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| Thread: Sunken Aquarium - Mermarian Ocean Town | |
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 30, 2006 08:44 PM |
bonus applied. |
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Sunken Aquarium - Mermarian Ocean Town
They told me to put it in its own thread.. so here it is.
A version of the Atlantian-like town.
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Mermarian Sunken Aquarium
More of a Greek Atlanta Theme. Mermarian appear more like a sea-elf, with blue skins and gills. They could also shape change to have a more sea-eel like form, and can also change half to be just one form and other half to be another. Control a vast under-sea empire.
Creatures
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Sea Floater / Man of War
Not a very powerful creature, play more like a Pixie. However, their stunt touch would help reducing the effective of their enemies, helpful against the higher levels.
Attack: 1/2
Defense: 1/1
Damage: 1-2 / 1-3
Hit Points: 4 /5
Speed: 6 /6
Initiative: 12 /13
Shoots:
Mana:
Abilities:
Flyers, Amphibian, No enemy retaliation / Stunt Touch*
*Stunt Touch: Reduce the imitative of attack creature by half
Mermarian Harpooner / Mermarian Trident
Basic level two shooter like the Archer. However, can do additional damage if can line multiple target in one shot.
Attack: 3/4
Defense: 2/3
Damage: 2-5 / 2-6
Hit Points: 8 /10
Speed: 4 /4
Initiative: 7 /7
Shoots: 6 /8
Mana:
Abilities:
Shooter, Amphibian / No Melee Penalty, Penetrating Throw*
* Penetrating Throw: Like Magic attack, hit all creatures in the line of attack.
Giant Turtle / Steel Back
The tanker of the bunch. Very very slow, but also have the best defense and hit point. Not very useful in attacking, but does help if your hero is a mage type.
Attack: 4/6
Defense: 5/8
Damage: 2-4 / 2-6
Hit Points: 36 /40
Speed: 4 /4
Initiative: 5 /4
Shoots: 6 /8
Mana:
Abilities:
Amphibian, Large Creature, Shell In* / Spike Shell**
* Shell In: Gain 50% more defense when go in defensive mode.
** Spike Shell: Inflect damage back to any melee attackers.
Naiads / Siren
Have very weak stats, barely can be pass off as a decent shooter. However, they biggest advantage is their mind-related spell, and their upgraded ability is a great counter to any ranger shooter creatures.
Attack: 6/7
Defense: 5/7
Damage: 6-12 / 6-8
Hit Points: 32 /30
Speed: 5 /6
Initiative: 10 /8
Shoots: 5 / 4
Mana: 15 / 18
Abilities:
Amphibian, Shooter, Caster*, Immunity to Water, Immunity to Mind Control / Song of Seduction**
*Spells: Slow, Confuse / Frenzy
** Song of Seduction: Active ability. Draw a select creature in, making it attempt to move as close to the Siren as possible, and loose half of its accumulated initiative.
Couatl / Rainlord
The Flyer of the group. Not a really a strong attacker, but have some attack spells to use. With Nimble and unlimited retaliation, could park them at back of enemy line. The Rain caller ability will greatly help rest of your amphibian troops.
Attack: 12/14
Defense: 12/14
Damage: 8-18 / 6-24
Hit Points: 54 /62
Speed: 7 /8
Initiative: 15 /16
Shoots:
Mana: 8 / 14
Abilities:
Flyer, Caster*, Nimble**, unlimited retaliation, Hypnotize Gaze***/ Rain Caller****
* Spells: Ice Bolt, Circle of Winter
**Nimble: 25% chance of evade any physical attacks.
***Hypnotize Gaze: active ability, target a selected creature (must be only 1 sq away), and that creature will be hypnotize and not take any action. The hypnotize will break off if the hypnotized creature is attack, of if Couatl is attacked or take another action.
****Rain Caller: active ability, increase one level of flooding on the battlefield.
Mermarian Summoner/ Mermarian Queen
Low in attack and defense, but a powerful caster. The Flood will be similar to Hero?fs ability, and greatly help other amphibian units.
Attack: 18/20
Defense: 16/18
Damage: 15-22 / 15-24
Hit Points: 70 /80
Speed: 4 /4
Initiative: 8 /9
Shoots: 4 /4
Mana: 14 / 18
Abilities:
Amphibian, Shooter, Caster*, Mana Destroyer / Mana Feed, Mana Stealer, Mana Drain.
*Spells: Ice Bolt, Circle of Winter, Summon Water Elemental (12 mana), Flood (6 mana)
Kraken / Scylla
Very powerful creature, have lots attack and health. Drawback is their slow speed and movement. (much like a lv 7 hydra) They will be come more powerful if keep the battle field flooded.
Attack: 28/32
Defense: 30/34
Damage: 45-70 / 40-80
Hit Points: 220 /260
Speed: 5 /5
Initiative: 8 /8
Shoots:
Mana:
Abilities:
Amphibian, Large Creature, Spread Attack, No Enemy Retaliation, Siege Attack*/ Feed**, 6 Head-Attack
*Siege Attack: Can attack castle walls in a siege.
**Feed: Gain a small percentage of damage deal back as health, similar to life drain.
Most of the Aquarium creatures have lower stats, but many are mean casters. Also their power will increase with Hero?fs ability of Flooding.
There are also lots different Alternative creatures that could be put in, like Sharks, Peranaes, Water/Sea Dragon, etc.
Heroes Ability
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Aquarium Heroes are call Sorceress or Summoned. As the name imply, they are more of Magic than Might. They specialize more of the summoning and water/destructive magic.
They also have a special racial skill call Flooding. On use, (as an active ability or spell, depend on the hero?fs development), will Flood the battle field one level. A field can be flooded to max of 5 levels, each with various effect.
Flood Level 1: Puddle:
All Amphibian Creature gain 1 extra initiative.
Flood Level 2: Shallow:
All Amphibian Creature gain 1 extra speed + all above
Flood Level 3: Pool:
All Amphibian Creature gain 2 extra defense + all above
All Land bound Creature reduce by 1 speed
Flood Level 4: Ocean:
All Amphibian Creature gain Dive ablity + all above
All Land bound Creature reduce 1 initiative + all above
Flood Level 5: Deep:
All Amphibian Creature treated as Flyer + all above
All Land bound Creature have 10% chance to fail attack, and suffer 5 hp damage each turn + all above
Also at level 4 and 5, all Amphibian creature can gain a Dive active ability, which allow them to dive under the water. They have 75% chance of evading normal attack when dive, but only have half the moving speed. The Dive stat will end if the creature attack or use skills. After dive, they need to come up for air, which add extra imitative after their dive turn, so they will stay un-dive bit longer before they can dive again.
Also will need to add a Drain spell for other Heroes to counter against the Flooding.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 30, 2006 11:18 PM |
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Like I said before, this is a very good and well considered town. But I think it needs some history before we can fully judge it.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 01, 2006 12:42 PM |
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I have one short question: How do we envision the Kraken to move on land? 
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted October 01, 2006 06:49 PM |
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Wow.. I like this. A marine faction that sounds workable. Great idea!
A few concerns:
1. Why are there 5 levels to the racial skill, flooding? There are only 4 levels for other racial abilities.
2. I find that the 5th level of flooding is too powerful.
3. The Dive ability seems too powerful. Can you change it to "cannot attack unless the creature re-surface" or something to the like? And further, please allow shooters to shoot if the creatures are diving next to them.
4. How will fire spells be affected by flooding? Can fireball etc. affect diving creatures?
5. The kraken/ scylla looks too powerful.
6. With so many creatures who can flood the field, it is too easy to raise the flood level. Very unfair to other factions it seems?
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 01, 2006 07:14 PM |
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Quote:
Wow.. I like this. A marine faction that sounds workable. Great idea!
A few concerns:
1. Why are there 5 levels to the racial skill, flooding? There are only 4 levels for other racial abilities.
2. I find that the 5th level of flooding is too powerful.
3. The Dive ability seems too powerful. Can you change it to "cannot attack unless the creature re-surface" or something to the like? And further, please allow shooters to shoot if the creatures are diving next to them.
4. How will fire spells be affected by flooding? Can fireball etc. affect diving creatures?
5. The kraken/ scylla looks too powerful.
6. With so many creatures who can flood the field, it is too easy to raise the flood level. Very unfair to other factions it seems?
Thx for reading
1&2) Flooding Level is not a racial skill. It is just a stat of the battle field. It is accumulative, meaning you add it on. So they could have a racial ablity (or a univeral spell) of flooding, which will add 1 leve of flooding to the battle field. And to get it to lv 5, need to cast it atleast 5 times. (or from the creature) It has powerful effect, but are very slow to build up. Of couse, would also need to add counter measure to this, such as a Drain spell, and problably make it with a lasting duration of 3 turn per a level of flooding, etc.
3) Dive is powerful, but again, you won't be able to dive off the bat. Need atleast 4 or 5 level of flooding. Its something that I think is "Cool", but could always do away with.
4) Interesting question. Could add where fire do more damage if its only 1 or 2 level of flooding to the aqua creature, more less if there are more flooding.
5) kraken's stat could tone down. I am thinking that this creature is not too great on dry land (slow move), but only when get enough flooding will it be a powerhouse.
6) Yes, need to add addtional constrain the flooding and creature cause flooding. One way would be make it into a spell that take mana, and with the cost that would make them only be able to cast 1 or 2 at time, and have the water drain when that creature dies. (also the 3 turn lasting duration per level)
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To alc... well... ever see a squid on land? I guess could explain by magical means, where they create a magical pool of water underneath them.
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted October 01, 2006 07:50 PM |
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Oh. I was thinking that it is a racial ability, such that:
Basic flooding - able to create level 1 flood.
Advance flooding - able to create level 2 flood.
Expert flooding - able to create level 3 flood.
True that it takes time "building" the flood. But you are able to build a level 5 flood within round 2 (based on iniative 10)? Or round 1 if I even split the creatures? I have a feeling that it will be more irritating than facing a stack of ghosts.
As for diving, I fear the misuse of the ability. The rainlord and mermarian queen can dive to avoid being killed. The man of war can dive near enemy shooters so that they will not be able to shoot while you are diving, and it is tough to get rid of them since they evade 75% of the damages.
For a typical strategy:
Split your units in the following manner: kraken, siren, steel back, rainlord, rain lord, mermarian queen, mermarian queen.
With the rain lords, mermarian queens and the hero, summon a level 5 flood within the first turn. Send the steel backs near the enemy archers and defend. Pair the sirens with the kraken and "swim" near the centre of the battle field and use the "song of seduction". With all the creatures approaching the siren, the Kraken can attack most of them with its 6 headed massive attack and no retaliation. And with its feed ability, it will be virtually unkillable.
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 01, 2006 08:37 PM |
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Quote:
Oh. I was thinking that it is a racial ability, such that:
Basic flooding - able to create level 1 flood.
Advance flooding - able to create level 2 flood.
Expert flooding - able to create level 3 flood.
True that it takes time "building" the flood. But you are able to build a level 5 flood within round 2 (based on iniative 10)? Or round 1 if I even split the creatures? I have a feeling that it will be more irritating than facing a stack of ghosts.
As for diving, I fear the misuse of the ability. The rainlord and mermarian queen can dive to avoid being killed. The man of war can dive near enemy shooters so that they will not be able to shoot while you are diving, and it is tough to get rid of them since they evade 75% of the damages.
For a typical strategy:
Split your units in the following manner: kraken, siren, steel back, rainlord, rain lord, mermarian queen, mermarian queen.
With the rain lords, mermarian queens and the hero, summon a level 5 flood within the first turn. Send the steel backs near the enemy archers and defend. Pair the sirens with the kraken and "swim" near the centre of the battle field and use the "song of seduction". With all the creatures approaching the siren, the Kraken can attack most of them with its 6 headed massive attack and no retaliation. And with its feed ability, it will be virtually unkillable.
Good Point of couse.
Yes, I need to find a better counter measure against having multiple creature doing flooding. I still like the battle field changing nature of that skill, and how it ties in with the overall improvment of the aqua creatures, but as said, getting to lv 5 flooding in one turn is too powerful.
Could possibly change to where you can only flood the field once per heros' turn, and that it is tie to Hero's ablity. (so a low level hero can oly flood the field to max of level 2, while a max out hero can flood to lv 5).
Of couse, other balancing suggestions are welcome. (It is not "perfect" afterall)
Oh, and a minor note, Song of seduction can only be target one creature.
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted October 01, 2006 09:05 PM |
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Arh. My humble apologies. I guess I missed that out.
But I'll still be able to "lure" some creatures to the mouth of the kraken, which makes the low speed of the kraken less of a problem.
Definitely skills/ spells that changes the field is good (in my opinion) in terms of gameplay. Just find that the level 5 flooding maybe too powerful(for me). I am quite sore about the wizard unable to alter the battlefield in anyway actually. More field changing skills should have been included.
And dive is a good strategical abiltiy, as long as it does not hinder shooters. A teleported diving turtle isn't exactly something that shooters will like to see, I think.
Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 01, 2006 09:20 PM |
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Quote:
Arh. My humble apologies. I guess I missed that out.
But I'll still be able to "lure" some creatures to the mouth of the kraken, which makes the low speed of the kraken less of a problem.
Definitely skills/ spells that changes the field is good (in my opinion) in terms of gameplay. Just find that the level 5 flooding maybe too powerful(for me). I am quite sore about the wizard unable to alter the battlefield in anyway actually. More field changing skills should have been included.
And dive is a good strategical abiltiy, as long as it does not hinder shooters. A teleported diving turtle isn't exactly something that shooters will like to see, I think.
Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
Hehe, I do like that Siren/Kraken combo....
The attack/defense/hp power of Kraken could be lower if needed (its hard to come up with the exact number if you cann't play test), but I would still keep the 6 head attack.
The turtle's speed could be reduce to 3 (which if get flood up to lv2, it would be 4) A diving turtle is powerful, but also take lots time to be a threat to the backline (first need to flood the field to 5, take a turn to dive, move, go up for air (wait few int), dive again, and so on, all with their int of 4+1.
For flooding.. how about this...
change the duration of flooding depend on the number of creature in the stack. (so if its only one creature who casue the flooding, that level of flood will only last for 1 turn).. and up to max of 3 turns. A creature casting flooding can not be cast again until what they cast before receded. And that summon of water would be gone if the summoner die. (hero's flooding ablity is still up for discussion)
So you could make the field flood to lv 5 in one turn... but it would also be gone in 1 turn. The Rainlord could maintain it, but the Summoner will cost mana. Therefore, would be a problem if not use it at the right timing.
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted October 01, 2006 10:11 PM |
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it looks ok but you have to cut the krakens dmg in half because its a multi no retal attack like hydra which means it must have less dmag in 1 hit than the average 7thm not MORE, lol.
I love the flooding but the dive ability hmm how about 25% chance to evade isntead, we dont wanna make this an "I win" town..
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 01, 2006 10:42 PM |
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Quote:
it looks ok but you have to cut the krakens dmg in half because its a multi no retal attack like hydra which means it must have less dmag in 1 hit than the average 7thm not MORE, lol.
I love the flooding but the dive ability hmm how about 25% chance to evade isntead, we dont wanna make this an "I win" town..
I guess could cut the "No Enemy Retaliation" from its ablity.
On diving...
Diving is a active ablity, and would take 1 turn. So in pratice.. will go like so...
first, need to get the flooding level to 4 or above.
2nd, once its that creature's turn, select Dive, and it will go under water (but can not do anything else for that turn)
3rd, wait for its turn again (depend on its inti) and choose to move or attack or take action. Doing any action other than move will surface them.
4th, on its next turn (if still in diving), they can move or take action, but in any case, will be force to resurface at the end of this turn. Any time they resurface, it add few extra Inti before their next turn.
5h, once its their turn again, they can choose to dive or take other action.
If the water level goes down below level 4, it will also reveal and surface any diving creatures.
As can see, its mean to be more of a defensive move, but take long time to do. And it has a "gap" time, the time where they are slow when surface, where other can attack before it dive again.
Atleast thats how I hope it would work... but what is on paper may not always be the same as how its really use.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 01, 2006 10:49 PM |
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I do think it's very innovative, and that's always a very good start. Just one comment, however - since the creatures are amphibeous or aquatic, it does seem very odd to me that the creatures need to rise to the serface to get air!?
I think another approach would be better - let them be submerged for as long as they want to (until they attack, of course) and give them only 50 % cover (effectively granting them the incorporeality ability when submerged). One might even wan't to nerf the ability even more, and then make flooding times quicker or something - I catch myself thinking if one would in reality really use this ability? I mean, how often do you fight battles of 5+ rounds duration where it wouldn't actually make more sense to let you Hero either attack or cast a spell?
You might wanna give the Hero some abilities to reduce his Initiative loss when using flooding (just like Sorcery when you cast spells).
EDIT > And I'm still sceptical with creatures that are entirely aquatic to enter the game. It seems very unlikely for me to encounter such a creature in the dessert or on the plains.
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 01, 2006 11:07 PM |
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Quote:
I do think it's very innovative, and that's always a very good start. Just one comment, however - since the creatures are amphibeous or aquatic, it does seem very odd to me that the creatures need to rise to the serface to get air!?
I think another approach would be better - let them be submerged for as long as they want to (until they attack, of course) and give them only 50 % cover (effectively granting them the incorporeality ability when submerged). One might even wan't to nerf the ability even more, and then make flooding times quicker or something - I catch myself thinking if one would in reality really use this ability? I mean, how often do you fight battles of 5+ rounds duration where it wouldn't actually make more sense to let you Hero either attack or cast a spell?
You might wanna give the Hero some abilities to reduce his Initiative loss when using flooding (just like Sorcery when you cast spells).
EDIT > And I'm still sceptical with creatures that are entirely aquatic to enter the game. It seems very unlikely for me to encounter such a creature in the dessert or on the plains.
Well, as said, some creatures can cast flooding too, but its lasting duration would depend on the creature stack.
could make it where when dive, at lv 4, will have 50% cover, and in lv5 flood, have 75% cover. (also could have where they only get 25% cover from flying creature)
Since I am thinking its not easly to keep maining a deep level of flooding, it should be alright.
Also why do they go up for air? Well.. I will run for my magic excuse and say magical water have less air...
Some hero's special ablity could include:
Water Bed: Always flood the battle field by 1 level.
Drowning: If the water level reach lv 3 or above, all land creature take X damage every turn.
Crushing Wave: Every time there is a flooding (from hero or creature), all land-bound creature take a small X damage.
Great Flood: The battle will start at lv 3 flooding, but every passing turn it receed one level.
Liquid Ice: Water type spell do extra damage if there are any level of flood present.
Marian Commander: Increase the stats of all Amphibian creatures in flooding.
Submariner: Allow Amphibian to active their dive ablity at lv 3 flooding.
Racial Ablity could be:
Flooding Level 1: Allow battle field to flood to max of lv 3.
Hero can cast Minor Flood (active ablity) which flood 1 level that last for 3 turns. (can be cast multiple turns and is stack)
Flooding Level 2: Allow battle field to flood to max of lv 4.
Hero can cast Major Flood (active ablity) which flood 1 level that last for 4 turns.
Flooding Level 3: Allow battle field to flood to max of lv 5.
Hero can cast Great Flood (active ablity) which flood 1 level that last for 5 turns.
Flooding Ultimate Level:
Hero can cast Destructive Flood (active ablity) which flood 2 level that last for 5 turns, and damage it will damage all land-bound creatures for X damage.
Some of the assocated spell would be...
Drain: Reduce flooding level by 1..3 (depend on hero level)
Sunken Land: Flood battle field to lv 3...5 (depend on hero level), but only last for 1 turn.
Aqua Life: turn a land bound creature to be consider as a Amphibian for next few turns.
Whirle Pool: Create a large while pool (use only if there are level of flooding), that will damage and slow down all creature around it. damage depend on level of flooding.
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Oh.. and for the aqua life on land thing....
Well.. They are Summoners... so the fishies don't travel around with the hero.. instead are being call in when they are needed. (else they would be waiting in a "pocket" dimension with lots waters to keep them wet and happy...
Or they could have a big orb of water that float around....
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted October 02, 2006 02:30 AM |
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Quote:
EDIT > And I'm still sceptical with creatures that are entirely aquatic to enter the game. It seems very unlikely for me to encounter such a creature in the dessert or on the plains.
However, with the flooding skill it IS theoretically possible.. these powerful aquiatic heroes and creatures can summon their own flood to ride through the landscape, AWESOME!! 
Maybe isntead of a horse or an elephant, these heroes can seem to ride on huge tidal waves on the adventure map?
As you know it takes alot to make me think something is a good idea, but this is a town I would really like to play, and it would be the extra spice to make h5 expansion 2 worth getting 
so, 4 outta 5  
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted October 02, 2006 06:53 AM |
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Edited by Consis at 06:53, 02 Oct 2006.
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Um . . .
What about the Atlantis thread that Svarog created?
 http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=12821
I thought his ideas for the Atlantis town were fantastic! Is there some way to link this thread to the earlier one made by Svarog?
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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actionjack
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 02, 2006 07:17 AM |
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Quote:
What about the Atlantis thread that Svarog created?
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=12821
I thought his ideas for the Atlantis town were fantastic! Is there some way to link this thread to the earlier one made by Svarog?
I must say I never read that read before till today.
But alot of idea is to credit to alcibiades, whos Naga town is a great inspirational source for this.
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cantaresg
Known Hero
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posted October 02, 2006 12:42 PM |
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But isn't the thread from 2004, meaning its referring to Heroes IV probably? Ideas can be borrowed from it though.
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