them out with your shooters.  Or, when fighting hordes of low-tier shooters, don't deploy Blood Furies at all, they will be greatly reduced in number for the first few turns until your hydras get to the other side of the field...

All in all, no wonder to the AI - Blood Furies are s u p e r b creatures.  However, their defence is painfully low.  They kill many and fast, but are killed as fast also.  They should work even better with tactics, but it's just an assumption since I don't have tactics with Realag yet (and I'm only playing campaigns so far).

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silentbobus
silentbobus


Adventuring Hero
posted June 19, 2006 10:07 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The Assasins are the weakest 1 tier creatures so far, imo.  They are only good for poisoning, not for doing actual damage, so split them into several grops if you have the free spots and poison as many groups of enemy creatures as possible.

Splitting them is bad. The poison damage equals the number of Assassins in the stack, so if you split them, you reduce your Poisoning capacity.


Thanks for the info, I didn't know that.  Still, it makes Assassins even worse.

Another thing:  Blood Furies draw enemy shots in like an electromagnet draws in metal scraps.  Computer AI always seams to work the same in this case - no matter who you're fighting against, they WILL shoot your Blood Furies and seldom someone else.  Also when fighting against walkers, they will oftentimes go after Blood Furies.  You can use this to your advantege to lure them around the battlefield and pick them out with your shooters.  Or, when fighting hordes of low-tier shooters, don't deploy Blood Furies at all, they will be greatly reduced in number for the first few turns until your hydras get to the other side of the field...

All in all, no wonder to the AI - Blood Furies are s u p e r b creatures.  However, their defence is painfully low.  They kill many and fast, but are killed as fast also.  They should work even better with tactics, but it's just an assumption since I don't have tactics with Realag yet (and I'm only playing campaigns so far).


Tactics just lets you use an additional row to place your units at the start of the battle. Getting something to modify their movement is much better.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted June 19, 2006 11:55 PM
Edited by Elvin at 23:56, 19 Jun 2006.

Quote:
The Assasins are the weakest 1 tier creatures so far, imo.  They are only good for poisoning, not for doing actual damage, so split them into several grops if you have the free spots and poison as many groups of enemy creatures as possible.

Splitting them is bad. The poison damage equals the number of Assassins in the stack, so if you split them, you reduce your Poisoning capacity.


Thanks for the info, I didn't know that.  Still, it makes Assassins even worse.

No,no,no you don't realise their full potential!They are the only tier 1
creatures that can kill 7 tier ones effortlessly without retaliation.(250 assassins equals 250 damage for a few rounds on opponent's angels)Shoot tier 7,then 6 and enjoy! Anyway the opponent has more serious threats to take care of and you will probably only face 1-2 ranged units(tops).

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juventas
juventas


Adventuring Hero
posted June 20, 2006 12:10 AM

If you have blood furies, your 250 assassins will remain quite safe.  Your 250 assassins will be able to poison a lot of stacks before they get nullified.
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