|
|
Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
|
posted April 02, 2007 12:21 PM |
|
|
The Level up
Another Easter topic!
Leveling up is of course the most crucial thing for any hero, but when reaching high levels 25+, and all the crucial skills and abilities are aquired (unless chasing the ultimates), the bonus doesn't become very rewarding compared to all the XP needed.
For instance, Dark Revelation is considered to be a overpowered ability by some, but what it does is simply giving the hero another level, 1-2 points to primary attributes (because of enlightenment), a few more dmg points to the attack (which usually never is used at that time) and perhaps boost an ability or so. Still it makes it just more difficult to achieve another level.
Enlightenment surely gives the hero achieve levels easier in the beginning, but if it wasn't for the stat bonus it would have been very crappy (like in Heroes III). Do you consider the XP bonus at all when getting Enlightnement?
Scalemail of Enlightenment and the Turban also, but this sacrifices room for other Arties. Do you use them?
So, after the neccecary level is achevied for your crucial abilities, and unless chasing the ultimate, how important do you see leveling up for your hero. Is it too hard, and should it be better bonuses in forms of better abilities waiting behind the others?(except for the ultimate of coirse)?
Personally, I find it something I do most for fun, creeping and visiting tress, but it doesn't improve my hero almost at all. You have perhaps a primary skill at 30 when you are level 25 (with arties, enlightenment and so), so getting +1/2 to that skill and a crappy ability you have avoided the whole game (which you now are forced to take), doesn't make much difference.
____________
Darkeye
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
posted April 02, 2007 12:34 PM |
|
|
I just looooove leveling up.
I know, from a game point of view, it's a bit silly, but I must admit it: I LOVE leveling up.  I definitely like taking Enlightenment early for the XP bonus, and I have a very hard time not taking XP from the chests - ok, I'm getting better at the latter, but when I find that 1500 XP chest, I'm always sorely tempted to go for the XP. By now, my XP addition has been cut back so that I only do it when I'm below level 12, though.
I can understand all the mathematics behind why the XP from Enlightenment is useless in the long run etc., but building up the Hero, the excitement of whether you will get the skills you want, and so on, is much of what makes the game fun for me. That's why I hate the new XP scale, where you will almost never level up beyond level 28 or something.
That's also why I would really like to see some better high-level ideas for skills and abilities - a new more accessible model for Ultimate Abilities, maybe something like epic level skills or abilities, so that you will not just be "done" with your hero when all the skill slots have been used (if that was possible, which it is not because of that crappy exponential XP system  ). Advanced classes is another thing I'd love to see, because it gives you more options in customizing your Hero.
So I must say, I'm totally an epic-style player. I love huge maps where you will amass massive armies, and build your Hero up to god-like levels. Yay!
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
|
|
posted April 02, 2007 12:47 PM |
|
|
I guess we are both the same then  I also am very attempted to take the XP from chests early on, but when playing on Heroic, I normally can't afford it  Especially fun is it when having expert enlightenment and perhaps the scale mail, making the chest almost 2000 XP as well
I support you 100% in the quest for a new skill system. First, as you have discussed earlier, the special abilites need to be rearranged / modified, so the better ones are available after picking certain combinations. Today you'll get often the most crappy ones behind the others which makes no sense at all.
And, I agree that a new class system could flavour the game even more, but how to mod it??? Convincing Nival would seem virtual impossible (perhaps bribing them with a ship of vodka  )
The XP ladder should be moddable though. Reaching level 40 would be good fun 
|
|
Pomo
Famous Hero
The lone peasant
|
|
posted April 02, 2007 01:06 PM |
|
|
Nice avatar
Back on topic - I don't personally consider the current system too hard to level up, probably because I'm more interested in multiplayer games than single, so I don't share the enthusiasm for enormous maps that you play over nine months.
The experience bonus from enlightenment is pretty meaningless in my opinion (I NEVER take exp from chests ) - the artifacts are fine if you find them, it would be a waste to buy though, and if I'm facing a tough-ish fight I would always prefer to have artifacts that are going to help me in the fight.
____________
linkTouched by His Noodly Appendage
|
|
ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
|
|
posted April 02, 2007 01:20 PM |
|
|
|
After i have most of the crucial abilities, usually lv 25 or 26, leveling by creeping become a waste of turn, unless the neutral creeps guard a very nice arties, but leveling via tree is good, to complete another crucial abilities
|
|
Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
|
|
posted April 02, 2007 02:17 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Nice avatar
Thanks. I considered yours as well, but it's better to have a unique one
Quote:
The experience bonus from enlightenment is pretty meaningless in my opinion (I NEVER take exp from chests ) - the artifacts are fine if you find them, it would be a waste to buy though, and if I'm facing a tough-ish fight I would always prefer to have artifacts that are going to help me in the fight.
I usually swap arties before a fight; but often forget. Of course the xp-arties doesn't help you in the battle and must be worn, so if I'm pressed I skip them usually.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 02, 2007 04:57 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I usually swap arties before a fight; but often forget.
Yeah, I hate that. Some clever person actualyl once suggested in the Altar that each hero should have two paperdolls for artifacts, one for Combat artifacts, and one for Adventure artifacts. I think that is a brilliant idea, because the game cannot forbid you to change before and after combat, so rather they should accomodate to that. Eh - and sorry for venturing off topic.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
|
|
posted April 02, 2007 06:41 PM |
|
|
|
Yes, the game isn't very flexible and if you want to maximize your efforts, undfortunelately, you have to swap arties for every big battle. Like, I had the pendant of mastery for Naadir the other game. You only need it for the first day when the Dark Energy points comes, and then swap after that. Another thing is the boots of swift journey, or knowledge arties (unless accumulating mana during combat). Two artifact set would be great, but unfortunelately very unlikely
|
|
Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
|
|
posted April 02, 2007 09:54 PM |
|
|
Do you guys usually go for better mastery, or skills?
|
|
Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
|
|
posted April 02, 2007 10:30 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Do you guys usually go for better mastery, or skills?
That depends very much. With Dark Magic I usually take Master of Mind asap, and then straight to expert; same goes for Master of Wrath with Light. Scouting asap on big maps and pathfinding also, while navigation of course on water maps.
|
|
executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
|
|
posted April 03, 2007 12:06 AM |
|
Edited by executor at 00:10, 03 Apr 2007.
|
Quote:
So I must say, I'm totally an epic-style player. I love huge maps where you will amass massive armies, and build your Hero up to god-like levels. Yay!
Well, I am as well , and I also HATE current XP system (I loved my 45+ level heroes in HoMM 3 ). I still take XP from chest on single, and from 1500s on multi(I know it's no good, but I can't help it)
Epic classes/abilities are a very interesting idea. For epic players at least .
And a very good remark of yours about dark revelation being a liability, Darkeye. I completely agree.
However, it is logical that the system should be exponential, but this one is simply too steep. Reaching this damn level 40 should be avaible, at least in campaigns!(it is not, my best hero in camps was lvl 33 Findan  )
____________
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
|
|
Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
|
|
posted April 03, 2007 01:25 AM |
|
|
|
Yes, Findan was my highest as well, but there was a kind of bug in the game as he leveled down between campaigns after he had passed 30.
|
|
ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
|
|
posted April 03, 2007 01:17 PM |
|
|
I also enjoy long games and like the idea of epic abilities
Hope it will be implemented some day
|
|
executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
|
|
posted April 03, 2007 10:28 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Yes, Findan was my highest as well, but there was a kind of bug in the game as he leveled down between campaigns after he had passed 30.
Same happened to me. But this was great, he retained all the stats/skills and has lower reqs for new levels LOL.
____________
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
|
|
plexus22
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 05, 2007 04:54 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Nice avatar
Back on topic - I don't personally consider the current system too hard to level up, probably because I'm more interested in multiplayer games than single, so I don't share the enthusiasm for enormous maps that you play over nine months.
The experience bonus from enlightenment is pretty meaningless in my opinion (I NEVER take exp from chests ) - the artifacts are fine if you find them, it would be a waste to buy though, and if I'm facing a tough-ish fight I would always prefer to have artifacts that are going to help me in the fight.
Doesnt the experience bonus from enlightenment also apply to experience gained from battle not just chests?
|
|
Destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
|
|
posted April 05, 2007 05:12 AM |
|
|
the combination of turban, scale mail and enlightenment if found relatively early can be have a huge impact on your characters level in a 5-6 week map.
45% bonus xp is alot, and it hides your better artifacts from opponents view. Just out of curiosity what do you wear on your head to improve combat? with the exception of maybe a lion crown I cant think of anything.. +knowledge helps at the well not in combat. Some of the initiative mods are ok, but vs lets say.. a horde or throng of creatures which may yield 3-4 K xp.. increase that by 45% and becomes worthwhile.
In a recent game I collected this combo in week 1, scalemail from a skeleton and crown from a shipwrecker, and at the final combat week 5 my hero was level 28 my opponents 23. Thats alot of extra stats and some masteries.
Individually however neither enlightenment or the artifacts are enough to make me say YES!
|
|
Pomo
Famous Hero
The lone peasant
|
|
posted April 05, 2007 05:40 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Doesnt the experience bonus from enlightenment also apply to experience gained from battle not just chests?
Yes it does - the point about not taking XP from chests is an aside, although rereading my post I can see how it's not very clear.
____________
linkTouched by His Noodly Appendage
|
| |
|
|
