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| Thread: New factions and their advantages |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 09:41 AM |
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Edited by Sanyu at 09:49, 07 Apr 2007.
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New factions and their advantages
With the announcement of the upcoming expansion, we all now await for the coveted orcs. However, I am not too sure the orcs wont be overpowered. Just like in HoF, Fortress creatures have a whole new set of abilities and their heroes can learn new abilities. But the problem is, why cant all the other factions learn from the pool of new abilities. While abilities like Mana Burst can be learnt by many factions, Ignite is unique to the runemage. This sets me pondering whether it is fair that every new faction introduced gets to learn an unique set of abilities. Shouldn't all factions be revamped so that their heroes can learn those abilities too?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 10:35 AM |
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No, unique skills for some heroes are nice imo.
The orc faction will (probably) be out of magic, but with good magic protections. Well, I can't imagine barbarians casting cleansing, anyway, so unless they bump their magic protection sky-high, they will get owned by puppet master EXACTLY like the melee dungeon does. And if they overdo with magic protections, orcs become overpowered. Bah. hard choice. Anyways, some sort of imbalance is likely to get introduced here, sadly.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 10:38 AM |
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not necceserily . Warlock got its racial so its enough boost it somehow (ie lowering price of pendant of mastery or something)
I think that 40%-50% resistance would be acceptible
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 07, 2007 10:48 AM |
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Quote:
Just like in HoF, Fortress creatures have a whole new set of abilities and their heroes can learn new abilities. But the problem is, why cant all the other factions learn from the pool of new abilities. While abilities like Mana Burst can be learnt by many factions, Ignite is unique to the runemage. This sets me pondering whether it is fair that every new faction introduced gets to learn an unique set of abilities. Shouldn't all factions be revamped so that their heroes can learn those abilities too?
The dwarves aren't overpowered so I don't understand why you think the orcs will be. About the abilities I am rather divided. I believe that some MUST be unique but at the same time some should be redistributed or even with simpler prerequisites. If new factions weren't unique I'd be disappointed and I don't wish all abilities to be accessible by all-it's part of their identity.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 11:01 AM |
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Quote:
not necceserily . Warlock got its racial so its enough boost it somehow (ie lowering price of pendant of mastery or something)
I think that 40%-50% resistance would be acceptible
still scary, though.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 11:15 AM |
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Quote:
With the announcement of the upcoming expansion, we all now await for the coveted orcs. However, I am not too sure the orcs wont be overpowered. Just like in HoF, Fortress creatures have a whole new set of abilities and their heroes can learn new abilities. But the problem is, why cant all the other factions learn from the pool of new abilities. While abilities like Mana Burst can be learnt by many factions, Ignite is unique to the runemage. This sets me pondering whether it is fair that every new faction introduced gets to learn an unique set of abilities. Shouldn't all factions be revamped so that their heroes can learn those abilities too?
There are unique abilities for every kind of hero.
Each kind of hero needs different things. For example, 'Familiar Ground' ability is great for Knight, but it's not that great for Warlock.
And those differences, and main the variety, are the things that make the game interesting.
If you think that it's overpowered that faction has unique set of abilities, you are wrong.
You said that Dwarves are overpowered becuase of that. But look at their new skills. Most of them aren't useful at all for any other hero except of the Rune Mage.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 07, 2007 11:46 AM |
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Most?  Check these ones! Ignite, distract, mentoring, runic machines(no they don't need runes), eternal light, empathy, swift mind, preparation, shrug darkness. How are these not powerful for anyone? Even swift mind is helpful for a might hero bacause he can start with a mass haste and then it's gg 
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 12:59 PM |
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Give defense formation and preparation to warlocks. PRETTY PLEASE!! 
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 03:29 PM |
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No the dwarves own those skills, they should have them and no one else can learn their powers!! And well I do think dwarves are a bit unfair made, yes they have things NO ONE else have and actully Nival made to much difference between the dwarve skills and the other factions skills... They should have been more fair or give some of them to other factions -
Doom you said that you might think, that ORcs will have no magic, wouldnt that suck VERY VERY much? half of the skills are for a magic purpose, I counted enlightment with too... ! That would totally unfair if they had to magic! They should do dark and summoning ! YeaH
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 03:39 PM |
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That does beg the questions:
1) Will 5 trees simply be gone for the orcs (4 magics + sorcery)? Will anything replace them?
2) Will they have mana? Knowledge? Anything to do with the knowledge?
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 04:11 PM |
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Quote:
That does beg the questions:
1) Will 5 trees simply be gone for the orcs (4 magics + sorcery)? Will anything replace them?
2) Will they have mana? Knowledge? Anything to do with the knowledge?
Oh my god, they can't let that happen... [refers to 1)]
Also, there better not be any more of overpowered town guard. 2000 lvl 1 creature from a might faction sounds scary.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 04:44 PM |
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Doom you said that you might think, that ORcs will have no magic, wouldnt that suck VERY VERY much? half of the skills are for a magic purpose, I counted enlightment with too... ! That would totally unfair if they had to magic! They should do dark and summoning ! YeaH
Well in every part of homm series the barbarian faction was either severly handicapped in magic or couldn't cast spells at all. Perhaps it will work the same way here.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 04:47 PM |
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Well in every part of homm series the barbarian faction was either severly handicapped in magic or couldn't cast spells at all. Perhaps it will work the same way here.
I dearly don't hope so, since this game of HoMM really focus a lot on magic and not making: Might heros and Magic heros but trying to balance that out.
____________
Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 04:49 PM |
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Well, not casting spells at all means useless spellpower and knowlegde , that would indicate 70% chnces for attack and 30% for defence while leveling that would be somethin
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 06:02 PM |
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Quote:
that would be somethin
..easy to beat.
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Destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted April 07, 2007 07:51 PM |
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The major issue I will have if they eliminate magic completely is the total imbalance artifacts will have on multiplayer games.
Imagine your orc town is granted 5 different artifacts to fight for in his "area" these artifacts are...
Dragon wing mantle, Robe of Sar isis, Helm of the necromancer, Emerald slippers, Dragon bone greaves,......
Now your like hmmmmmm I can't use any of this ****.. well maybe the greaves.. I do look to have 6 non flying units. ok +10% init.
I would guess.. that if they make the orc faction as a very non magical town, they would limit the mage guild to level 2 perhaps. This would allow you to pick up a skill tree to get some of the masteries, or in hopes of learning good spells from the vast number of sights on a map that you can learn level 5 spells.
My hopes is that they replace the other 3 levels of mage guild with some sort of armory, something similar to the artificer ability for crafting more durable weapons and armor.
Of course it would stand to reason that a "tribe of orcs" might have some sort of witchdoctor or shaman maybe similar magic type structure as a rune guild.
I don't know just some ideas.. about a magic resistance type racial or a big bonus here.. yes that would make sense, or a magic dampener type building in town.. but think about 40% + luck +defense + a couple random artifacts, you will hit 100% without a whole lot of trouble.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 09:54 PM |
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Well i think Orcs will have Mage Guilds like other towns. Dark Magic is probably the first magic school and second will be perhaps be Summon Magic. Destruction it can't be when it's might fanction. They might even have Dark and Light magic like Haven.
In another hand there are possibility that they will do H4 style Might fanction. I would not mind if they where low on magic and only have one magic school in their guild. Hero could learn battle abilities and fight harder than other heroes. (creepers) They could use mana for these 'special' moves. Skill slots would boost army strenght and i would very mutch like to see Tribes of The East as strongest fanction in might. No good magic resistance for Orcs needet. Their weakness should be magic. Some mind-immunity creatures perhaps to leave some change vs Dark Magic.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 10:16 PM |
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Quote:
Their weakness should be magic. Some mind-immunity creatures perhaps to leave some change vs Dark Magic.
That is a little imba, only magic oriented faction that can take down orc. Please no countering of faction, a faction should can take down any other factions.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 07, 2007 10:26 PM |
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Destro23 got the point (as usual ) I guess that max mage guild lvl 2-3 would sort things out. They might have destructive + light
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2007 12:03 AM |
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I guess that max mage guild lvl 2-3 would sort things out. They might have destructive + light
Max mage guild perhaps 2-3 or 1 magic school but what could Orcs benefit from destructive? Dwarfs has destructive + light and it's seems reasonable whit Ignite and also whit Dragon/Armageddon combo. But Orcs are might fanction (atleast they should be!) No destructive here.
Quote:
That is a little imba, only magic oriented faction that can take down orc. Please no countering of faction, a faction should can take down any other factions.
No i would want Orcs as rivals of Haven in might. Haven heroes are only might oriental now whit Defense/Attack and Orc heroes should be Attack\Defense oriental. Haven uses Light magic what dosent require lots of spell power and Orcs should have similiar (dark) or skills to boost own army strenght(Bloodlust?).
Ofcurse game has to be in balance and no countering fanctions. I hope the creatures are little 'stronger' than Havens in melee. More tank units like Cyclops and other slow units whit higher attack rating. That can't be too mutch to asked when enemy has great Paladins.
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