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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Ridiculous experience-requirement in later levels.
Thread: Ridiculous experience-requirement in later levels.
Tunaria
Tunaria

Tavern Dweller
posted September 08, 2006 03:06 AM

Ridiculous experience-requirement in later levels.

Could also be called "Why you almost never get the ultimate skill"-topic.

Seriously, I think the scaling in how much XP is needed for the next level is unneccecary for the following reasons:

1 - You never get the ultimate skill, even if you tried, during both a singleplayer game(skirmish/campaign) and a multiplayer game. IF you are lucky enough to actually get it then congratulations to you, although chances are that you've basically won and won't actually use the skill.

2 - As mentioned above, you won't actually have the need for the skill anymore once you've got it.

3 - You'll be throwing gold away for more XP, since you will need to go through a huge amount of chests to get the last skills required for the ultimate. The XP gotten from the chests, regardless of amount and if you have the Enlightenment skill or not, only gives a fraction of the XP needed in total. You're wasting 30000+ gold to get enough XP in the middle to late twenties and beyond.

4 - Requires games to be long and drawn-out. In order to effectively get to the higher levels you have to win significant amount of huge battles and sieges(ie. 10k-20k XP per battle), either through huge 8-player games or 2-4 player games where all players attack eachother with huge armies on more than a couple occasions.

Personally I think Ubisoft should lessen the amount of XP required in the later levels in order to make the ultimate skills worth getting.

What do you guys think?

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rainalcar
rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted September 08, 2006 08:08 AM

I agree. The exponential growth requirement is way to high, and there is no particular scence about it.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 08, 2006 08:51 AM

I agree with this. There is more or less of an barrier at level 28, that you'll only pass by using Trees of Knowledge (Ancients of Syllana) and certain skills like Dark Revelation (btw. I wonder, why is there a Dark Revelation, and not a Light Revelation?).

Anyway, I second (or third) your call for the XP to be adjusted. I think the Heroes 3 XP scale worked pretty well, and that would make you reach level 60 or something on very large maps with many monsters and big battles.

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 08, 2006 08:57 AM

I guess I'll respond to every point:

1 - In theory you can get the ultimate skill before you get to lvl 30, I got one in the Inferno campaign. In order to do that you some luck and a very good understanding of the skill system. It's not easy but the ULTIMATE skill shouldn't be easy to get.

2 - The Instant Gating was a huge help because I could block enemy ranged units and almost double my firepower in one turn.

3 - This is true, treasure chest are not of much use in the late twenties. So I guess that's it's better to pick gold, especially 'cause you need it for your army.

4 - Well, you can't expect your hero being allpowerfull at the beginning...

I'd say that the exp requirements are getting REALLY ridiculous only after lvl 30, and until than you should have a very well developed hero.

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 08, 2006 09:03 AM

@alcibiades
I haven't seen your post when I posted...

I think the 30 lvl barrier is there so that leveling up will be more interesting. What is the point of getting your hero to level 60? After level 30 (more or less) you're already expert at everything with most of the abilities, further leveling up only enhances your stats, but your enemy also increases his stats, so what's the point?

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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Typo recoverey
posted September 08, 2006 11:00 AM

In some games, for instance runescape and other MMORPGs, it should be harder to level up to "ultimate" levels. But this should be different in othergames that dont last forever.

Not to say an ultimate skill should be able to be done in 5 hours (with the right circumstances) but it shouldnt take 15 hours right? How long does an XL map take anyways?
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Everyday im foraging foraging Fora-foraging

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Tunaria
Tunaria

Tavern Dweller
posted September 08, 2006 11:59 AM
Edited by Tunaria at 11:59, 08 Sep 2006.

Quite a while if there's 3-4 players or more...even ghost mode won't help much during the long wait time in the mid-game or end-game

@Geny:
1 - The ultimates shouldn't be easy to get, I agree on that. But as things are now, the ultimate skills are no more than a novelty.

2 - Inferno also gets some good skills if you choose the ones required for the ultimate. Unfortunately, not every faction is that lucky.

3 - Exaclty. I would rather be able to build and upgrade my Cloud Coliseum than using the chests to progress 1/30 on the XP-bar.

4 - Of course not. ^^ But it would be nice to be even able to get past lvl 30 without playing a game that lasts more than a single digit.

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Top-Rob
Top-Rob


Hired Hero
posted September 08, 2006 04:09 PM

Well, actually I'm glad the ultimate's rather impossible to achieve in a NORMAL multiplayer-game (who gets to be level 29, honestly ;-)). But I'm glad for the wrong reasons: I think the whole 'Ultimate'-thingy sucks. Not that it isn't a really good skill to have (well, most of the time, Knights are left in the cold). But I think it screws up the game, making you follow a list of preset skills instead of choosing what you think is best. If you could get your Ultimate at level 15, everybody could get it and the game would get old VERY soon.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 08, 2006 05:33 PM

Quote:
@alcibiades
I haven't seen your post when I posted...

I think the 30 lvl barrier is there so that leveling up will be more interesting. What is the point of getting your hero to level 60? After level 30 (more or less) you're already expert at everything with most of the abilities, further leveling up only enhances your stats, but your enemy also increases his stats, so what's the point?


Well, first of all, you have a total of 36 spell slots, so minus the two you have at beginning of game, the barrier should not hit before level 34 or 35. Once you've maxed out your skills, levelling up becomes less important, that's true, but you still get to improve your stats, which always counts for something. Plus you level will determine your hero attack damage against creatures, which might also be important.

And about the Ultimate Abilities, they should be difficult to get, but in the regular game version, you will have it earliest at level 30 - and that's only if you have a Hero with the correct starting skill and take no deviations on the path. Level 22 - 25 is more reasonable imo. After all, as the starter of the topic noticed, whats the point in getting the ability when you have fininshed off your opponents?

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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted September 08, 2006 06:01 PM

If you check out elrath.com there is a mod that changes the requirements for getting the ultimate.  I haven't used it (nor have I ever gotten the ultimate ability) but my understanding is it reduces the prerequisites from five skills to four skills.

This puts the level at which you gain the ultimate ability from around 22-28 which is where my characters usually end up in a multiplayer game.
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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 08, 2006 06:01 PM

I see your point, both with the skills and the ultimate...
So I guess raising the cap to lvl 35 could be nice. At that point you should be strong enough to kick the hell out of any creature.

As for the ultimate ability - if the cap is raised than you should get just before the really serious battles and that's the way it should be...

On the other hand I'm beginning to think ultimate ability is overrated so it shouldn't be a criteria. Yes it is very powerful, but in most cases you have to cripple your hero for it (Warlock without destructive magic).

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 08, 2006 07:27 PM

Quote:
On the other hand I'm beginning to think ultimate ability is overrated so it shouldn't be a criteria. Yes it is very powerful, but in most cases you have to cripple your hero for it (Warlock without destructive magic).


That's why you get the MOD that changes the pre-requisits for Ultimate Ability. MOD

And yes, some of the Ultimate Abilities are even really lousy - like Unstoppable Charge, which I managed to get in the campaign (with the MOD) but then I still used my hero to cast spells every turn, because that was much more usefull. But I am of principle against game features that never get into the game, as for the above discussed reasons.

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DragonLord3000
DragonLord3000


Known Hero
Romanian flamethrower
posted September 10, 2006 08:15 AM

Have to agree with this one,even on the vampire lord campaign,I can't reach level 28 with Findan,although I think will in a couple of weeks......yes,it has to be changed.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 10, 2006 02:49 PM

It's no exactly a crippling disadvantage.After all Findan can't get ultimate ability.
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TemjinGold
TemjinGold


Known Hero
posted September 10, 2006 02:52 PM

If you couldn't reach 28 on Vampire Lord map, you're probably doing something wrong. I reached level 30 on the Tieru map before it.
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