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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Lvl 7 creatures... are they really worthed the money
Thread: Lvl 7 creatures... are they really worthed the money This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 21, 2006 09:25 PM

And did they also nerf the rediculous Rider Charge of the Grim Raiders?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 21, 2006 09:55 PM

used to be 20%, dunno how big it is now.

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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted August 22, 2006 02:39 PM

Lvl 7 buildings cheaper is a must! At least for colossi.
I'd say 5000 gold like the old giant building would be perfect , but I wouldn't mind 10000 either!

Also the Angel Building , max 15000-20000 ?! And Archangel 20000?

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rainalcar
rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted August 22, 2006 02:45 PM

Quote:

BTW what is the current percentage of jousting?I thought it was 10% but in a official homm forum it was said to be 5%.


It is 5%.

Week production of Paladins (2) jousting fully inflicts in average 2*25*(1+0,05*8)=70 base damage.

Week production of Black Dragons (1) inflicts 1*57=57 base damage (actualy 57,5). The Dragon has 6 attack more than the paladins, which can be roughly translated to a modifier of 1,3; therefore, the Dragons damage is 74.

Paladins are not the biggest damage doers (w/o Klaus ofcourse). Black Dragons, and likely Titans (haven't tested though) are 1st and 2nd. Ofcourse, two paladins cost 3100, while the black costs 4500+2s...
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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted August 22, 2006 02:54 PM

if it is 5% , we can say you are right. Anyway numbers are pretty close. And also Paladins have bigger initiative than blackies, so that really makes the competition closer.
Of course it is fine, that a lvl 6 is not better than all lvl 7s , but it is a really close race !

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rainalcar
rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted August 22, 2006 03:27 PM

Very true. I kind of like that that the 7th levels are not game tearing as before. I hope that we won't see anything like the Azure Dragon in the expansion
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TemjinGold
TemjinGold


Known Hero
posted August 22, 2006 03:43 PM

Quote:
Quote:

BTW what is the current percentage of jousting?I thought it was 10% but in a official homm forum it was said to be 5%.


It is 5%.

Week production of Paladins (2) jousting fully inflicts in average 2*25*(1+0,05*8)=70 base damage.

Week production of Black Dragons (1) inflicts 1*57=57 base damage (actualy 57,5). The Dragon has 6 attack more than the paladins, which can be roughly translated to a modifier of 1,3; therefore, the Dragons damage is 74.

Paladins are not the biggest damage doers (w/o Klaus ofcourse). Black Dragons, and likely Titans (haven't tested though) are 1st and 2nd. Ofcourse, two paladins cost 3100, while the black costs 4500+2s...


The pally's pad doesn't cost 40,000 gold either...
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RaZmuShaDoW
RaZmuShaDoW


Known Hero
The Sync Bug Hunter
posted August 23, 2006 08:42 AM

As all of you might know Black Dragons do have:
- flying ability (it works 100%, not like jousting)
- can hit two units in one attack (hard not to hit two even with lower initiative)
- imunity to magic (nice desert for such a powerfull unit)

That I guess motivates the huge price. Unfortunately I only build dragons later in the game most of the time... For Dungeon it's ussulaly hard to by all their units even without drags.

Going back to the topic - yes level 7 units are very expensive. You can only get them if you deserve them. On the other hand you can invest into some artifacts or other things (I guess perfect case is investing into training for heaven). You can win the game without 7 level units even if another player has them.

So i must admint that I approve the big prices for 7 level creatures.
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Drake-Hound
Drake-Hound

Tavern Dweller
posted August 23, 2006 06:59 PM

Well honestly by the time you can afford big enough quantity of level 7 troops to make them worthwhile the game is usually over.

So in that perspectief they are not really worthwhile.

Infact for Dungeon the deep Hydra is awesom even beter then the dragon for the price and free regeneration .

For Inferno , Mass amount of Pitlords with teleportation/gate beat those devils .

Sylvan definetly worthwhile since the ancient tree man stinks
The green dragons are a must.

Warlock the wights are awesome in attackpower and staying power compared to the price of bone dragon and time in developing them.

And no colosus are not really worthwhile only if you can upgrade them to titans.

level 7 troops are only worthwhile if the others have MASS of them.
4-5 level 7 troops are too easily killed especially compared to the price or the amount of lower tier troops you can get for them.
Again sure if there was no hero around and its only creature vs creature it might make sense.
But as it is now ,i really think they are not worth it .
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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted August 23, 2006 07:51 PM

Quote:

level 7 troops are only worthwhile if the others have MASS of them.
4-5 level 7 troops are too easily killed especially compared to the price or the amount of lower tier troops you can get for them.
Again sure if there was no hero around and its only creature vs creature it might make sense.
But as it is now ,i really think they are not worth it .


In a game I finished this morning I skipped Hyrdas and went for Black Dragons instead.  It paid off in castle sieges especially since my warlock didn't have logistics or light magic.
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jb239
jb239


Famous Hero
posted August 24, 2006 12:14 AM

From my experience I've found that it's better to skip level 7 creatures on a normal sized map and focus the funds on upgrading and buying the other 6 levels of creatures.

On larger maps it pays to build level 7 dwelling, but let them build up a few weeks until you can upgrade them. (just hope the plague doesnt hit)
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m4carbine
m4carbine


Hired Hero
posted August 24, 2006 07:51 AM

The thin with heroes5 is that level6 cratures are more powerful and expensive than they are in heroes3, so it is possible to skip level7 and focus on level6 creatures.

whenever i started getting level7s the ratio of level7 to level6 in my army is about 1:5, so the mass level6 are actually more effective.

If i play as haven i don't see a need to get angels becuase paladins are better.

With inferno i'd just get pit lord sice they are spellcaster and melee unit, they overshadow the power of my devils.

With sylvan, greenies are pretty much a must have since they are cheap and trees don't do enough damage.

Necropolis: never get bone dragons, i think wariths are better.

as for black dragons, maybe yes maybe no.

Academy, not point spending loads of money to get giants which are totally useless unless they become titans, just the lion guy.

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Sanyu
Sanyu


Known Hero
posted August 24, 2006 11:26 AM

I still think it's damn unfair that they dun allow Archdevil to ressurect Pit lords permanently. I mean, at the expense of my other units and one precious round and also, arch angels get to permanently ressurect.

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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted August 24, 2006 12:24 PM

of course you know that ArchDevils' ressurect is more than two times better than the one of the ArchAngels'... leting them do it permanently would allow converting all the demons to Pit Lords with no cost, and that would be totally imbalanced!

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 24, 2006 12:54 PM

Just 5 archdevils can summon 10 pit lords(at most) and thus can remain dangerous in small numbers.Such a summon just before the end of the battle can be disastrous.Archangels can't wait for too much lest their resurrection becomes too ineffective.
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Demortae
Demortae


Adventuring Hero
posted August 24, 2006 02:43 PM

All spellcasting units are more effective in smaller stacks, so if you have the space seperating your archdevils into 2 groups can be profitable.  If four archdevils summon a stack of 8 pitlords, their spellpower will be 13.  If two groups of 2 archdevils summon four pitlords each, both stacks will have 9 spellpower.

The level seven creatures as a whole aren't really neccessary on any of the maps currently, although they do strengthen the AI armies quite a bit.  The tier 6 creatures are certainly strong enough to compete with the tier 7, and for much lower cost.  I must admit, though, that I am much fonder of this setup than carrying around nothing but archangels and wiping out the map.  I do think that the dwelling at the very least should be reduced in price.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 24, 2006 03:24 PM

I wish it will at least for colossi/titans.But if the dwelling cost is 15000 or lower why not build it anyway?Use your tier 6 for fights and when you run out of them you will still have something to defend yourself.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 24, 2006 08:43 PM
Edited by Elvin at 20:46, 24 Aug 2006.

Currently I am at the end of subterranean treasures with inferno as my starting faction and Nebiros.I got exp logistics(no teleport assault),exp attack(excruciating strike,tactics),exp dark(master of mind),adv leadership(no gate master) and exp defence(evasion) but while the line up was effective and was able to buy regularly my army,had I not built devils as a failsafe I would be in trouble-many big battles most of which I fought leaving others relatively unscathed.I doubt I would lose but I'd certainly have more casualties and have to stay back for a while before I could go on the offensive.After all with an inferno hero you can solo for quite some time without reinforcements so finding the money is easy.It can't work for all factions this way but any other than haven and academy can make it.Of course not as fast as in H3 but even later it can pay off.A few notes:I hadn't planned to build my hero like that since the lvl ups weren't in my favour and I delayed a bit to upg hell chargers and pit fiends since I was in no imminent danger.In a more  agressive map I would be forced to upg hell chargers thus forgetting the devils,maybe for good.
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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted August 25, 2006 05:56 AM

I've been playing around with the idea of leaving some creatures out and going straight for the 7th tier building 'early'.  For example in my last game I left out Hydras (sulfur) and went for Black Dragons instead.  You might be able to get away with leaving out units in other factions too, at least until you have that top level dwelling accumulating creatures.

For example, I find the djinn useless so I sometimes don't build them at all and instead use a stack that joins me.

Good idea, bad?
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 25, 2006 11:15 AM
Edited by Elvin at 11:17, 25 Aug 2006.

Well genies are better to leave back so they can accumulate,1 or 2 for casting spells are enough.And it is always good to take other units so long as that doesn't affect your morale too much.Of course if you plan on doing it you might as well take diplomacy(a bit rare to get leadership though).But skip them altogether...
Back in H3 I had a warlock with diplomacy who over time had 120 zealots,70 dendroids etc and went for a 'final battle' against my friend.I lost and my friend said 'I won!'.Right I retreated,bought all of my town's army which was untouched for a while and easily defeated his already implosion-weakened(1 implosion could kill 5 archangels) army
However I have not used diplomacy that much in H5 to determine its strength though I know for sure that it is easier to get creatures from the same alignment and town.And I have seen many ask for money
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