Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > MapHaven Guild > Thread: Map Editor - suggestions for Nival / Ubisoft
Thread: Map Editor - suggestions for Nival / Ubisoft
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 25, 2006 10:43 AM
Edited by Maurice at 13:01, 25 Sep 2006.

Map Editor - suggestions for Nival / Ubisoft

After having wrestled with the Map Editor last weekend, I have come across a number of things that could be upgraded / enhanced / updated. Some may pertain to the map editor itself, some to the game as a whole.

Map Editor issues:
1) The editor has a "fill" option for a certain marked area, but the amount of fill options are limited (only Dirt trees and a selection of Grass tree sets). Several suggestions I would make here:
- Allow the user to set a "forest density" (or "object density" or "fill density") with which the editor fills the area. Rather than fully planting it as it does now, it could also have a lighter spread. Several different densities should be available ("sparse", "medium", "heavy", "all", or so).
- More fill sets available. Besides trees, there are also things like bushes and grass objects. It would be useful to have a fill set that randomly picks from any of the available Dirt bushes, for instance.
- Allow the user to specify his/her own fill subsets, which can be used to fill an area.
2) When an area has been marked for filling, the editor should remember this area instead of forgetting it, once it performed a fill operation. The same area can be used for more than one fill operation (bushes, then trees, for instance - with a different density, perhaps).
3) Currently the editor will not accept it when an area to be filled has a hole in it, or when the area to be filled is actually comprised from several disconnected areas. The functionality should be enhanced so that it no longer refuses to fill multiple disconnected areas (just treat them as individual areas and repeat the fill operation on each area seperately with the same settings) or areas with a hole in it.
4) Allow the user to toggle graphical animations on or off when creating the map. Animations really bog down the editor, especially when a larger portion of the map is being viewed (something which happens much more commonly while creating the map, than when playing it). Animations while editing the map are nice eye candy, but nothing more than that.
5) Correct the passability feature, as it currently has a bug. When you display the passability of a map and hover an object over a land-based tile that is impassable, the red marker of the tile vanishes - quite annoying when you're trying to correctly place one or more objects. The red impassability marker remains on water surfaces, however.
6) Correctly calculate the impassability of (dense) forests. Right now it often misses squares where trees or other objects are definately blocking the hero's path. I have resorted to simply putting a mask over all of my forests to prevent all movement through dense forests.
7) Allow the user to toggle active impassability calculations on or off. While calculating the passability of an entire map may be somewhat cumbersome and taxing the CPU, the user is usually just editing small areas at a time. To keep those updated properly is trivial.
8) Correctly mark the textures of sloped terrain red when it's impassable. In the current implementation, a lot of sloped terrain is marked red, but the red marker disappears below the terrain texture instead (you can usually see the edges though). Makes it sometimes hard to see if the terrain can be travelled through by the hero.
9) The HoMM3 editor used spheres for random elements (treasures, monsters) on the map, HoMM5 uses all cubes. Since artifacts and monsters have the same darkblue color, it can be sometimes hard to distinguish the monsters from the artifacts at a glance. My suggestion is to either use different colors (probably easiest), or make one of the two a sphere instead. Since artifacts are rotating during the game, my suggestion would be to make the random artifacts sperical while editing (and remove the option to rotate them while editing, since this is a useless condition for artifacts anyway).

Game issues:
A) When placing random monsters, the user should have more control over what the player will face ingame. There is quite a difference between a Tier-1 unupgraded stack and a Tier-1 upgraded stack, when both have same numbers; the latter is much more difficult. I would suggest to have an additional option for random monsters, with three possible choices:
- Stack has no upgraded creatures
- Allow for a mix of unupgraded and upgraded creatures (default)
- Stack has only upgraded creatures
B) Allow the user to place pre-determined armies (in essence, this would allow for a stack of mixed neutrals, for instance). Looking at it in a basic way, they would be a static army without a hero, or not in a garrison. I didn't look into it, but this may be possible through scripting - not sure though.
C) When placing Creature Dwellings, you have a selection of Military Outposts. The pre-set Outposts (one for each faction) allow further modification, where it can be set which of the Tier-4 through Tier-7 creatures can be purchased. However, when you place a Random Military Outpost, you can only opt for one specific Tier (and no others). A Random Military Outpost should be added that can produce Tier-4 through Tier-7 at the same time (as set in the objects' properties).
D) It is possible to set the Random Type of Creature Dwellings to one of the following: "Full Random", "Random As Player X", and "Random As Town At location X, Y". You cannot do so for Random Monsters. Monsters should also be able to receive the option to be a random of the same type as some other object.
E) In light of point D, it would be useful to add another option, namely "Random As Creature Dwelling At Location X, Y". This would make it possible for instance to have a Random Creature Dwelling, with the corresponding creature guarding it.
F) To allow for more control over just how random Towns, Creature Dwellings and Creatures can be, the Random option should get another option: "Random As From Sub-list", with a small listing that has an "add" and "remove" button. The possible selections are the various factions, where any and all factions can be selected. For instance a map may be set up as part forest/grass and part desert. The random monsters appearing in forest/grass could be randomly selected from Haven and Sylvan creatures, while the Creature Dwellings in the wasteland area are randomly selected from the Academy and Inferno factions (with matching creatures guarding them). Underground areas might have Towns randomly chosen from the Inferno, Dungeon or Necropolis factions.

Anyone know how I can bring these points up to the guys at Ubisoft / Nival?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 25, 2006 11:28 AM

Excellent proposals all of them.

Check you Heroes Community messages.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
ImNotaTroll
ImNotaTroll


Hired Hero
posted September 25, 2006 09:26 PM

Where's the fun in masking the forest I perfer long treks through the forest
Plus you can get creative and have hidden paths that only moving the mouse over will show

Soooo maybe we leave the forest along
IMO the editor wasnt ment for public use but was cleaned up and sent out to us to keep us happy for the time being O.o

Some players on the map have no names 123/219


____________
I'm not a troll I just look like one, and yes thats Kfc I'm eating Mmmmm good.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 25, 2006 10:47 PM

Quote:
Where's the fun in masking the forest I perfer long treks through the forest
Plus you can get creative and have hidden paths that only moving the mouse over will show

Soooo maybe we leave the forest along
IMO the editor wasnt ment for public use but was cleaned up and sent out to us to keep us happy for the time being O.o

Some players on the map have no names 123/219




You can still make forests that allow for hidden paths and such . I am only suggesting for improvements to disable unexpected hidden paths - unexpected for the creator of the map, that is . Also keep in mind that such hidden paths are taken along in the AI computations, so making sure they can't pass through unexpectedly will also cut down pathing calculations ingame.

Furthermore, Nival did initially use it for internal development of the game only, but they have since released it - and it will be an official part of the Expansion as well. As such, it becomes a program feature available for users. And well, users are just a greedy, ne'er-satisfied bunch 'o whiners , they demand a smooth, crystal-clear UI!

But I am more than happy to know that Nival will keep polishing the Editor over time, so I am merely trying to contribute to that process.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ambidext
Ambidext


Adventuring Hero
Wandering knight
posted September 26, 2006 09:33 AM

I wonder why they didn't think of hiring the original Heroes staff to do all this. All the prequels were released in a complete and near bug-free condition. Yes they were cheap to release expansions slowly to earn money, but still, they original game was at least complete.

In H5 you have fans doing 1/5 the work for Nival. Testing, game manuals, suggestions and all. H5 is getting more and more like wikipedia. >.> Fan-based contribution.

Pretty obvious the staff lack experience and overtook something they couldn't handle. Good effort but they really should have bought over the core staff over since 3DO closed down anyway.

But so far this editor I must say, it's pretty powerful(if it were complete). It's so much easier to use than H3 and H4 editors. When I saw the maps initially, I thought the editor is gonna be only programmer-friendly. Visual basic and stuff. The maps got that little WC3 ressemblance.

Really hope, the Random Map Generator will be much better than the H3 SOD one.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
dragoni
dragoni


Hired Hero
posted September 26, 2006 11:49 AM

Great suggestions all of them.

The 2 that I mostly want to see:
-animations on/off option
-Allow us to edit the neutrals more. (able to create mixed neutrals)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Mantra
Mantra


Adventuring Hero
posted September 27, 2006 10:20 AM

Very good post Maurice, 10/10. Good argumentation for each suggestion, and nicely presented. Posts like these really help the game.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 27, 2006 11:01 AM

I just received a reply from Nival on these suggestions. While he didn't go into any detail, he said some of them were already being considered by the team and he thanked me for the suggestions I made.

I guess we'll have to see how many they will eventually pick up .

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread »
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0435 seconds