Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: My evaluation of creatures
Thread: My evaluation of creatures This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 03, 2007 01:23 AM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 00:21, 04 Apr 2007.

My evaluation of creatures

I got just got an idea to create chart my personal chart with creatures strength. Creatures from each tier will be given numbers 1...7 The better unit the higher stat , lets start. Ive been taking into consideration growth and usefulness of given creature in creeping and final fight. In my evaluation I make an assumption that the game lasts about 5 weeks when caster units are still good. I'm too lazy to give comments on each number though. Names may be different but i consider only upgraded creatures. I'm not going to take lvl 7 into account because i think they dont have too much impact on a game right now. If one wants to include it he may add few points to ranger and deduct from necro, rest is more or less on the same lvl.

Ive done this chart in the way of hierarchy. It may not be the best way to compare creatures because sometimes differences between units are very small and on the chart its few points but i wanted to stick to it because if i didn't it would be hard to exactly evaluate their strength.
In other words, in some cases it was hard to me to put 1 but i had to do it because in my opinion all creatures from given tier are just better.





Academy

Gremlins 7

Gargoyles 6

Golems 4

Mages 7

Djinies 1

Rakashas 2

Total  27


Dungeon

Assasins 2

Fury 5

Minotaurs 2

Raiders 4

Hydras 7

Matriarchs 4

Total 24


Heaven

Conscripts 1

Marksmen 7

Squires 6

Griffins 6

Inquisitors 4

Palladins 6


Total 30



Inferno

Imps 5

Demons 1

Cerbers 1

Succurubs 3

Nightmares 5

Pit lords 3


Total 18


Skeletons 4

Zombies 2

Ghosts 3

Vampires 2

Liches 3

Wrights 5


Total 19


Ranger

Sprite 3

Dancers 4

Hunters 7

Druirs 5

Unicorns 6

Treants 1


Total 26


Fortress

Defenders 6

Skirmishers 3

Raiders 5

Berserkers 1

Priests 2

Thanes 7

Total 24


So.. about the results. As we can see average is around 24. Inferno and Necropolis are way under. Academy and Ranger are slightly over and Heaven much above. Superiority of heavens troops can be easily explained by being pure might faction but i i cant find any anwser for Inferno and necropolis unfortunately. Ranger seems to be alright. Academy being pure magic faction should be slightly below average not above too(btw,Towerlord ,this is not whining).  

____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted April 03, 2007 01:46 AM
Edited by Elvin at 02:00, 03 Apr 2007.

Then you obviously missed some things in your calculations. Inferno has less than it should imo, especially the cerberi.

Edit: I forgot to ask, why are the tier 7 not included?
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
emilsn
emilsn


Legendary Hero
posted April 03, 2007 09:23 AM
Edited by emilsn at 09:24, 03 Apr 2007.

I disagree! ... You need Treants WAY MORE!! They are like Hydras, life savers.

also disagree on: Fortress

Fortress yours: Defenders 6, Skirmishers 3, Raiders 5, Berserkers 1, Priests 2, Thanes 7, Total 24

Fortress mine: Defender 4, Skirmishers 7, Raiders 7, Berzerkers 6, Priests 2, Thanes 3, Total 29.

Now i'm a fortress fan, but let me explain: Defender, You just need them next Skirmishers and Priests to use their shield skill! There they stand and keep everything away.

Skirmishers, I'm dissapointed over your rate! These are cripplers, they totally stop everything from nearing your troops! And in creeping you just get Ammo cart and use these! They cripple and then they kill.

Raiders, okay we know why? Fast, lovely with bash, with some runes lovely.

Berzerkers, Just underestimating them! With Rune of charge and Berzerker rage they will remove EVERYTHING!!!! You can win battles only with berzerkers and Raiders! ...

Priests, You might need them for mark of fire or a deflect missel, but well nothing else, let them shoot.

Thanes, They are fast, but just not enough... For creeping worthless, finally battles they can hold on for a long time, but i really want to put my money on Berzerkers and Raiders...

And again you must have considered the towns specialties, for a town like Fortress lives by the strenght of the runes! Just as much as Dungeon needs magic... You missed that ..

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 03, 2007 10:03 AM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 10:15, 03 Apr 2007.

As is said. This is how i see it. Ive been playing all castles and this is my judgment of their usefulness from my point of view. I haven't included other things like runes or magic or skills because its hard to compare such things. Sticking to creature comparison is more clear to me.


____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted April 03, 2007 10:47 AM

You got it all messed up, you totally disconsider inferno... and so many other bad evaluations ! I'll let DoomForge open your eyes about Inferno
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted April 03, 2007 12:08 PM
Edited by Elvin at 12:12, 03 Apr 2007.

Quote:

I'm not much into rating skills and units, considering its the practical sense I rely on but I admit I'm curious what my evaluation would be in comparison. Right now I'm at work so I cannot comment on them plus I'm sure it already has been done before. Let's see...
Btw the rating is according to the way I use them and the skills I take in early to midgame. If someone is wondering about something in particular ask away


Academy

Gremlins 7-5

Gargoyles 6-7

Golems 4-5

Mages 7-6

Djinies 1-4

Rakashas 3-6

Total  28

Not too good but I rely on magic anyway.


Dungeon

Assasins 2-3

Fury 5-7

Minotaurs 2-3

Raiders 4-4

Hydras 7-7

Matriarchs 4-6

Total 24

Minotaurs and raiders I don't use unless really pressed. I usually attack neutrals with many 1-unit stacks of assassins so I carry with me just furies, assassins and hydras. Later matriarchs too while the rest accumulate for a good battle later on.


Heaven

Conscripts 1-2

Marksmen 7-7

Squires 6-6

Griffins 6-7

Inquisitors 4-6

Palladins 6-9


Total 30

Hmm I wonder if I overestimate them Anyway this is according to their usefulness and survivability, not damage dealing ability. I usually don't upg priests too fast but they are worth it when I do.



Inferno

Imps 5-6

Demons 1-2

Cerbers 1-5

Succurubs 3-6

Nightmares 5-7

pit lords 2-5


Total 17

I haven't played many inferno games in comparison with others but with retaliation-stealing from gating, hellfire, motd and careful play they can damage a lot without suffering many casualties.


Skeletons 4-5

Zombies 2-3

Ghosts 3-5

Vampires 2-6

Liches 3-6

Wrights 3-7

Hey necromancy or not some of them can stand their ground! The skellie value has decreased with 2.1 however as the ghosts have become a lot more useful. As for the boosted(if a little)vamp lords stack hehehe


Total 17


Ranger

Sprite 3-4

Dancers 4-5

Hunters 7-7

Druirs 5-6

Unicorns 6-7

Treants 1-6


Total 26

You definitely need treants for guarding your hunters as your unicorns take advantage of their initiative and start attacking with luck! Against an offensive magic faction their usefulness remains as resistance aid.


Fortress

Defenders 6-7

Skirmishers 3-4

Riders 5-6

Berserkers 1-4

Priests 2-5

Thanes 7-8

Total 24

Shieldguards are more useful than one could expect against ranged or melee-with runes or not. Skirmishers without Carli are of limited use, blackbear riders are my main unit for creeping, berserkers are good once upgraded , priests are awesome yet you get them late, thanes no comment. All these greatly profit from runelore but they may play quite differently according to what you got in your guild.

Edit: Ah typos!




____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 03, 2007 12:38 PM

Meh i think i wasn't clear in my description but my point was to make a ranking for each tier and give all creatures in given tier places in ths ranking which means that the can be no situation like:
Crossbowmen 7 Gargoyles 7 , just one of them can get 7 , other must get something else. Thats why i said that i felt sorry for some creatures that obtained 1's because they aren't much worse from some other but still they are and i had to make a decision to stick to the scheme.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted April 03, 2007 01:44 PM

I hate when people evaluate the creatures with the hero's stats included. I mean, of course Haven will be the winner because it's MIGHT. Why should you not include ultra implosion spell?

Also, I don't think the Gremlin is the best tier 1 creature, especially in the last fight (the Familiars are great for stealing mana then)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 03, 2007 02:12 PM

Um i didn't include heroes stats. Ive had few games against inferno as a dungeon in my career and in none of them imps mattered, sorry.While you have around 150 mana, 30 less means nothing.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted April 03, 2007 02:15 PM

Quote:
While you have around 150 mana, 30 less means nothing.
Yes, but it's something, unlike the gremlins which deal zero damage

Also, you could get with no mana left right when you were about to defeat the opponent, and then he suddenly wins (trust me, DoomForge has experience in this, and played with Sinitar (mana saver))

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 03, 2007 02:24 PM

Well thats true gremlins might be slightly worse at this point in final battle but i included also creeping skills in my marks and imps are very poor at creeping. I gave them 5 because of their ability which can actually matter in late game but as all of lvl ones they dont mean much in final fight (havez gremlins sometimes do while rushing) and i made their marks mostly on creeping basis.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted April 03, 2007 02:59 PM

Master Gremlins deal decent damage in the final battle... but that is not their strong point ! They repair the Golems and the War Machines, and this is a very powerfull ability, has the same ressurection power as the Archangel(only it work on fewer creatures) ! Anyway ressurecting the Wizard's ballista in a rush might prove a decisive move .

They are no. 1 in my oppinion, better than imps because they are great for creeping too.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted April 03, 2007 04:06 PM

Hey Elvin how does that 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 assassin thing work?  I would imagine you'd run out of mana, starting with 10 points...maybe 20 if you get to the knowledge tower quick.
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 03, 2007 04:14 PM

Actually its 1-1-1-1-1 and furuies,rest of scouts hidden and no, you don't need much mana for this kind of creeping but certainly you got more than 20 mana if you pick right skills while leveling.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted April 03, 2007 04:21 PM
Edited by Elvin at 16:22, 03 Apr 2007.

Actually that would be 1-1-1-1 as I already carry 3 units, or 5 if I'm in dire need to defeat a neutral. That's useful for the first weeks where secrets of destruction and +1 knowlege from your town are a sure bet. I use it only against low hp shooters(definitely not priests! ) so that I can defeat say lots of hunters/marksmen etc. If it is a 10 initiative unit then I'll take all 5 assassin stacks just in case it is split in 2 and if you are forced to retreat you lose little.
Other ways are using the minos to defend and take damage or use tactics and furies on the 3rd tile from the edge. You will attack one with the furies and the other with spells but even this is risky.
Only later in the game can you use deep hydras with regeneration.

Edit: Seconded!
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 03, 2007 05:46 PM

It's not risky. I use it all the time and kill can kill a "horde" of archmages/elder druids with it. No problem. Ofc you have to level up a few times first, get +50% elemental dam artie, and maybe get a knowledge artie, but with my uberfast creeping there is no problem with it.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted April 03, 2007 05:48 PM

Not risky? What if the ArchMages are split in 3 stacks, get to act before your hero (killing three of your stacks) and then making morale?
Anyway, even without morale if they act first you're in trouble

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted April 03, 2007 06:21 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 18:26, 03 Apr 2007.

Quote:
Also, you could get with no mana left right when you were about to defeat the opponent, and then he suddenly wins (trust me, DoomForge has experience in this, and played with Sinitar (mana saver))


Right you are...

Quote:
Not risky? What if the ArchMages are split in 3 stacks, get to act before your hero (killing three of your stacks) and then making morale?
Anyway, even without morale if they act first you're in trouble


That happens very rarely, fortunately. If it happens, then you need to run - that's why I like to travel with a small army. Ok, it's a bit risky, but compared to creeping them with yrwanna+furies and no magic...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 03, 2007 06:23 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 18:32, 03 Apr 2007.

Let me quote Doomforge on this matter

Quote:

Well, if I say I know what I'm talking about, I usually do. No need to prove it further, I guess.


I don't have problems with this strategy either. I admit that you need to have sorcery and area spell pull this of tho.

About mana .. yeah ive seen your fight.Well mana isnt unlimited you can always end up being short of it. You need to figure out how to avoid worst.

But hey, who said that yrwanna cant have magic (is it broken or smth?)?
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 03, 2007 07:07 PM

Well the chart is ok but i would rank Imps and Trents higher. I'm curios also did you count external dwellings populations when compared creatures strenghts feluniozbunio?

Trents\Djinns\Nightmares... increased populations improves stack power and their usefullness.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0597 seconds