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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Academy ain't that bad?
Thread: Academy ain't that bad? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 26, 2006 04:32 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 16:36, 26 Nov 2006.

Academy ain't that bad?

You know, i played a bit with academy and it seems not so bad. With havez, that is. Once you get the tent, you can do most of the map with 100-150 gremlins and 15 arch mages surrounded by 4 stacks of obsidian gargs.

Obsidian gargs are very cheap, numerous and durable, so even if 20 dies throughout the week, there is another 20-40 to join you in the castle.. Mages and gremlins (thanks to havaz's bonus) score damage decent enough to kill most of the things, and mark of the wizard+damage spell+enlightment+huge knowledge/sp is a good damage dealer aswell.. what's even better, havez starts with ballista, which - thanks to his huge knowledge - can score damage equal to 5 titans or so around level 14.. yes!

The resource costs are huge but it never felt bad. Resource silo early and titans aren't a problem to get. The most problematic is the raksasha dwelling/upg, so you need to get a few mines fast (or resourcefulness ), but the lions are well worth it.. I had little problem with creeping every mine, even protected by druid elders, once I hit tent + 140 gremlins + 15 arch mages, and that's VERY easy to get.. Enemies LOVE to focus on gremlins, and since they aren't very important in late game (since they deal poor damage even with havaz's bonuses) you can eventually sacrifice them when creeping.. but to tell you the truth, that is not so important, they never die with tent..

Lategame isn't that bad aswell. The creatures are kinda expensive, but suprisingly, gremlins+archmage+obsidian garg army is a very strong and potent one and I had little problem with defending my town.. it's even good to rush (yup!) so you may try your luck rushing haven..

And the army looks beautiful. At least for me. Titans, raksashas, djinns, archmages.. hell, I love their design.

Luck artifacts are a must (with luck and perhaps a luck artie) to grant you mass-luck-hits.. and through consume artie, you can ressurect units, which is good.. Wizard with enlightment is nearly as strong as a warlock, assuming he uses MOTW. And since the enemy always has the "biggest and baddest" stack (marksmen, skellies) - MOTW is a must here : ) And it's free double damage.. The average damage is equal to lucky empowered spell with 50% lucky shots! And, since wizards have literally a TON of mana.. You can shoot and shoot and never run out of it.

Overall, academy suddenly became my favorite - even if considered a underdog.. it has a lot potential, it's beautiful, the town theme is great and there are a lot of strategies. Sure it can't beat overpowered dougal crap, but 1.5 is said to balance out training (hopefully..)..

The only thing I don't like in academy is their heroes.. I really don't know what to take as I level-up. Since neither destructive nor dark is their main magic school, it's a damn lottery to hope for good destructive/dark spells in the guild.. As for now, I always take warmachines (ballista scores great damage, tent is godly as always) and enlightment (obvious) and luck (resourcefulness and the obvious impact of the luck on the game). Any ideas for other three picks?

Well, bye-bye inferno 1.3 crippled you just too much with those ridiculous costs.

Long live academy!


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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 26, 2006 06:02 PM
Edited by Elvin at 18:03, 26 Nov 2006.

Welcome to the club!
Just because of relatively low spellpower you may find sorcery very important.Unlocks counterspell too Light magic and summoning work well with academy creatures.Light for mass buffs,teleport and resurrection-Summoning for wall of fog,s. elementals,phoenix,phantom forces,fire trap(exp).Consider motw with raise dead,p.forces,wasp swarm and arcane armor.

Then the next most useful I find is enlightenment or luck.With luck I usually go for resourcefullness and resistance(sometimes people think that magic arrow will take care of my clones for sure).Alternatively with enlightenment you need the luck arties but gain on spellpower and knowledge(mini arties).

For the rare skills what I find appealing is logistics and defence.Through defence you get a mass buff as well as a good damage reduction and logistics unlocks that teleport assault,not to mention what it does to the golems.I will consider dark if I get slow/weakness and destructive when against warlocks.Love sap magic and fiery wrath!

That's what I like about academy too-it's potential and so many various combos.But golems and rakshasas need a resource rebalancing-as in reduction- as do the arties if it is to get multiplayer competitive.Currently it isn't
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted November 26, 2006 06:10 PM

Veeery nice post. Good to see someone stand up for my beloved Academy.

As for the skills:

SORCERY is an absolute must for the Wizard imo. It will let you cast spells more often (sweet ). Furtheremore, Counterspell is extremely accessible, and is for me a very usefull skill (albeit mostly when playing in the defensive - i.e. not focussing on Destructive Magic). You will bless your Counterspell the day you are up against a Necromancer with Phantom Forces! Other usefull Abilities in Sorcery are Magic Insight (skip Summoning Magic and still have Phantom Forces) and Mana Regeneration, Arcane Training or Erratic Mana - all of which will help you *never* run out of Mana!

Light Magic is my most beloved Magic School, but is also a school that sits well with the Academy. Not only will it grant you access to mass effects of Haste, Endurance, Cleansing, Divine Strength and Righteous Might spells (depending on which Abilities you select), but will also open up for the Resurrection spell, which you'll have good chance of achieving with Light Magic as one of your major schools plus the Library (and even after the nerfing, it's still a great spell to use, especially on your shooters - and Academy has a lot of shooters). Also, Teleport can come in handy, also in a combination with March Of The Golems and Teleport Assault, which will make your Golems a *very* usefull unit to block enemy shooters.

Finally, Logistics, if you get the chance, is a possible choice - especially if you have access to a lot of Golems. Logistics is *always* usefull, and with two special Abilities for the Academy - March Of The Golems and Teleport Assault - you'll get extra effect of your Golems.
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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted November 26, 2006 07:41 PM

Well, great that someone finally give us poor people some tips on these mighty magic warriors! This is through out the whole HoMM the best town EVER! But after 4 games, they gets weakend! I didn't want to believe it... So now im just happy that you guys give it some effort and tell us people what to do with these great titans!!

And i will agree with Doomforge about Havez being the great hero of the academy town! He is so great in low lvl's and when you get some great stuff with him he rocks at high lvls too...

Great thanks for all your tips

P.S MOTW what does that stands for? I can figure it out

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 26, 2006 07:47 PM

motw = mark of the wizard

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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted November 26, 2006 08:18 PM

I just feel like MotW is useless if you use light magic or viceversa ... it would be great if you could put your hands on some implosion !

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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted November 26, 2006 09:12 PM

Quote:
motw = mark of the wizard


Okay thank you , now you just need to tell what the good thing is about that spell... Effects gets dobbled? So i put that on something and i fire the best Dmg spell i got and they take twice the dmg?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 26, 2006 09:32 PM

it casts two spells on marked target instead of one. you may choose a different target then the marked one and the spell will be casted on the target AND on the marked one.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 26, 2006 10:40 PM

@Alcibiades
Yes you get phantom forces with magic insight but I'd rather use it on titans and rakshasas too.Ah,I wish more marks could be placed-once I would create 3 clones of them in one casting

@Towerlord
Then consider motw and resurrection Thing is if you try to use it for double effect on one creature it gets -20%hp right away.Five castings with motw and your titans go 1hp or so But resurrecting say both mages and say gremlins/genies is fun!
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted November 26, 2006 10:57 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 22:59, 26 Nov 2006.

Quote:
@Towerlord
Then consider motw and resurrection Thing is if you try to use it for double effect on one creature it gets -20%hp right away.Five castings with motw and your titans go 1hp or so But resurrecting say both mages and say gremlins/genies is fun!


There's an error in your math here. You have to calculate the new HP over before adding another 10 % decrease - thus, 10 Castings will not reduce HP by 100 % but by 65 % (1 - 0.9^10). Thus, your Titans will end up with 66 HP after 10 Castings - which is not good, but it's significantly different from 1 HP.

Quote:
Yes you get phantom forces with magic insight but I'd rather use it on titans and rakshasas too.


True - however, PF on Mages can be rather devastating - even though the fixed the Mana bug now to make it less appealing. Must admit, though, that I never use PF, so I didn't consider that feature. Guess you'll have to aim for Arcane Omniscience then.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 27, 2006 12:06 AM

You got me there.And no I don't go for arcane omniscience,expert summoning magic can do the trick too A cool ultimate in my book however,both handy and interesting.I always loved magic in heroes and I miss the times I could learn from 4 schools and cast them at expert level.
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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted November 27, 2006 08:14 AM

Quote:
it casts two spells on marked target instead of one. you may choose a different target then the marked one and the spell will be casted on the target AND on the marked one.


Why didn't anyone tell me that?! That makes MOTW so wicked... Hmm, ill better go crazy with some mages now, Hurray!

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted November 27, 2006 09:28 AM

Quote:
You got me there.And no I don't go for arcane omniscience,expert summoning magic can do the trick too A cool ultimate in my book however,both handy and interesting.I always loved magic in heroes and I miss the times I could learn from 4 schools and cast them at expert level.

It's not easy to get, however, especially not with the in-game requirements. MODs, of course, can do the trick. Personally, I detest Summoning Magic, so for me, that's not an attractive choice.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 27, 2006 10:09 AM

Well, perhaps I was too hasty in saying "bye bye inferno".. i still love them ;p But I gotta test academy further, perhaps it will become my second town.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 27, 2006 02:35 PM
Edited by Elvin at 16:13, 27 Nov 2006.

@Doomforge
You actually call yourself an academy abuser?Inferno maybe but I've been playing academy since 1.0 and still can't say that

@Alcibiades
I tried using resurrection with motw and realised I was right the first time.With a simple resurrection you get -10%hp and with motw -20%.Nasty

Edit:
STUPID MISCALCULATION.
Only 10% with or without motw.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted November 27, 2006 03:44 PM

Might be -20 % with MOTW ... Seems like a slight bug, but nothing that important (should be only -19 %) - however, with 5 uses, it'll still add up to only (1 - 0.8^5) or 67 % reduction, or 62 HP after 5 uses.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 27, 2006 04:08 PM

Ok here are some figures:
First I cast motw.
1st res titan hp 171
2nd hp 152
3rd hp 133
4th hp 114
5th hp 95

Maybe not so bad but it's not such a good idea to abuse it anyway I am sorry I posted incorrect values-it is 10% with or without motw.
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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted November 27, 2006 04:54 PM

Quote:
You got me there.And no I don't go for arcane omniscience,expert summoning magic can do the trick too A cool ultimate in my book however,both handy and interesting.I always loved magic in heroes and I miss the times I could learn from 4 schools and cast them at expert level.


But you can.  Pick all four magic skills get them up to expert and stop by a dragon utopia...with Jhora perhaps.  Try it in single player for fun.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 27, 2006 05:02 PM

I'm all for fun but it's not as effective nor easy to get.With the addition of abilities you can't do that easily and certainly not before lvl 15 as was possible in earlier installments.
Maybe this new strategy will change that,we'll see.
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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted December 11, 2006 03:50 PM

in one of my single-ing games with academy i found land mines to be a very good for creeping early ... at expert you get 8 of them, and if you restrict the area of placement (corner + your troops+ other land mines + obstacles),  you can place them just the way you want them... walkers(even lvl 4-5),especially if slow, are totaly crushed by land mines !

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