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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Is Empowered Implosion Unbalanced/Unbeatable??
Thread: Is Empowered Implosion Unbalanced/Unbeatable?? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
Izzachar
Izzachar


Adventuring Hero
posted August 04, 2006 06:59 PM

Agree with perman empowered meteorshower is much better in most cases especially vs necropolis where it might be a good idea to split the damage so that the necro player just dont rez back the killed creatures.

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kerista
kerista

Tavern Dweller
posted August 04, 2006 07:14 PM

You can't count on empowered spells costing double either.  There is a warlock hero that reduces the cost of empowered spells as he gains levels.  At that high a level it would cost about the same as a regular implosion.

Your best bet with Necro is to take Vlad as your hero, send your unit with the highest defense into the middle of their troops and force them to deal with it.  Then cast raise dead on it each turn.  Or if you have enough Vampires, send them in instead since you can't retaliate against them and they raise themselves.  That combined with raise dead and they will never fall.

For a 5th level spell, implosion IMO does not do enough damage.  Meteor shower is MUCH better in almost every case.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 04, 2006 07:37 PM

Quote:
Or if you have enough Vampires, send them in instead since you can't retaliate against them and they raise themselves.  That combined with raise dead and they will never fall.


I am sorry, this is not H3/H4. Vampires' lifedrain is worthless now (50 attacking, 2-3 ressurected? lmao) and letting them charge alone means they will get under extreme focus fire and die in one turn. And raise dead.. well, I'd rather raise the wraights instead..

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kerista
kerista

Tavern Dweller
posted August 04, 2006 08:02 PM

If you have the skill soldiers luck then it may be a good idea to send in ghosts, because of their intangability.  Attacks are MUCH more likely to miss them if you have soldiers luck.  To each their own.  I guess who you send in would be very situational anyway.  Each unit could have it's time to shine under the right circumstances.

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stargazer
stargazer


Famous Hero
hero of order and life
posted August 06, 2006 11:45 PM

A friend and i just got done with a very big map. He was dungeon with the best start hero at lvl 24 i was Slyvan with a random hero that got to 26. My ablity utterly wiped out his army. i managed to get inititive items and speed boots. all my creatures went before his he had alot of spells armogedon and implosion chain lightning and such empowered. BUt because of all my inititive my dragons wiped his out with my archers finishing his dragons off so no armogedon for him. We had about the same size army he got like 5 spells before i killed him. Which makes him wonder is the slyvin specalty to Good?
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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted August 12, 2006 12:22 AM

Try killing 1000+ skels archers with dungeon , without empowered implosion !!! If the skels are placed in a corner, and takes out the blood furies and the witches(perfectly possible to sacrifice 6 stacks for these two) you won't be able to hit him with more than one creature (drags, hydras and grinmm raiders are 4 sqares , and the minotaurs will reach when the battle is already over) and an ice bolt or a lightning bolt(empowered or not) ... cause meteor shower or chain lightning will damage your own troops , and the Vladimir Raise Dead will be enough for him to make up for the losses every turn ! so the only solution against skels is IMPLOSION (empowered IMPLOSION)... and the dungeon player might still lose, cause of low mana and hight cost implosion !

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 12, 2006 09:58 AM

he can (or rather: he will) still lose, because animate dead ressurects more than implo kills. sorry ;x
Playing vs. necro, you can't let'em get 1k skells. It's over then.

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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted August 12, 2006 10:21 AM

Quote:
he can (or rather: he will) still lose, because animate dead ressurects more than implo kills. sorry ;x
Playing vs. necro, you can't let'em get 1k skells. It's over then.


it does not ... empowered implosion does 60+60* SP and raise dead ressurects 240+30*SP

Since SP of a Warlock is >> 10 it will do much more damage than Raise Dead can ressurect ...And if you get the boots of earth , it is a carnage ! And 1000 skels are not that hard to obtain, and surely wont be able to stop a necro from doing that.

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RectusDominus
RectusDominus


Adventuring Hero
posted August 12, 2006 10:23 AM

u can take out 1k skells with Haven, take Dougal the marskman specialist, when he's lvl 18 for example all marksman get +9att&def, now train lots of peasents to archers and upgrade them to marksmen.
The difference between marksmen's att rating and sekeleton's defence rating is so big, a few hundred marksmen will do massive damage on those skeletons

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scooter_me
scooter_me


Adventuring Hero
posted August 12, 2006 10:24 AM

doom what are you talking about? ive beaten 1600 skellies once quite easily with dungeon. and it wasnt a specifictactic, i just played like i usually do. kill that which can deal the most damage asap. unless their initiative or speed is low

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 12, 2006 01:10 PM

Quote:
u can take out 1k skells with Haven, take Dougal the marskman specialist, when he's lvl 18 for example all marksman get +9att&def, now train lots of peasents to archers and upgrade them to marksmen.
The difference between marksmen's att rating and sekeleton's defence rating is so big, a few hundred marksmen will do massive damage on those skeletons


Well skellies play before marksmen and who knows how many of them will survive.And skellies often are under the effect of battle frenzy,archery and maybe a +1 damage artifact.
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RectusDominus
RectusDominus


Adventuring Hero
posted August 12, 2006 01:50 PM

Elvin ur forgetting squires, because of the squires in front of em marksmen take only half ranged damage
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 12, 2006 03:37 PM
Edited by Elvin at 15:39, 12 Aug 2006.

True but I don't like taking many parameters into account in simple situations.I might as well take into account that the necromancer will cast frenzy on the squires/confusion on the marksmen forcing you to wait until it is dispelled or that skellies will have a lucky attack.Or it can work the other way around-marksmen attacking with luck and blessed(divine strengthened).I don't believe the marksmen should be in such trouble most times but it depends.A skellie stack can be too numerous sometimes.Plus I'd rather shoot enemy paladins instead of marksmen.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 12, 2006 09:54 PM

ohh, sorry, didn't know the exact formula. My bad.

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RectusDominus
RectusDominus


Adventuring Hero
posted August 12, 2006 10:25 PM

lol doomforge

well I consider marksmen and squires as unseparable, and yeh dark magic is problematic but people almost never use it (atleast thats what I have experienced)
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 12, 2006 10:38 PM

Takes a while to get the spells and masteries you want.The primary focus is on necromancy and necros usually run around gathering armies before learning spells.Can't blame them
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RectusDominus
RectusDominus


Adventuring Hero
posted August 13, 2006 09:23 AM

lol yeh, personally I think it's a boring enterprise, goin on search frenzy for more potential skellies

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 13, 2006 08:22 PM

It's fun but only for so much.Necros don't fully utilise their creatures nor their magic because the spotlight is on the skellies.It feels wrong...And why all this preference of power over knowledge anyway?Makes you pursue skills you might otherwise not want for certain abilities.
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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted August 14, 2006 12:01 PM

well ... their creatures are quite snowty , with a few exceptions ... and the spells , should you really waste time and resources when Vladimir already has a super spell equiped ?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 14, 2006 01:50 PM

Unfortunately for me,I don't enjoy playing heroes with distinct advantages over others say Deleb,Vlad,sometimes Nathir in small maps.I almost feel bad to clear neutrals and enemies so easily-don't ask me why.It is reminiscent of the 'H3 campaign heroes' syndrome
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