|
| Thread: The Second ICTC Contest |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
posted January 06, 2007 10:44 PM |
|
|
Of course we could not allow copying, but there is for me at least a wide berth between originality and copying, which most of the best factions fit into. But never mind.
I'd be absolutely delighted to be head judge - so long as my part comes next month, and no one else objects of course! Who will be joining me?
Halving the average of other users' votes sounds like a good idea.
____________
|
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 06, 2007 11:17 PM |
|
|
IM-ing Val would probably be the best way to get through to him.
I will say though, as Daystar and Fofa may remember, some members scorned ICTC last time it occured - so it may not be hugely popular for some (in fact, quite the opposite)...
Whether we want to contact Val, post something somewhere etc. depends really on how big a thing we want this to be.
Edit: my apologies, did not realise you'd already posted over on TT. Although TNT's "For the love of Namus, NO" demonstrates succinctly what I was trying to say.
____________
|
|
Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
|
|
posted January 07, 2007 01:46 AM |
|
|
forget them.
"Quiet! I said I was going to make a perfect thanksgiving dinner, and that's what I'll do, and It WILL be perfect. Even if we are attacked by the spirit of a Shumash God"
-Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Pangs
that's my attitude. If people think it's dumb, let them. it's not like it's hurting them is it?
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted January 07, 2007 01:39 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I'd be absolutely delighted to be head judge - so long as my part comes next month, and no one else objects of course! Who will be joining me?
Awsome. 
And I'm doing another special thing (I'll keep it as surprise) so meanwhile, and there are some things I need to explain to you. For all these, take my:
E-mail: ReFlash3@gmail.com / Gadi@Shenhar.co.il
Messenger: gadi_sh99@hotmail.com
ICQ: 349992331
|
|
Fofa
Famous Hero
Famous? Me?!
|
|
posted January 07, 2007 10:50 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I will say though, as Daystar and Fofa may remember, some members scorned ICTC last time it occured - so it may not be hugely popular for some (in fact, quite the opposite)...
I didn't enter the first ICTC contest at all. . . .
|
|
Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
|
|
posted January 08, 2007 04:06 AM |
|
|
|
I also entered not the contest, for i then was not very involved with HC.
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted January 08, 2007 08:04 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I will say though, as Daystar and Fofa may remember, some members scorned ICTC last time it occured - so it may not be hugely popular for some (in fact, quite the opposite)...
First of all, Fofa and Daystar didn't compete in the first ICTC.
Second, if someone wants to compete again and he didn't do a major change in his race, so he will probebly get similiar ratings to the first contest's ratings.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted January 08, 2007 02:39 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Use ICTC2: ________ just in case
Get Val to publicise a little?
Change the scoring system maybe:
Race is important
History is slightly less so
Creatures is the most important IMO
Balance is not so important, especially for those who don't like-number crunching
Originality; I got a little annoyed last time when unique factions scored high here even though they weren't really very fitting for the HoMM Universe in my opinion, so I'd rank this fairly low.
Perhaps have multipliers for the scores
0.25*Race
0.2*History
0.3*Creatures
0.1*Balance
0.15*Originality
Excellent - I agree 100 % that different parts should weigh differently. History is for me completely unimportant, and should only have a minor weight. How well the faction fits into the current game is on the other hand of major importance (I suppose that would be incorporated in the "Race" part). Another point of major importance is the coherence of the faction (that would be in the "Creatures" part). And Originality is certainly a two-edged sword. Therefore, I highly support the weighted average scheem. And no, it will not be difficult to do the math, since every judge has to pass a score in each category.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted January 08, 2007 03:54 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Use ICTC2: ________ just in case
Get Val to publicise a little?
Change the scoring system maybe:
Race is important
History is slightly less so
Creatures is the most important IMO
Balance is not so important, especially for those who don't like-number crunching
Originality; I got a little annoyed last time when unique factions scored high here even though they weren't really very fitting for the HoMM Universe in my opinion, so I'd rank this fairly low.
Perhaps have multipliers for the scores
0.25*Race
0.2*History
0.3*Creatures
0.1*Balance
0.15*Originality
Excellent - I agree 100 % that different parts should weigh differently. History is for me completely unimportant, and should only have a minor weight. How well the faction fits into the current game is on the other hand of major importance (I suppose that would be incorporated in the "Race" part). Another point of major importance is the coherence of the faction (that would be in the "Creatures" part). And Originality is certainly a two-edged sword. Therefore, I highly support the weighted average scheem. And no, it will not be difficult to do the math, since every judge has to pass a score in each category.
Okay, I'll consider that.
And I thought category of the actual town (Describe, building, etc.).
Because if we'll change the value of each category, we have to check first that we don't want to add any new ones.
____________
|
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 08, 2007 04:11 PM |
|
|
Thanks for the support Alc, and as for Fofa and DS I guessed by their join dates that they were around during ICTC1 (not necessarily that they took part in it).
This means we need to decide exactly what categories, and what weightings. Are you judging too, Alc? Having a town section is a good idea I think. We could look through past ICTC entries, see what sections were done, and then lump them together into 5 / 6 or so categories (such as the ones used last time), with relevant ratings (so core philosophy and motto in the race section, hero skills put with creatures and so forth*).
* Problem - some bits could fit in mutliple ways, esp. for balance and Alc's "how well it fits in" category (a very good idea if I may say so!).
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted January 08, 2007 04:30 PM |
|
|
You didn't unswer my question: should we have a category about the town?
____________
|
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 08, 2007 09:45 PM |
|
|
|
Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
|
|
posted January 08, 2007 10:27 PM |
|
|
So do I.
My thoughts:
Race:
Includes whether or not the race fits into HV, whether or not the race makes sense, whether or not the race is actually possible, and just a general liking of the race.
History:
Can be an indepth story line, a general discription, or just a
??YSD: this happened
???YSD: This happened.
Creatures:
Includes the creature's relation to the race, (are they just thrown in, or do they make sense?) the stats of the creature, special abilities, and a good discription of the creatures. Also, something about the creatures not being copied.
Balance:
Is it balanced?
Originality:
Is it original enough that it is not a copy in some way of something that was already done, but not so out of the box that you have a race of scisors that give tea parties.
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted January 09, 2007 06:00 PM |
|
|
Basicly, I agree with you Daystar.
But I don't see where judgment about the town comes together with all that...
Quote:
Creatures:
Includes the creature's relation to the race, (are they just thrown in, or do they make sense?) the stats of the creature, special abilities, and a good discription of the creatures. Also, something about the creatures not being copied.
I see a little problem with checking the creatures aren't copied.
There are many creatures that the creators took from other versions of HOMM, that they might be missing in HOMM. They can't invent all the creatures...
But if they took it from other place (not H1,2,3,4), it's considered as copying.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted January 09, 2007 07:01 PM |
|
|
I think one should take care not to make too many narrow categories. The current categories are not too bad, because they cover many different aspects each. We want creativity, and the contesters should have room to decide for themselves what they want to include, and what they don't care for. Of course, a broader approach might give a better score, but sometimes, quantity isn't equivalent to quality (we have seen examples of that in several factions).
I think a good way to make the groupings would be, with some examples of what judges could look for:
Race
- How well conceived is the main race.
- Is it believable as a nation/civilization/society/faction.
- How well does it relate to the other races of the game.
- How original is the theme.
- Possible bonus for racial skill.
To give some examples would an Orc race score high on the first three points, even though it's not particularly original. On the other hand would a Halfling Barbarian race fall short on credibility, whereas an alien race would seem out of place in the game for me.
History
- How well conceived is the historical development - does it make sense, and is it believable.
- How well developed is the history of the race.
- How well does it fit into the history of the other races in the current game.
- Geographical issues - does the location of the faction make sense in terms of other races, geography and terrain, and included creatures.
- Will the history make for a good storyline for campaigns.
Creatures
- How well does the beasts/supporting creatures fit in with the primary race.
- Does the creatures add something new to the game, or are they established from previous games of Heroes.
- Are there any new abilities to include gameplay.
- Does the creatures posses a wide variety of abilities.
- Will the faction be overall adaptable.
Ballance
This ties up to both the Racial (Class Skill) and Creature category, and I'm not sure this should be a category for itself, but maybe it's a good thing to make people look at this. One might look at:
- How ballanced are the creature types (flyers, shooters, casters, etc).
- How ballanced are creature stats.
- How ballanced are creature abilities.
- How ballanced is the Class Skill, if any.
Originality
Again, I'm not sure this should be a point for itself - Originality should be evaluated for all things - Race, Creatures, Skills, Abilities, History, etc.
Miscelaneous
I think a Miscelaneous selection has to be included to give room for all the extras that cannot be foreseen or goes beyond these categories.
I would probably weigh the different categories as, but that might be changed:
- Race: 30 %
- Creatures: 30 %
- History: 20 %
- Ballance: 10 %
- Miscelaneous: 10 %
And Gnoll_Mage - I would love to judge, but I have contributed to one of the towns that might be going to be in the contest, so I guess that would disqualify me. But it's not quite decided as yet, I think.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
posted January 09, 2007 08:10 PM |
|
|
Alc, this is great, basicly, but I have some comments.
Quote:
Race
- How well conceived is the main race.
- Is it believable as a nation/civilization/society/faction.
- How well does it relate to the other races of the game.
- How original is the theme.
- Possible bonus for racial skill.
1. Originailty comes with "Originality" category.
2. There's no bonus for recial skill. I has to be done.
It takes some points from the final score, if there's not.
Quote:
History
- How well conceived is the historical development - does it make sense, and is it believable.
- How well developed is the history of the race.
- How well does it fit into the history of the other races in the current game.
- Geographical issues - does the location of the faction make sense in terms of other races, geography and terrain, and included creatures.
- Will the history make for a good storyline for campaigns.
Perfect!
Quote:
Creatures
- How well does the beasts/supporting creatures fit in with the primary race.
- Does the creatures add something new to the game, or are they established from previous games of Heroes.
- Are there any new abilities to include gameplay.
- Does the creatures posses a wide variety of abilities.
- Will the faction be overall adaptable.
I liked it, just one comment:
The last thing is very unexpectable. It's not something that may be seriously judged.
It to foretell, and each judge does it differently.
Quote:
- How ballanced are the creature types (flyers, shooters, casters, etc).
- How ballanced are creature stats.
- How ballanced are creature abilities.
- How ballanced is the Class Skill, if any.
Again, has to be a class skill. According to what you said, doing it is like taking pointless risk.
Quote:
Originality Again, I'm not sure this should be a point for itself - Originality should be evaluated for all things - Race, Creatures, Skills, Abilities, History, etc.
That catagory will stay, probebly.
Instead of putting it in every category, we'll do it in one place.
Becuase if someone has originality problem, he desurves to know it, and how much scores does it takes from him, from 1-10.
Miscellaneous, is a part of "Originality" category.
And if it stays, it's a pretty pointless category.
But actually, this post is excellent.
If you don't mind, with some little fixes, we'll use it to guild the judges.
____________
|
|
KnightDougal
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 09, 2007 08:13 PM |
|
|
GL can you givem e an idea how to ballance my overpowered settlement???
____________
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted January 09, 2007 08:22 PM |
|
|
Quote:
GL can you givem e an idea how to ballance my overpowered settlement???
Ofcouse.
The point of balance, is being powerly similiar to the others.
You can see the power of the different factions here:
Haven
Inferno
Necropolis
Dungeon
Sylvan
Academy
Compare it to the other races.
Where it's too strong, make it weaker, etc.
____________
|
|
KnightDougal
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
|
|
posted January 09, 2007 08:26 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
GL can you givem e an idea how to ballance my overpowered settlement???
Ofcouse.
The point of balance, is being powerly similiar to the others.
You can see the power of the different factions here:
Haven
Inferno
Necropolis
Dungeon
Sylvan
Academy
Compare it to the other races.
Where it's too strong, make it weaker, etc.
thanks, I see there is no overpowered things
____________
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted January 09, 2007 09:03 PM |
|
|
Genie_Lord > What I wrote was not ment as a fixed step-by-step list of how to evaluate the contributions, but just to summarize some of the points I find important. Others may have other points, and that's for the individual judge to decide as well, at least to some extent - after all, it's a subjective evaluation. And whether you want to separate Originality out as a category or not doesn't really matter that much to me. However, it doesn't make much sense for me to group "Micelaneous" in "Originality" - because Miscelaneous should cover a wide range of things that might be relevant and aren't covered by the other groups.
And KD - please post about your Settlement town in the Settlement thread - and in the Settlement thread only. In fact, there are several of them, so it should not be that difficult for you to keep it there. And we're sick and tired of seeing off topic comments about your Settlement in every single thread on the board.
____________
What will happen now?
|
| |
|
|
