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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Creature Powers
Thread: Creature Powers
Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 28, 2006 10:19 PM

Creature Powers

Allright here is a "little" think i made up and compared the creatures in Heroes of Might and Magic V. What town has most powerfull creaturess or worse etc.


I only compare upgradet creatures in the game cause they are the ones what we really use in a long terms. Name, toughs, points, max population and the creatures power x the population what tells us how strong is the creature in the game in my mind.


Here is the first level troops from every town in the game plus the expansion town:


Assassin: The population is very low but that is understandable cause this is far the greatest lv1 creatures in the game! 5p x14 =70

Sprite: No enemy retaliation and 3x hex attack. What else could you want for lv1 creature? Very good creature. 3p x24 =72

Familiar: Allright lv1 creature. Not perfect fighter but Mana Stealing ability is great againts spell casting heroes. 2p x32 =64

Shieldguards: Attack and damage could not be any worse but health, defense and specials are really nice. Good lv1 creature. 2p x36 =72

Master Gremlin: This creature reminds lot of Skeleton Archers in statics way. Cheap and good low level creature. 2p x40 =80

Skeleton: Archer Very weak creature but you often have 10 times more of then than enemy has lv1 creatures. 2p x46 =92

Conscript: Go whit the Peasants! No tax payer! Double health but still too weak for your army. Best to train peasant to Archers 1p x49 =49



And here are slightly improved level 2 creatures:


Blood Fury: Like Assasin the population is lowest by far and strenght is incredible good for lv2 creature. Nice tactical creature! 5p x10 =50

War Dancer: Statics are pretty good and attack all adjancet hexes is really awesome bonus. Rather good lv2 creature. 3p x18 =54

Marksman: Max damage is umbelivable good and you can train your peasant to these in no time! Great lv2 creature, 3p x24 =72

Skirmisher: Good Fortress range creature what slows enemy creatures speed and initiative. 2p x28 =56

Obsidian Gargoyle: These creatures can take some hits/spells but they don't do any good damage either. Looks also horrible! 2p x28 =56

Horned Overseer: Horrible creature. Explosion ability sometimes help but it's still the worse Infernal creature in the game. 1p x32 =32

Plague Zombies: When you tough there could not be any worse creature in the world there comes the Zombies! For health. 1p x30 =30



Level 3 creatures has little better creatures but still weak creatures most of them anyway:


Blackbear Rider: These creatures knows how to fight. Strong defense and health! Really strong lv3 creature. 5p x14 =70

Master Hunter: They die easily but the number they take out of enemy army is huge. Double shot whit biggest lv3 damage! 5p x14 =70

Cerberus: Not great statics but fast initiative, 3x hex attack and no enemy retalation makes them one of the best lv3 creatures. 4p x16 =64

Minotaur Guard: Double strike, damage and health is good for lv creature. Still the most useless creature in Dungeon army. 4p x12 =48

Steel Golem: Slow like allways but unlimited retalations and 75% magic proof really makes them last long in the battlefield! 3p x18 =54

Squire: Not perfect fighter but ability to shield your range creatures is awesome. Also creature can stand hit rather good. 3p x20 =60

Spectre: Necropolis continues whit weak creatures. For enemy point of view Incorporeal ability is irritating. Bad creature still. 2p x18 =36




Level 4 creatures are my favorites in the game. There aren't single bad/useless creature in this tier! I wish every level would be this interesting:


Druid Elder: I personally fear these creatures! There is no safe way to fight againts these creatures. Nice spells and statics! 5p x8 =40

Grim Raider: Allmoust as good as the creature above! Really nasty creature and good to have in your army! 5p x8 =40

Succubus Mistress: Only range creature in Inferno but what a creature it is! Chain Shot is just totally awesome! Very nice. 4p x10 =40

Archmage: Not close as fearfull as the Druid Elders but still really annoying creature to fight againts. Good specials! 4p x10 =40

Vampire Lord: Like most people i would like these creature to be in higher rank. Life Drain could be more affective that way. 3p x10 =30

Imperial Griffin: I call them Imperial Storm Troopers. Battle Dive is just so damn good. Allways attacks those range creatures! 3p x10 =30

Berserker: Funny creatures. Kinda weak for lv4 but berserker rage ability is kinda cool. Just hope it does not attack your army! 2p x16 =32




Level 5 creatures are also quite resonable and very nice to play whit:


Archlich: The one and only! Incredible powerfull creature whit death cloud attack ability! Low health but still great creature! 5p x6 =30

Deep Hydra: Has over tre times more healt than Djinn Sultans. Initiative is really bad but teleportation attack is great tactics! 5p x6 =30

Silver Unicorn: Not mutch better than Nightmare and way more expensive. Aura of magic resistance does help tough. 4p x6 =24

Nightmare: Fast, fearfull and cheap! Good creature for Inferno line up. External Dwelling is good for the population. 4p x7 =28

Rune Patriarch: Damage and crossfire are incredible but it lacks on attack and defense what are really low. Allright lv5 creature. 4p x7 =28

Inquisitor: I don't like these range creatures cause the damage is so damn low. Health is pretty good for range creature tough. 4p x6 =24

Djinn Sultan: Damage is huge and it has random spells but it has way too low health for fighter. Best to attack weak creatures. 3p x8 =24




Level 6 creatures are little disappointment cause there are these tank role creatures what i don't care so mutch about but all are so high level creatures that you can't fought whitout them:


Paladin: Statics of this creature are quite good as itself but adding 40% of more damage from Jousting bonus is incredible! 5p x4 =20

Rakshasa Raja: Very strong creature whit no enemy retalation ability. Only down side is the low initiative. Ability Dash is good. 5p x4 =20

Ancient Treant: Not powerfull fighter itself but really hard to take out. Defense, health and root abilities makes them strong! 4p x5 =20

Wraith: Initiative and other statics are quite good but creature really lacks on good specials! Reanimate would been good. 4p x4 =16

Pit Lord: Seems like a good creature in the beginnig of the battle when casting Meteor Strike but after that it's kinda weak. 4p x4 =16

Warlord: Does somebody hear lightning? The attack and damage is not that great but storm strike hits multiple creatures. 4p x4 =16

Shadow Matriarch: Bad lv6 range creature. Some spells but the creature is just too weak. Range ability is allways a bonus. 3p x4 =12




Finally the Level 7 creatures! Every creature has something to like about:


Black Dragon: Finally no questions what is the most powerfull creature alive. Superior over other lv7 creatures in the game! 5p x2 =10

Archangel: Haven would not be so good if there would not be Angels. Still really good creature whit recurrection ability. 5p x2 =10

Titan: Apple has fallen far from the tree. Health is really low this time but other statics are reasonable good. Still good creature. 4p x2 =8

Magma Dragon: Initiative and speed are low but defense and health are best of the lv7 creatures. Magma Shield is also nice. 4p x2 =8

Emerald Dragon: Good initiative helps to get plenty of turns but even Ancient Treant has more defense and damage is also low 3p x2 =6

Arch Devil: Too bad this creature is aren't better. No enemy retalation would been good. Summon Pit Lords is still allright i guess. 3p x2 =6

Spectral Dragon: Again the necropolis has the weakest creature! It's funny that Wraith has allmoust same damage. Good Population! 2p x3 =6




Okay now you must wonder what town has the most powerfull creatures?


Numbers are first level creature to seven leven creature and the number shows how high is the creature ranked combared to others same level troops in other towns.

Sylvan: 3, 4, 2, 1, 3, 2, 5 = 25 -Sylvan seems to have most strongest creatures in the game.

Dungeon: 5, 5, 6, 2, 7, 1 = 26 -Dungeon creatures are second strongest.

Academy: 2, 3, 5, 4, 7, 2, 3 = 26 -Academy creatures have equal power as Dungeon.

Haven: 7, 1, 4, 6, 6, 1, 2 = 27 -Haven is not far behind the lead either.

Fortress: 4, 2, 1, 7, 5, 6, 4 = 29 -Fortress creatures are little above average.

Inferno: 6, 6, 3, 3, 3, 5, 6 = 32 -Inferno creatures are weaker than others.

Necropolis: 1, 7, 7, 6, 1, 4, 7 = 33 -Necropolis creatures are the weakest of them all.




I have gave this a little tough but there can be some things that others thinks diffrent but this is what i think creature powers are in the game at the moment.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 28, 2006 10:33 PM

I'm sorry to say that, but such charts are stupid, and they do nothing except confusing less experienced players. The power of each faction is not determined by numbers of att, def, hp or initiative, but it's much more complex and it can't be just described that way. The familiar is - for example - the best level 1 when it comes to usefulness while assassins are completely worthless except for being meatshields and creep helpers. Another example, black dragons are quite worthless because they need too much resources so you have them once per 10 games or so, while devils can be acquired almost every game, making them much more useful and therafore powerful. No, there's really no need for another "classification" like that, it never led to any good.

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 28, 2006 10:40 PM

I know what you mean Doomforge but this wasen't game balance post at all. Just like you can't really think Necropolis is weak just because the creatures are weaker than others.


And for than Assasin thing. It has five points as it should but when comparing it to other creatures it's in place 5 of level 1 creatures.


Familiar is quite effective in large numbers but so are the Skeleton Archers. It could not be seen on that chart unless we where talking in several populations where the power of Familiar could seen perfectly.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 28, 2006 10:42 PM
Edited by Elvin at 22:43, 28 Nov 2006.

A bit degrading but unfortunately it's true.Try to reply in a more positive way Doomforge Your tone doesn't help much.
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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 28, 2006 11:05 PM

It's allright. It's nice to hear comments good or bad as long as it has some point.


Maybe i should point out that these creature things has nothing to do whit real balance of the game. Creatures alone does not make it.


Heroes improves many factions in diffrent way. Like the Demon Lords Gating ability etc.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 28, 2006 11:20 PM

Of course it is alright-you won't hear me complain about things often and neither was it targetted at me.It was just a frienly suggestion.
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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted November 29, 2006 08:26 AM

I must say this: Arent those "points" based on what You think about the creatures? because you cannot just say that zombies sucks (they do ) because in low lvls they are rather hard, if you dont have strong army. So you should may say like this: these charts are made by, i have a lvl 15 hero, he got these things on him, thats make these creatures this good... or something more easy to compare to..

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hellwitch
hellwitch


Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
posted November 29, 2006 10:05 AM
Edited by hellwitch at 11:11, 29 Nov 2006.

Zombies are all right. They can just save your ass at the start of the game.ofcourse after gathering the first 300 skells they are not so needed but i think they do thier job well - to keep the enemy creeps away from the skell archers.

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RaZmuShaDoW
RaZmuShaDoW


Known Hero
The Sync Bug Hunter
posted November 29, 2006 12:03 PM

Quote:
assassins are completely worthless except for being meatshields and creep helpers


Doomforge, I see you replay to most of the posts imidiately but the summary of every answer is the same This sentence says it all. All creatures are good in different situations.

Nice overview. May be helpful for new players.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 29, 2006 12:43 PM

Elvin, Razmushadow: Yeah, perhaps I whine too much Well, as long as Homer171 doesn't feel offended it's ok I guess

Anyways..

If I wanted to do such a chart, I'd point out some things:

+Level 7 ones are generally weaker than stats show - because they come in little numbers (you already have 3-4 populations of other creatures) where the battling with opponent starts. Besides, there are skills that can kill them extremely easily without any effort - mark of the damned powered up by excruciating strike is the best imo. Placing the mark uses only half of your initiative, and it does huge damage to level 7 units. If you like dark magic, you may augment it with weakening strike, which will work as free, cumulative suffering spell. That's why the power of level 7s is strictly related to their costs and costs of their dwellings - the cheaper, the more useful!! That's why devils and (suprisingly) titans take the first places - 10 gems and 10 mercury isn't really much. Titans are the best here, because the upgrade is cheap aswell! Arch devils are tricky to get, though, but they have the best special and they score great damage - better than archangels, anyway.

+ The usefulness of level 1s is not determined by their stats, but their usefulness in creeping.. assassins may be not that bad as I pointed, even more - I find them great.. but only with Vayshan. He starts with a LOT (like 4 populations!) of them and gives them bonuses, making them perfect in creeping.

My whining about assassins comes sad experiences It was like week 7 and I had every dungeon creature in my army - and all of them scored decent damage, only full population of VAYSHAN assassins scored 1/10 of the regular damage of other creatures.. that's when I understood that they are not an option at lategame, limiting their usefulness to earlygame. Creep the mines with them, sacrifice them to a important mine if you must, and don't recruit them - they are not worth it

Homer171, if you feel annoyed by my whining than sorry

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 29, 2006 07:02 PM

Quote:
Homer171, if you feel annoyed by my whining than sorry


Not at all Doomforge. You made some point and that is good to hear.



Quote:
Arent those "points" based on what You think about the creatures?


Yes they are based on what i think of the creatures and how i like them.


I had in mind on 1 maximum population of creatures when i compared them. In long terms the specials and the creature powers comes to alive better ofcurse!


Also the cost of the buildings\creatures\heroes and their skills and special i didin't include in this comparing. Only the maximum population of one town creatures at the time. This does not show the real balance of the game in anymeas but shows what are my basic toughs about the creatures in their towns.


Useless creatures i disslike most alltough creatures like Zombies can stand fighting longer than many other lv2 creature it's still remainds useless creature in my army. Like RaZmuShaDoW said: "All creatures are good in different situations." is very true.


It's funny how you can think diffrent about other creatures. Like other "useless" creature Peasant i like very mutch in the game. No particular reason for that but it's nice to buy them immediatly and expand you daily income 1/per creature. Ofcurse it's good to train them the Archers but that i allways do later cause of the Taxpayer ability i really love.

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Kronos1000
Kronos1000


Promising
Supreme Hero
Fryslân Boppe
posted November 29, 2006 09:07 PM

If you think Skeleton Archers are worthless then you haven't played the Vapire Lord

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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted November 29, 2006 11:08 PM




Yes they are based on what i think of the creatures and how i like them.


I had in mind on 1 maximum population of creatures when i compared them. In long terms the specials and the creature powers comes to alive better ofcurse!


Also the cost of the buildings\creatures\heroes and their skills and special i didin't include in this comparing. Only the maximum population of one town creatures at the time. This does not show the real balance of the game in anymeas but shows what are my basic toughs about the creatures in their towns.


Useless creatures i disslike most alltough creatures like Zombies can stand fighting longer than many other lv2 creature it's still remainds useless creature in my army. Like RaZmuShaDoW said: "All creatures are good in different situations." is very true.


It's funny how you can think diffrent about other creatures. Like other "useless" creature Peasant i like very mutch in the game. No particular reason for that but it's nice to buy them immediatly and expand you daily income 1/per creature. Ofcurse it's good to train them the Archers but that i allways do later cause of the Taxpayer ability i really love.


Okay good to know, that was i missed ! telling us what you did, and now i know so im happy ... Thank you, still dont think you can compare creatures this way...

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 30, 2006 09:15 AM

To Kronos1000: I'm big fan of Necropolis fanction and Skeleton Archers are really cool creatures what powers are based on the huge numbers they allways have.

That was only opinion about all towns population emilsn and if it confuses some unexperieced player i can't help it. Everyone should think their self what to think for their creatures. This is not a guide line it's just personal feeling based upon basic population of the towns and really does not compare the towns actual powers.

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hellwitch
hellwitch


Known Hero
Skeleton Ruler
posted November 30, 2006 10:03 AM

Quote:
Homer171

Useless creatures i disslike most alltough creatures like Zombies can stand fighting longer than many other lv2 creature it's still remainds useless creature in my army.
Quote:


i absolutely disagree. I didn't do the math but from my experience Zombies have the best hp/gold value.They are decent meatshield and come in numbers.On big maps i equip Kaspar with Zombies and skells and many time i even don't return to the end of the game. In the whole game THE ZOMBIES take all the enemy damage and even then they survive. Their priority is to block the enemy and they do it. In my opinion HOMM5 Zombies are quite better than in HOMM3.

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 30, 2006 11:00 PM

Well we all can have diffrent opinions Hellwitch. It's true that Zombies has good health and they are usable in long fights againts other heroes.

They are again these powerhouses what does not actully do nothing in the battlefield just waiting for the opportunity to strike when all others creatures have allready killed each others.

Many times when playing whit Necropolis when buying the population and you don't have enough money for whole population i allways skip the Zombies and sometimes Ghost or maybe both. All other creatures has some really good value in every battle they go.

There are TANK creatures like Wraiths in Necropolis and i defend range creatures whit them more happily. Ghost can be used in early on but in end games Zombies proves to be mutch stronger creatures.

My Zombie populations just grows in the town and when it's time to make "full scale attack" i just bought the Zombies and every other creatures aswell and go for the glory.

Zombies are bad in my mind because of their low speed and initiative what really makes them useless in early and mid games. How many end game fight you usually fight? 1-7? Wow thats great!

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 30, 2006 11:34 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 23:35, 30 Nov 2006.

who cares about speed and initiative when there are things like teleport assault?

And even without it.. Look at pit lords. Slow? yes. Low initative? yes. Useful? YES! They are very good units. beacause they have offensive power, spells and specials that make up for those two missing stats.

The problem with zombies lies elsewhere - they don't have neither attack power, nor usable specials, and they are still too weak to tank properly (like, say, treants). In other words, except earlygame skellie archer surrounding, they are worthless.

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emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted December 01, 2006 08:25 AM

Just a quick reminder, those Pitlords can only afford to cast ONE spell... They have no mana Which i can't handle, i like them because of thier spells but if they can only fire one?! and they cannot run (Or fly for that matter, use those wings!) Then i intent to relay on other Inferno creatures...

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted December 01, 2006 09:53 AM

Not in this patch, they can now cast meteor shower followed by a fireball.

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted December 01, 2006 06:05 PM

Quote:
Not in this patch, they can now cast meteor shower followed by a fireball.


Yes that is true and i was happy to see that in the game! Also for the teleport attack i would like to add how great is to use it on Hydras! One of my favorite combos in the game! Oh there are some Druids, Hunters and their guardians let's put Hydras in the middle and attack. Then just waiting for retaliate if some creature dare to attack those nasty hydras!

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