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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Advanced and Elite Skills - a discussion
Thread: Advanced and Elite Skills - a discussion
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted April 03, 2007 03:06 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 10:05, 04 Apr 2007.

Advanced and Elite Skills - a discussion

Spawned by the discussion about the current Ultimate Skill system in this topic, I started to think about how one could make a better system for "advanced" skills, "ellite" skills, or whatever one should call them. I descriped a system in the other post, but I continued working on it, and think maybe I came up with a better model. I will try to descripe it here, and then please come with your input for modifications, or alternative suggestions for how "ellite" skills could be introduced.




Basic thoughts
I listed much of this in the other thread also, but these are some of the thoughts I based my work on:
- The current skills are too hard to get, making them without real importance most of the time. I want more accessible skills.
- More accessible skills will require the skills to be less powerfull.
- I want all skills to be accessible to all classes. This reduces the problem with balancing, and also makes for more versatile game approach. Some skills obviously still will be more suited for certain classes.

Skill Groups
The current system works with a certain combination of skills triggering the "ultimate" ability. This is as such a sound approach. However, with 12 different skills, if one retain the 4-skill requirement, that leaves 495 possible combinations. This is obviously a problem, since there should only be something around a dozen abilities. It is therefore necessary to group the skills somehow.

After much working around, I found that the best approach would be grouping the 12 skills in 4 groups like this:



I chose this devision based on various considerations. For instance, Destructive and Summoning Magic goes well with Sorcery, because there is no Initiative bonus from the perks. On the other hand, Light and Dark magic users have little use of Sorcery, so these are grouped with Enlightenment. As for the Might skills, the defining is less clearcut: I chose to separate Luck and Morale, but one could also group them together with Defence and move Logistics to Attack. It does not make much of a difference for the continued approach, however, one has just to settle for some grouping.

"Specialized" Skills
This would be the one of two types of "Advanced" skills available. To qualify for a Specializes skill, the following requirements should be met:
- All three skills from a group should be known at expert level.
- All abilities should be developed to the end of the racial branch.
The racial branch in this case means that a Knight in Leadership needs to take Divine Guidance and Aura of Swiftness.

The specialized abilities could look something like this:



The above effect descriptions are just preliminary suggestions. Notice that all skills come in three levels, basic, advanced and expert, as normal skills - these are indeed skills and not abilities.

Abilities for these skills could be developed seperately, but I see no need for that. Rather, I would say that the Hero could pick an ability from each of the 3 skills required for the specializard skill.

"Ellite", or synergy, Skills
Ellite skill is the other possible type of "advanced" skill in this suggestion. To qualify for an ellite skill, a hero should meet these requirements:
- Have two skills from two different groups developed to Expert level.
- All abilities should be developed to the end of the racial branch.

Examples of these skills are given here; again the skill description is just a suggestion, it might be ballanced later:



Notice that in this suggestion, the skill can be developed to "Ultimate" level - that does not mean that you need to have the Pendant of Mastery to get the last level: In my oppinion, the Ultimate Level should be achievable when all other skills are maxed up to Expert.

Abilities for these skills could be one ability not yet selected from each of the required skills.

What are the benefits of this system?
I like this system because it would allow for more freedom in customizing the Hero. Basically, any skill combination will give the option for an advanced class at some point. That's not saying that all advanced classes will be equally attractive - or accessible - for all factions, clearly some Heroes will be better suited for some specific classes.

In the suggested system, a Hero can potentially obtain both a Specialized skill and an Ellite skill, if he chooses from skills from 3 groups and 2 from another. That might be an advantage, but it might also make the Hero less versatile. Right now, this is just a sketch for how one could re-think the skill system, the details must be ballanced later.
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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted April 03, 2007 03:35 PM

Pretty interesting ideas

Just a quick note:
Quote:
- I want all skills to be accessible to all classes. This reduces the problem with balancing, and also makes for more versatile game approach. Some skills obviously still will be more suited for certain classes.

I disagree here. It's much more interesting if you have things unique for each class. That's why we have more than 1 faction, right?

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted April 03, 2007 03:38 PM

Well yes, but remember that with all the other skills, the skills are the same between the factions, but the abilities wary. If one wanted to develop the idea further, one could invent class-dependant abilities to all the advanced skills. It would be quite a job to conceive, though.
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dschingi
dschingi


Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
posted April 03, 2007 07:42 PM

Quote:
That's not saying that all advanced classes will be equally attractive - or accessible - for all factions, clearly some Heroes will be better suited for some specific classes.

That's exactly the problem. Putting skills in certain groups automatically favors some classes: Wizards will easily get into the Sorcery or Enlightenment group, while Knights will have good chances for Attack and Defense group. All other classes will have less options for the "Specialized" skills.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted April 03, 2007 09:04 PM

Well Alc I really always appreciate your efforts on topics like this with diagrams and lots of calculations and work

But I agree partially with ZL -- it would be much more interesting if each hero race had a few spcecific skills (also including standard ones as well).

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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted April 03, 2007 09:58 PM
Edited by Daystar at 22:04, 03 Apr 2007.

Hurrah! Alc is back to making complicated graphs about things that take half an hour to read! WOOT!

Quote:
Quote:
That's not saying that all advanced classes will be equally attractive - or accessible - for all factions, clearly some Heroes will be better suited for some specific classes.

That's exactly the problem. Putting skills in certain groups automatically favors some classes: Wizards will easily get into the Sorcery or Enlightenment group, while Knights will have good chances for Attack and Defense group. All other classes will have less options for the "Specialized" skills.


I disagree.  Demons can go for summoning, Dark Elves for Destruction or iresistable magic, Sylvan for Luck (duh) and Necropolis for despair.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted April 04, 2007 12:43 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 00:47, 04 Apr 2007.

Actually, I also have trouble with seeing the problem you mention, Death. I think all the classes has one or more abilities that suite them very well, in fact I can easily list two for each faction which would provide very nice skill combinations and also very usefull effects:

Haven: Absolute Moral (Defence + Logistics + Leadership) and Absolute Combat (e.g. Attack + War Machines + Defence + Leadership).
Inferno: Absolute Summoning (Logistics + Leadership + Sorcery + Destructive Magic) and Absolute Destruction (Attack + War Machines + Sorcery + Destructive Magic).
Necropolis: Absolute Despair (Defence + Logistics + Enlightenment + Dark Magic) or Absolute Misfortune (Attack + Luck + Enlightenment + Dark Magic).
Dungeon: Absolute Destruction (Attack + Luck + Sorcery + Destructive Magic) or Absolute Sorcery (Sorcery + Destructive Magic + Enlightenment + Dark Magic).
Sylvan: Absolute Luck (Attack + War Machines + Luck) and Absolute Combat (Attack + Luck + Defence + Logistics).
Academy: Absolute Enlightenment (Enlightenment + Light Magic + Dark Magic) or Absolute Summoning (Defence + Logistics + Sorcery + Summoning Magic).
Fortress: Absolute Misfortune (Attack + Luck + Enlightenment + Light Magic) or Absolute Despair (Defence + Leadership + Enlightenment + Light Magic).


I think the problem with customizing the Ultimate Skills for each faction is that if you want to do that either you will have to develop an awful lot of different skills or you will put a very tight restrain on the faction we regard to hero development (= the current system). This option would allow you to put together your Hero exactly as you wanted, and in almost all cases, you will get an option for an advanced skill. I think there's plenty of room for customizing each skill for the different classes by developing abilities that will tie to the racial skills.


And thanx, Daystar, nice to have a bit of time for posting, hope it was worth the time.
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Ataman
Ataman

Tavern Dweller
posted April 04, 2007 01:24 AM
Edited by Ataman at 01:25, 04 Apr 2007.

Alcibiades: Do you intend to actually make an ultimate skills mod? Do you think it would be possible with an engine very limited to modding? Unless the .exe file could be cracked, of course.

I am hoping your answer is yes.

-Ataman
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted April 04, 2007 01:37 AM

Alas, I don't think it would be possible to do this completely with Mods. I can easily move around with the different existing ultimates, and I think even I could make several ultimates available to each faction depending on the requirements. Thus, I could mimik some of this by putting Nature's Luck for "Absolute Luck", Howl of Terror for "Absolute Despair", Rage of the Elements for "Absolute Destruction", etc. However, I am unable to change the effects of these skills, and therefore the skills would generally only have value for one of the classes (like Rage of the Elements only providing a bonus for Warlock), which would mean that the Mod would be essentially useless.
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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted April 04, 2007 02:24 AM

I'm very sad about the lack of ease of modding involved. They said that they would release modding tools, but they have not, 'ave they?

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Ataman
Ataman

Tavern Dweller
posted April 04, 2007 02:34 AM

While we are at it, I would still like to make a few suggestions for your ideas:

(By the way, I prefer the wording of "Grandmaster Skills" over "Absolute Skills", and "Master Expertise" over "Ultimate Expertise")

--------------- Specialized Skills ---------------
Absolute Luck and Absolute Morale: Allow the hero to benefit from positive Morale and Luck (spells would still be boosted by Warlock's luck).

--------------- Elite Skills ---------------
Absolute Combat:
Instead of giving flat out magic resistance (since magic resistance does not involve anything offensive), how about having all around bonuses to hit points, damage, and magic damage resistances? Also, heroes' damage output could be multiplied by some high value (10 maybe?), so their attack would be more useful than their spellcasting.

Absolute Destruction:
I would give the skill some other name, since it is already taken up. Also, a simple bonus to spell damage is plain boring. A bonus to the side effects of damage spells is more interesting (and perhaps give earth spells some side effect as well?).

Absolute Misfortune:
I would change this skill to something completely different. Attack and Enlightenment don't really produce despair. I was thinking of different bonuses, such as giving all creatures on the battlefield teleport, and allowing the hero to cast Town Portal to any castle?

Absolute Summoning:
I would give the skill some other name, since it is already taken up. The ATB bonus is nice, but doesn't measure up to the other absolutes. More bonuses like allowing multiple stacks of Elementals/Phoenixes, or allowing Phantom Forces to be cast on any creature on the battlefield, and control in where the phantoms appear, etc.

Absolute Despair:
Same thing as with Absolute Misfortune, I would change this skill to something completely different. Perhaps make the skill act as if the hero learnt Suppress Light, Suppress Dark, Suppress Summoning, Suppress Destructive AND gain 1 mana for every 2 mana spent by the enemy (heroes and creatures)?

Absolute Sorcery:
I would give the skill some other name, since it is already taken up. The opposite of Absolute Combat, I would give all-around bonuses to spells. Maybe they use x% less initiative, or their effects are amplified by a certain amount (not just damage spells, but stat boosting/penalizing, protective, healing, and summoning spells).


-Ataman
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted April 04, 2007 09:18 AM

Excellent feedback, Ataman. Let me comment on it:

Quote:
(By the way, I prefer the wording of "Grandmaster Skills" over "Absolute Skills", and "Master Expertise" over "Ultimate Expertise")


Hmmm yes, all names are currently just "beta" names. If you look into the game data, you will find that the descriptor for "Nature's Luck" is "Absolute Luck", and it is much easier to work with such name in the first stage than to develop fancy names. Also, I think the names "Master" and "Grandmaster" implies that one is above the other, where here, they are more like alternatives/equivalent.

Quote:
--------------- Specialized Skills ---------------
Absolute Luck and Absolute Morale: Allow the hero to benefit from positive Morale and Luck (spells would still be boosted by Warlock's luck).


I think the skills as such are more than strong enough already - but that would make excellent abilities. That would also reflect the Attack/Defence factor involved here.

I think there's more need for upgrading 'Absolute Enlightenment' - maybe add that Hero automatically will learn all spells of appropriate level in his known schools besides being able to learn the spells from the other schools. Or add some stat bonus like with normal Enlightenment.

Quote:
--------------- Elite Skills ---------------
Absolute Combat:
Instead of giving flat out magic resistance (since magic resistance does not involve anything offensive), how about having all around bonuses to hit points, damage, and magic damage resistances? Also, heroes' damage output could be multiplied by some high value (10 maybe?), so their attack would be more useful than their spellcasting.


In fact, orignally I intended this skill to increase Hero melee output, and have Resistance bonus in one of the other skills, but I changed my mind before posting. The reason for this was that Hero melee attack will be underpowered in epic style battles, and you will favor casting I believe. However, one could tweak this skill a lot of one wanted to develop related abilities - for instance, it might be changed to increased bonus of the same style as Attack and Defence.

Quote:
Absolute Destruction:
I would give the skill some other name, since it is already taken up. Also, a simple bonus to spell damage is plain boring. A bonus to the side effects of damage spells is more interesting (and perhaps give earth spells some side effect as well?).


About the name, again, it is just preliminary. I think the bonus will be more than enough to make this skill attractive for Warlocks, but I agree that some modification of the special effects would be fun to add - maybe as abilities? I chose the spell damage because this was supposed to be the equivalent of Rage of the Elements.

Quote:
Absolute Misfortune:
I would change this skill to something completely different. Attack and Enlightenment don't really produce despair. I was thinking of different bonuses, such as giving all creatures on the battlefield teleport, and allowing the hero to cast Town Portal to any castle?


This is obviously the equivalent of the current Absolute Protection of the dwarven Runemage, and I actually like the way it works. The connection to Enlightenment might not be entirely obvious, but this comes through the Dark Magic influence.

Quote:
Absolute Summoning:
I would give the skill some other name, since it is already taken up. The ATB bonus is nice, but doesn't measure up to the other absolutes. More bonuses like allowing multiple stacks of Elementals/Phoenixes, or allowing Phantom Forces to be cast on any creature on the battlefield, and control in where the phantoms appear, etc.


Again, this was supposed to match Urgash' Call, but in a toned down version, so bonuses should not be too great - more can be added as abilities, I really like the multiple stack of Elementals for instance, and also something like choosing your own type of Elementals. I think the ATB bonus will be very worthwhile for Gating, Phantom Forces and Phoenix users, but maybe it's too much of a niche to develop.

Quote:
Absolute Despair:
Same thing as with Absolute Misfortune, I would change this skill to something completely different. Perhaps make the skill act as if the hero learnt Suppress Light, Suppress Dark, Suppress Summoning, Suppress Destructive AND gain 1 mana for every 2 mana spent by the enemy (heroes and creatures)?


I actually like the idea of having this skill, because it counters Absolute Morale and works as a mirror of Absolute Misfortune. Obviously, it's an equivalent of the current Howl Of Terror, and again, the key component is Dark Magic. And it's simple yet usefull, which is something I like in an ability.

Quote:
Absolute Sorcery:
I would give the skill some other name, since it is already taken up. The opposite of Absolute Combat, I would give all-around bonuses to spells. Maybe they use x% less initiative, or their effects are amplified by a certain amount (not just damage spells, but stat boosting/penalizing, protective, healing, and summoning spells).


Duh, there obviously should not be two Absolute Sorceries - I think the old name was Absolute Enchantment, but it got mixed up somewhere along the line. Anyway, about the bonus: I chose Irresistability because that would be a mirror of the Resistance used in Combat, and thus the two skills (Combat vs. Sorcery Enchantment) would in fact be opposites. Initiative bonus could not be used, because that's the benefit of the other Absolute Sorcery (the specialized one). I like the idea of increasing numerical counters of none-damaging spells, however - that might be a good adjustment for Absolute Enlightenment, since that ability goes with Light and Dark magic, which would benefit exactly from this! Boosting of Summoning numbers could go with Absolute Summoning to improve that a bit.

I think I'll try to update a couple of the skill descriptions based on this.
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ChaosDragon
ChaosDragon


Famous Hero
posted April 04, 2007 05:09 PM
Edited by ChaosDragon at 17:18, 04 Apr 2007.

Quote:
Haven: Absolute Moral (Defence + Logistics + Leadership) and Absolute Combat (e.g. Attack + War Machines + Defence + Leadership).
Inferno: Absolute Summoning (Logistics + Leadership + Sorcery + Destructive Magic) and Absolute Destruction (Attack + War Machines + Sorcery + Destructive Magic).
Necropolis: Absolute Despair (Defence + Logistics + Enlightenment + Dark Magic) or Absolute Misfortune (Attack + Luck + Enlightenment + Dark Magic).
Dungeon: Absolute Destruction (Attack + Luck + Sorcery + Destructive Magic) or Absolute Sorcery (Sorcery + Destructive Magic + Enlightenment + Dark Magic).
Sylvan: Absolute Luck (Attack + War Machines + Luck) and Absolute Combat (Attack + Luck + Defence + Logistics).
Academy: Absolute Enlightenment (Enlightenment + Light Magic + Dark Magic) or Absolute Summoning (Defence + Logistics + Sorcery + Summoning Magic).
Fortress: Absolute Misfortune (Attack + Luck + Enlightenment + Light Magic) or Absolute Despair (Defence + Leadership + Enlightenment + Light Magic).



some of those list of example are strange

abs destruction and summoning for inferno? you must be joking, two things that badly need spellpower are given to a town that have almost none of that. What benefit of those two to this town, even that's only example.

imho academy need to increase their might, rather than increase their magic potential like abs summoning.

I know that those are only an example, and evey faction can get what they want, yet, some of those are strange.


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Ataman
Ataman

Tavern Dweller
posted April 04, 2007 06:38 PM
Edited by Ataman at 18:40, 04 Apr 2007.

Quote:
Excellent feedback, Ataman. Let me comment on it:



I will give you more of that.

Quote:

Hmmm yes, all names are currently just "beta" names. If you look into the game data, you will find that the descriptor for "Nature's Luck" is "Absolute Luck", and it is much easier to work with such name in the first stage than to develop fancy names.



I like many of the original beta names (Sunfire as opposed to Mana Burst, or Invocation as opposed to Irresistable Magic) better than the new names. This could be easily modded, and I am sure someone will release a mod that changes back some of the names to their original ones.

Quote:

Also, I think the names "Master" and "Grandmaster" implies that one is above the other, where here, they are more like alternatives/equivalent.


So Absolute Luck is on the same level as, say, Ultimate Artificier? Not to mention the Pendant of Mastery grants Ultimate Gating rather than Master Gating?

Quote:

In fact, orignally I intended this skill to increase Hero melee output, and have Resistance bonus in one of the other skills, but I changed my mind before posting. The reason for this was that Hero melee attack will be underpowered in epic style battles, and you will favor casting I believe.


You should keep in mind a hero going for Absolute Combat would only learn a single magic school, at most. So the hero wouldn't do much spellcasting anyway.

The problem really, is the hero's melee damage (or ranged in most cases) does not increase exponentially, and so it couldn't keep up with the damage output of his/her stacks.

Quote:

This is obviously the equivalent of the current Absolute Protection of the dwarven Runemage, and I actually like the way it works. The connection to Enlightenment might not be entirely obvious, but this comes through the Dark Magic influence.



You are assuming the hero will always learn Dark Magic when pursuing Enlightenment. These ultimate skills should be flexible enough to take into account that heroes might not choose the "correct" combination of skills, or the combination of skills that make sense.

Quote:

I think the ATB bonus will be very worthwhile for Gating, Phantom Forces and Phoenix users, but maybe it's too much of a niche to develop.


Phantom Forces already have an ATB bonus, one of the reasons why it should be a level 5 spell rather than a level 3 spell.

Quote:

I actually like the idea of having this skill, because it counters Absolute Morale and works as a mirror of Absolute Misfortune. Obviously, it's an equivalent of the current Howl Of Terror, and again, the key component is Dark Magic. And it's simple yet usefull, which is something I like in an ability.



Again, you are assuming the hero will learn a certain combination of skills.

----------------------
While the concept is a fine one (if it weren't, I would not make criticisms since I wouldn't have cared), the main problem is, you are trying to stick an existing system of class-based ultimate skills into a new system of skill-based ultimate skills. Since all classes could learn these skills. The skills should be flexible enough to accomodate all classes and skill combinations, not just a single one for each skill.

Although you could substitute this by having all 6 secondary skills learnt at expert level (but not the perks themselves) once the hero knows an "elite skill". This would allow heroes to learn more than 6 secondary skills.

So a knight learning Light Magic, Enlightenment, Attack, and Warmachines would automatically recieve Dark Magic and Luck, at a level of proficiency dependant on the level of proficiency of Absolute Misfortune.
----------------------

-Ataman
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted April 04, 2007 08:07 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 20:13, 04 Apr 2007.

Quote:
I like many of the original beta names (Sunfire as opposed to Mana Burst, or Invocation as opposed to Irresistable Magic) better than the new names. This could be easily modded, and I am sure someone will release a mod that changes back some of the names to their original ones.


Yes, such a mod could easily be done. If you send me a list of which names you want to have changed, I could do it for you.

Quote:
So Absolute Luck is on the same level as, say, Ultimate Artificier? Not to mention the Pendant of Mastery grants Ultimate Gating rather than Master Gating?


Uhm, I'm not quite sure I understand this, but I think the answer is "no". The thing I label "Absolute Luck" is in fact a skill, which itself comes at three levels. You could call the skill something else - Fortune, for instance. It is not comparable to Ultimate Artificer, because that is just the 4th level of the Artificer skill, whereas Absolute Luck = Fortune is a skill itself. It would in fact be a new (7th) skill that the Hero could learn and level up, with associated abilities, just like any other skill, with the exception that you would need to know Luck, Defence and Logistics in order to learn this one.

The reason why I dislike the Master and Grandmaster terms for the Specilized and Ellite skills is that this would imply that one of them is better than the other. They are not, both of them are just "advanced" skills that you can learn when a certain prerequisite is met. The only difference is that some of them (the "specilized skills") requires that you learn all three skills in one skill-group, whereas the others (the "ellite skills") require that you learn two skills from two skill-groups. Thus, they are different - one focuses on specilizing in one group, the other focuses on the synergy between two groups - but one is not better or worse than the other.

Quote:
You should keep in mind a hero going for Absolute Combat would only learn a single magic school, at most. So the hero wouldn't do much spellcasting anyway.

The problem really, is the hero's melee damage (or ranged in most cases) does not increase exponentially, and so it couldn't keep up with the damage output of his/her stacks.


Yes, the Combat skill would be for a truely might-oriented Hero. The reason why I don't want to focus on the melee damage is that I think the resistance bonus will be more usefull. This will help him quite well in countering magic-oriented Heroes with Dark or Destructive Magic. Of course, it's of less benefit against another Might hero.

Quote:
You are assuming the hero will always learn Dark Magic when pursuing Enlightenment. These ultimate skills should be flexible enough to take into account that heroes might not choose the "correct" combination of skills, or the combination of skills that make sense.


Not necessarily - personally, I see no problem with the Hero getting the Misfortune or Despair skills even if he does not choose Dark Magic. For me, Dark Magic is simply the tie that explains the connection between the Enlightenment group and this skill. One could, of course, set the restriction that to learn this skill, the Hero should have Dark Magic, but I don't see any need for it. This is just to explain my reasoning when I developed this skill.

Quote:
Phantom Forces already have an ATB bonus, one of the reasons why it should be a level 5 spell rather than a level 3 spell.


It does? I was not aware of that. I will have to look into the details with that, maybe then the skill would need tweeking.

Quote:
While the concept is a fine one (if it weren't, I would not make criticisms since I wouldn't have cared), the main problem is, you are trying to stick an existing system of class-based ultimate skills into a new system of skill-based ultimate skills. Since all classes could learn these skills. The skills should be flexible enough to accomodate all classes and skill combinations, not just a single one for each skill.

Although you could substitute this by having all 6 secondary skills learnt at expert level (but not the perks themselves) once the hero knows an "elite skill". This would allow heroes to learn more than 6 secondary skills.

So a knight learning Light Magic, Enlightenment, Attack, and Warmachines would automatically recieve Dark Magic and Luck, at a level of proficiency dependant on the level of proficiency of Absolute Misfortune.
----------------------

-Ataman


Again, I actually don't think this will be a problem. Especially for the Ellite skills that require only 4 of 6 possible skills, I see a wide range of opportunities for any class to learn most of them. The specialized ones, that would require 3 skills from one group, have more specific requirements, and thus might prove more problematic - but I can in no way see that this system will make it more difficult to get to the goal - quite the opposite, as I see it, for all classes, it will be easier to get to the advanced skills than it is currently to get to the Ultimate Abilities, because the requirements are much more open.

About the idea of learning all the skills at achieving the advanced skill: That would be too powerfull. I was actually aiming towards something here that was less powerfull than the current Ultimate Abilities.




Quote:

some of those list of example are strange

abs destruction and summoning for inferno? you must be joking, two things that badly need spellpower are given to a town that have almost none of that. What benefit of those two to this town, even that's only example.

imho academy need to increase their might, rather than increase their magic potential like abs summoning.

I know that those are only an example, and evey faction can get what they want, yet, some of those are strange.


As I see it, Absolute Summoning is 100 % equivalent to the current Urgash' Call - maybe even better, because Urgash' Call means that the units arrive instantly but will have to wait before acting, meaning they will get killed, whereas Absolute Summoning will make the arrive later, but act instantly. Of course, less usefull for blocking shooters, but deffinitely not useless for Inferno. Absolute Destruction - perhaps not the best choice, but you could go for Absolute Luck eaqually well.

About Academy: They currently have Arcane Omniscience. The new system would leave them with Absolute Enlightenment, which is very much the same (albeit toned down, certainly). Besides that, they would have the option for going for several other abilities if they wanted - even some might-oriented ones, that they currently cannot go for. Therefore, I don't understand the concern that this system would leave the factions worse than they are now? As I see it, they get the same option as now, plus a number of extra options they haven't got in the current system. Maybe I'm missing something, but at least that was the idea.
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What will happen now?

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