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| Thread: The Perfect Encampment |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 19, 2007 04:15 PM |
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The Perfect Encampment
THIS IS NOT A MASTERPOST, THIS IS JUST THE PROPOSAL !
And thus a new The-Perfect-project starts.
I wanted to focus this project on a town centered around Gnolls, the Hyenalike humanoids present in many a fantasy-universe. The basic idea is still very rough and is still up for debate, I have thought of some creatures, but no real lore behind them or any skills. The help of the previous Perfect-project members and all others interested in this would be apreciated and all CONSTRUCTIVE critism will be reviewed. However, simple flaming post like:" GnOlLs Suck  and dont deserf a T0wn ! " will be ignored.
The Basic idea:
The gnolls are a plainsdwelling people, who reside in semi-permanent Encampents. They are very fond of hunting and this makes up a large part of their culture. Next to hunting the gnolls do a lot of scavenging. The Gnolls do not worship the Elemental Dragon-gods, they worship the moons of Ashan and thus they worship Asha indirectly. The worship is primarely done in Voodoo-like rituals
Creatures:
1
Gnoll Poacher
Basic Gnoll infantry armed with hatchet
Upgrade
Gnoll Trapper
Gnoll infantry carrying a cutlass
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Gnoll Huntsman
Gnoll with a large crossbow
Upgrade
Gnoll Sniper
Gnoll with an even larger Crossbow on a standard
3
Tracker Bat
Big dayturnal bat, used by Gnolls as hunting dogs
Uprgade
Hunting Bat
Basicly same bat, with different colouring and more skills
4
Gnoll Moonpriest
Gnoll shooter
Uprgade
Gnoll Witchdoctor
Gnoll shooter and is able to cast Puppetmaster ?
5
Giant Boar Rider
Armoured Gnoll riding on a giant Boar, possibly using weapon
Upgrade
Giant Boar Charger
Armoured Gnoll riding on an armoured Giant boar, has some charging ability which knocks aside anything in it's path and damaging the target
6
Moonworg
Giant Wolfcreature, seen by the Gnolls as being blessed by the Moons
Upgrade
Werewolf
Basicly the Alpha of the Moonworgs. Not somebody who turns into a wolf at fullmoon, that wouldn't be workable
7
Beholder
(creature also known in many a Fantasy-realm) This is a basic form, A floating creature which consist mainly of a huge brain and a single central eye, has a razortooth mouth. Very magical creature
Upgrade
Arcane Beholder
Same kind of creature, but with 3-4 eyestalks. Can be used as a Caster level 7.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 19, 2007 04:21 PM |
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Well, I've got only one thing to say:
GnOlLs Suck and dont deserf a T0wn !
Other than that, could work IF you can find some unique feature to build the hero's ability and creature stats around it.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted January 19, 2007 04:31 PM |
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Oh come on man, I thought we were supposed to finish the lab first... I mean, people will think that the PS-team is a clan of town-making robots with no life or anything... Plus I have to help with the Slavic town (honour bounds me  ), update the laboratory masterpost, practice modding...
*sigh*
Ok. Let's get this thing started with. But it's going to be tough...
Poachers and trappers are alright.
I'd drop the huntsmen since there are already hunters in Sylvans... There's also too much crossbows. How about Slinger - Brigand? Guys with slings...
Bats are fine, more or less...
Moonpriests haven't got much in common with witch doctors... How about Witch Doctor - Seer?
Units shouldn't have three words in their name, why not simply have giant boars and dire boars for units? We could of course put a rider on them, just not mention him in the name itself. I still don't know why a gnome on a boar should be stronger than a dwarf on a bear...
I'd take something like werewolf-blood werewolf for level 6, since moonworg sounds freaky...
Finally, I'm totally against beholders. Especially arcane ones. They don't fit at all. How about slavegiant - hill giant or cyclops - cyclops clanlord?
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relentless
Known Hero
Shadow Elemental
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posted January 19, 2007 04:34 PM |
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The Bat and the Beholder are a little out of place. Other than that it looks good. 
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 19, 2007 05:30 PM |
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Nothing is out of place if you think of a good reason for them to be part of faction, which im sure baklava will manage to do.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted January 19, 2007 05:40 PM |
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Well technically yes (thanks by the way for believing in me ) but I still don't like the beholders idea... Especially at such a high level.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 19, 2007 05:46 PM |
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if you must have a riding unit for Gnolls, at least make it powerful enough for it to be resonable that they can defeat a dwarf on a bear. boars would be turned into pork chops in a blink of an eye. try a feircer monster.
thats what didn't get me, why is a dwarf mounted on a bear far weaker than a human mounted on a horse?
anyway, a beholder, i suggest moving that down a level, or not having it at all. it doesn't fit. find something like a lion, as it is strong and imperial and everyone recognsis it as so.
what were you thinking of as heroes. maybe a scared gnoll warlord, or a gnoll plunderer (have something to do with taking gold in it somewhere, a racial skill like plundering would be cool!)
but apart from that, good show, old chap!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 19, 2007 05:59 PM |
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Quote:
I'd drop the huntsmen since there are already hunters in Sylvans... There's also too much crossbows. How about Slinger - Brigand? Guys with slings...
Bats are fine, more or less...
Moonpriests haven't got much in common with witch doctors... How about Witch Doctor - Seer?
Units shouldn't have three words in their name, why not simply have giant boars and dire boars for units? We could of course put a rider on them, just not mention him in the name itself. I still don't know why a gnome on a boar should be stronger than a dwarf on a bear...
I'd take something like werewolf-blood werewolf for level 6, since moonworg sounds freaky...
Finally, I'm totally against beholders. Especially arcane ones. They don't fit at all. How about slavegiant - hill giant or cyclops - cyclops clanlord?
I would agree with the change of the name of the Huntsman, but I don't see why there are too much crossbows. As far as I know there are only 2 units who use them.
I personaly don't think slings fit gnolls very well, they would fit Halflings much more.
I don't see why seers are more atuned to witchdoctors than moonpriests, but I could change it to Witchdoctor > Voodoomaster.
I would agree that moonworg sounds strange, but there should be a reason for the Blood adition to the Werewolf.
I agree that Beholders might be far-fetchet, but I don't see how Giants or Cyclopses would fit Gnolls more.
Quote:
if you must have a riding unit for Gnolls, at least make it powerful enough for it to be resonable that they can defeat a dwarf on a bear. boars would be turned into pork chops in a blink of an eye. try a feircer monster.
thats what didn't get me, why is a dwarf mounted on a bear far weaker than a human mounted on a horse?
anyway, a beholder, i suggest moving that down a level, or not having it at all. it doesn't fit. find something like a lion, as it is strong and imperial and everyone recognsis it as so.
what were you thinking of as heroes. maybe a scared gnoll warlord, or a gnoll plunderer (have something to do with taking gold in it somewhere, a racial skill like plundering would be cool!)
The idea I had with my Giant Boars was that they were like rhino-sized. Also (normal) boars are know to be able to kill tigers when they are mad and/or cornered, so one the size of a rhino would certainly be able to kill a Dwarf on a Bear.
I don't see how a Lion would be a better replacement for a Beholder, but I would agree that there are better choices for a level 7 creature. As long as it aren't dragons, the Gnolls are hardly tied to them.
I want to have a nice base before I want to start thinking of heroes and their skills, so I will wait with thinking of that, though you're ideas aren't bad at all.
Anyway, thank you all for you're compliments. Before I will change anything I want to wait for more reactions and hear some more ideas.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted January 19, 2007 06:18 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 18:21, 19 Jan 2007.
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Quote:
I don't see why there are too much crossbows. As far as I know there are only 2 units who use them.
I personaly don't think slings fit gnolls very well, they would fit Halflings much more.
Marksmen, crossbowmen, scouts, assassins. More than enough. Slings perhaps do fit halflings, but they fit for gnolls as much as crossbows, if not even more.
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I don't see why seers are more atuned to witchdoctors than moonpriests, but I could change it to Witchdoctor > Voodoomaster.
You're giving voodoo to the gnomes? 
How about seer - mystic?
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I would agree that moonworg sounds strange, but there should be a reason for the Blood adition to the Werewolf.
Leave the explaining part to me.
Quote:
I agree that Beholders might be far-fetchet, but I don't see how Giants or Cyclopses would fit Gnolls more.
Beholders are deep-cave creatures, and giants and cyclopses could be paid with stuff like food or gold, in one word - loot. Gnolls have plenty of that.
Quote:
The idea I had with my Giant Boars was that they were like rhino-sized.
And you can't have lions as level 7. First, they're too weak, second, cats and dogs hate each other. Gnomes are wolf/hyena people.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 19, 2007 06:22 PM |
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juse one thing, what about having each Gnoll has a individual guardian spirit who they worship (purely spiritual thing). Witchdoctors can communicate with them. 
sorry, just an idea. 
Btw, voodoo, gnomes doesn't work, i think.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted January 19, 2007 06:25 PM |
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Quote:
juse one thing, what about having each Gnoll has a individual guardian spirit who they worship (purely spiritual thing). Witchdoctors can communicate with them.
Or they could, as their wolf ancestors, worship the moons. By legend, Asha was (is?) in one of the moons. That might explain a lot, put in the right concept. Plus the howling... We could even think up some racial ability based on howling...
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 19, 2007 06:46 PM |
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Argh - just wrote a lot and then hit some strange combo on the keyboard that closed the Window.
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Anyway, what I wanted to say was this:
First off - I give the basic concept of the town a because it's something that can easily be fitted into the Heroes 5 town scheme. Also I like the Gnolls as race.
However, there are a number of things I would like to see modified for a better line-up. Let me give you examples here:
- I'm not positive about the connection of Gnoll to Plainsland. Maybe it's just because I know the Gnoll from the Heroes 3 stronghold, but for me Swamp would be more appropriate.
- Bats don't dwell on Plains, they dwell in caves!
- Boars don't dwell on Plains, they dwell in forests and woodlands!
- No - NO - creatures below level 7 with Puppet Master! Even level 7 creatures should only have Puppet Master conditionally. I once made a chance-of-succes formula that could work - I will explain it to you if you're interested. [Since you have a level 7 caster, however, you might consider giving the Beholder Puppet Master!]
- Faction is lacking in Flying creatures, because the Beholder as a Caster really will not use its potential as a flyer, and the Bat is a low-level creature.
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My suggestion to improving this could take one of two approaches. One would be keeping the Gnolls on the Plains and associating them with some other creatures. I don't favor this approach, because I would like to see a Centaur Plainsdwelling faction (there's an old thread somewhere ...). I will therefore make the following suggestions:
- Move this faction to Swamp - or Jungle(?) if we want to have a more insectlike faction in the Swamp (bad idea imo., but I know many favor this).
- Swap various creatures to make line-up something like this:
Level 1 - Gnoll Poacher / Trapper - no changes.
Level 2 - Gnoll Huntsman / Sniper - please no crosbows, too advanced. I favor normal bows or blowpipes.
Level 3 - Some tough beast. Tank unit.
Level 4 - Moon Priest - Whitch Doctor* - Caster (Weakness, Eldritch Arrow, Ice Bolt*), Ranged
Level 5 - Infantry unit - mounted on some suitable creature, probably related to the level 3 unit.
Level 6 - Manticore / Scorpicore - add Slow effect to poison on upgrade?
Level 7 - Evil Eye / Beholder* - Floating (pass obstacles but not walls), Caster (curses - Confusion, Blind and Puppet Master* - restricted)
This line-up would offer a fairly offensive low-level combination including two shooters in level 1-4 (one of which is also a caster). This is similar to the Sylvan and Academy factions, and would be compensated by a tank unit that will serve well in the deffense of these archers, but will have little offensive power, and a level 1 unit that should have abilities that are tactical rather than offensive. Movement across the field is going to be a sore spot for this faction, though the level 5 and 6 creature should compensate for that. The Manticore would also be the only flying creature of the faction, but should compensate for this with good all-round compatibility. The Beholder, finally, emphasizes the defensive properties of the faction, with a nasty combination of defensive spell that will pacify the enemy rather than kill him. The Beholder would have to NOT be a ranged unit in order to keep the overall line-up ballanced.
As for the level 3 and 5 creatures, I leave that to your imagination - at least right now, I haven't got any perfect suggestions. Depending on whether one want to have the swamp connection or not, one could suggest Basilish or some other Lizard to take part in that (Cameleon might make a cool level 3 with a blend-in ability to make it disappear).
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To comment on a few comments from the other users:
- The Beholder is a great idea for level 7 unit! Sure, it normally dwells in caves, but I think it would sit well with this faction - and it's a perfect opportunity for a level 7 caster!
- Voodoo sounds like a really sweet Class Skill for this faction. I just love that idea - it could be developed into something great!
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What will happen now?
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 19, 2007 06:53 PM |
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Edited by bixie at 18:54, 19 Jan 2007.
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i think that gnolls can fit in with the theme. and they could live on the plains of woe.
my reason is simple. the stampede fought off a gnoll invasion of the golden plains when they were first developing. reasons for the gnoll invasions was that they met the ogres when they were humans (see ICTC: the stampede for details) and were jealous of what they had, and invaded. it seems logical, as the plains of woe is a fairly inhospitable place, whilst the golden plains is a place of prosperity.
in which case, the gnolls would have to be alot more offensive.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted January 19, 2007 07:03 PM |
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well, i dont really want to say this but, i dont think this is a good faction, boar riders, first i have badger riders, second bears are in HoF, so that might not work, and the priest is a bit wierd at level 3, (should be higher) i havent seen the others much, but still, needs work
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted January 19, 2007 08:36 PM |
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As with the Temple in the beginning, this is going very fast, but I'll try to keep up.
First of, where did I state anything about Gnomes ? Gnomes have nothing to do with this town and they certainly will not get any voodoo abilities.
Quote:
Marksmen, crossbowmen, scouts, assassins. More than enough.
Oh, i forgot about Scouts and Asassins. Still I would realy like the second level as an archer. Perhaps, now the Dwarves turn out to have Spearthrowers, we could use Axethrowers for the Gnolls.
Quote:
- I'm not positive about the connection of Gnoll to Plainsland. Maybe it's just because I know the Gnoll from the Heroes 3 stronghold, but for me Swamp would be more appropriate.
- Bats don't dwell on Plains, they dwell in caves!
- Boars don't dwell on Plains, they dwell in forests and woodlands!
Actualy Gnolls make more sense on the plains than in the swamps. Hyenas are creatures of the savanas and Gnolls are afterall a Hyena-race. Also we have done a Swamptown in the Perfect Temple.
The part about bats dwelling in caves, is not entirely true. Only nocturnal bats roost there, dayturnal bats roost in trees. I ment the bats as dayturnal as I said before, besides they're not wild but domesticated animals.
And about boars not dwelling on plains is not true either, boars are everywhere where they can find food. The Warthog for example is a savanadwelling spiecies of boar and the Eurasian Wild Boar dwells actualy everywhere, from tundras to jungles.
Still, I like the idea of using Voodoo as a racial skill, but I do not want it to turn into a new form of magic, there are enough of those already.
Quote:
Level 6 - Manticore / Scorpicore - add Slow effect to poison on upgrade?
I do not want to use manticores as one of the creatures, they are already in as neutrals and that suits me fine.
Quote:
Beholders are deep-cave creatures, and giants and cyclopses could be paid with stuff like food or gold, in one word - loot. Gnolls have plenty of that.
Beholders are not nesecaraly Cavedwellers. In Age of Wonders they are desertcreatures who create mirrages, and in Warlords(Battlecry) the beholders are creations of the Lord of Plague and therefor swampdwellers.
Also I would like to decline Bixie's offer for now, I do not want to involve this town with any other one before it is finished.
Lastly, I would like to ask Ted what exactly he ment ? I don't see the connection with the boars in my town and Badgerriders.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 19, 2007 08:41 PM |
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ok. just make sure you include it when it is finished, please!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 19, 2007 08:50 PM |
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Quote:
Actualy Gnolls make more sense on the plains than in the swamps. Hyenas are creatures of the savanas and Gnolls are afterall a Hyena-race. Also we have done a Swamptown in the Perfect Temple.
Quote:
Level 6 - Manticore / Scorpicore - add Slow effect to poison on upgrade?
I do not want to use manticores as one of the creatures, they are already in as neutrals and that suits me fine.
True - very true. I can see the idea of having the Gnolls on the plains, but I would prefer to have the Centaurs dwelling there. As I said, that was entirely a matter of personal preference. And because I don't favor the idea of Nagas as Swamp-dwelling creatures (I would rather see them on those watery planes strangely appearing west of the Griffin Empire) the Gnolls would be perfectly suited for the Swamp for me. Like I said, personal preference - but it never hurts to think in a grander scope.
About the Manticores ... too bad. There goes the perfect opportunity to get rid of another of those awfull neutrals.
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What will happen now?
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 19, 2007 09:39 PM |
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there goes Alcibaides, a man deicaded to his crusade on neutrals!
maybe they can't make up their mind which faction to join!
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted January 19, 2007 10:01 PM |
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Quote:
Lastly, I would like to ask Ted what exactly he ment ? I don't see the connection with the boars in my town and Badger riders.
well, its just that 3 creatures that are "themed" on the generally same idea, is a bit odd, but its not that important
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 19, 2007 10:20 PM |
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Quote:
there goes Alcibaides, a man deicaded to his crusade on neutrals!
maybe they can't make up their mind which faction to join!
Yup ... I will need to make up new factions faster in order to include them all with the rate that Nival spawn them.
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