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| Thread: How do u play...? [The creature discussion thread] |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 02:39 PM |
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The damage they do is huge.
Yeah ive seen it. They do a carnage.
Indeed, their attack tops most of level6 creatures with amazing 190+, counting the horde dwelling. It's actually more than emerald dragons do.. plus good initiative and speed. No wonder they are fragile.
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 02:43 PM |
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If you attack low level creatures so as to get, let's say, double damage, your Djinn will thus do 100 damage, right? This means you will kill the enemy stack twice as fast.
Agree...
But after ur attack, high-lvl creatures, from hostile army, would kill ur Djinns' stack within minute and without any problemz...
Isn't there any better strategy to use Djinns, than that kamikazze one???
And is there any sense to take them to small battles with monsters-high-lvl shooterz ( as Archliches, Titans ), or just wee should keep 'em in town then???
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 03:08 PM |
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Djinn Sultans are very unique creatures. Playing with them is different than playing with other creatures on their level.
First of all, They have 8 speed, what mean they can get to the enemy in one turn (large enemy).
They do a huge damage, but they have a tiny HP amount.
The best thing to do is to strike the enemy with this huge damage, before it kills them.
Waiting with Djinn Sultans is almost always pointless. You should use them before the enemy kills them.
Usally, I use the spells of the Djinn Sultans only when small amount of them is left.
However, if in the beginning of the battle I notice that there's very strong creature, that weakening it might be very helpful to get victory, you cast dark spell on him, with the Djinn, only if the hero can't help me with that.
I don't use the Light spells of the Djinn Sultan, unless almost all the Djinns were killed, and attacking with those who left won't help me much.
However, as I've said, I prefer to cast spells with the hero.
And about Light spells, they are much more useful when you cast them with hero.
Light Magic is one of the magic classes of the Wizard (Light and Summoning), and light spells are much more useful with mass effect, what the special skill abilities give.
I see the Djinn Sultan as offensive unit that should be used before it's killed. I don't see it as caster.
The hero is much better with casting spells-and with her/him, you can choose which magic you cast, it isn't randomal.
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executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
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posted April 22, 2007 03:11 PM |
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Edited by executor at 15:14, 22 Apr 2007.
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@sdfx
Attacking magmas recklessly in melee is nothing but fortress player wishes you to do  .
Djinns in mid-game act exactly as elvin said, so I won't elaborate on that.
In late game you have a variety of strategies, but first thing to be said is thet not using them is a stupidity. They are among best dmg-dealers in whole game(f.eg they top magmas), and only most tier 7, palas and maybe cerberi and archliches on close range with splash(but who has seen that  ) top them. They beat really strong.
The kamikaze strategy is one way to go. Equip guys with luck+att+init/morale (or +luck+init+morale) artie and they rock as nothing in this town.
You can try to go semi-kamikaze way, then switch att with def/hp(yes, +hp is useful on them), and they could live a little longer.
+morale/init in both situations gives them opportunity to act more times than once, which means further exploiting their dmg.
You may also want to preserve them and cast something, and then +def+hp+morale/init is the way to go. They are a decent caster then, and if given a chance, they can still punch painfully, after retaliation went to phoenix or sth. But enemy would rather want to dispose of them quickly, so I would not recommend this option.
One thing that works miracles with djinns is consume artifact. Since they are weak in hp, you get an abundance of creatures ressurected. So if they went very low in numbers, rather consume the artie then cast a spell. A highly damaging stack reborn in the middle of the battle can be very devastating... 
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Understanding is a three-edged sword.
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 04:06 PM |
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It's a focused strategy, but I always use them to attack the Shieldguards in the fortress army since they fly and aren't affected by shieldwall.
I also think it is best to attack low level creatures. If they retaliate, they'll do less damage.
I try to only attack enemies that do low damage on retaliate, even if they aren't very dangerous. I also try to attack units that have been attacked to avoid the retaliation.
If low numbers, cast either light or dark (depending on enemy magic resistance).
I think the Djinns should get 2 bonuses in next patch:
1) Their attack fires a random negative effect on the enemy, but it is cast at Basic level.
2) Their curses should not be cleansable.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 22, 2007 04:09 PM |
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1) Their attack fires a random negative effect on the enemy, but it is cast at Basic level.
agreed
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2) Their curses should not be cleansable.
Too much IMO! Ever had a 90% confusion on your shooters because of these genies? Their curses are cast at advanced level and for a creature that's enough already. 
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 05:31 PM |
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Edited by dfortae at 17:32, 22 Apr 2007.
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Too much IMO! Ever had a 90% confusion on your shooters because of these genies? Their curses are cast at advanced level and for a creature that's enough already.
Yeah, that's a bad one... But it IS luck based and doesn't happen all the time. Really though, when you stop and think about it, what's the difference between 90% not being able to attack and 90% DYING from a massive attack by the Djinns...
Also, some people don't have Cleansing anyway!
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 05:36 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
1) Their attack fires a random negative effect on the enemy, but it is cast at Basic level.
agreed
Quote:
2) Their curses should not be cleansable.
Too much IMO! Ever had a 90% confusion on your shooters because of these genies? Their curses are cast at advanced level and for a creature that's enough already.
Their spells are casted on advanced level, not basic.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 22, 2007 05:43 PM |
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I still don't see the connection between 1 (negative effect on enemy hit, like Spectral Dragon's weakness) and 2 (spells effect instantly, no need to attack) 
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 06:23 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
1) Their attack fires a random negative effect on the enemy, but it is cast at Basic level.
agreed
Quote:
2) Their curses should not be cleansable.
Too much IMO! Ever had a 90% confusion on your shooters because of these genies? Their curses are cast at advanced level and for a creature that's enough already.
Their spells are casted on advanced level, not basic.
Uh, read again... I know they are advanced NORMALLY. I said IF they attack, make it basic. If they USE the ability, leave it advanced...
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 06:25 PM |
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I still don't see the connection between 1 (negative effect on enemy hit, like Spectral Dragon's weakness) and 2 (spells effect instantly, no need to attack)
They are not related.
1) Advanced if explicitly used OTHERWISE make it basic level when attacking and HITTING.
2) REGARDLESS of if it was an attack giving basic curse or use that gives advanced curse, NEITHER are dispellable.
That is the two buffs I think the Djinns should have.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 06:58 PM |
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Yeah, I listed magmas but attacking thanes with djinns is probably much better idea. Still, magmas are next on my list. I wouldn't care much about shieldguards as they are pathetic and almost useless COMPARED TO the things that magmas and thanes are capable if IF they have enough time to pull their rune combos off. Going for some "safe" kills may be appealing at first but IMO it's best to simply attack the-major-threat stack hoping for a luck to trigger. Djinns are almost always the most damaging academy unit so.. they are the most dangerous academy unit.
I mean a fortress' player won't care much about his meatbag shieldguards even if they were pwned in no time but he definitely won't be too happy when his precious "combo machine" thanes are decimated
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 07:09 PM |
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I can see that this discussion leads to basic tactical decision : which units should you attack? Its not that easy to describe because its very situational. The rule of thumb is that you should attack unit that used its retaliation or most damaging stack which lvl is adequate(or inferior) to the attacker (or may be higher it it used its retaliation already and there is no other lower lvl high damage dealer around).
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 07:39 PM |
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Well, for me it's just
a)recognize major threat stacks
b)remove them ASAP
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Destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted April 22, 2007 08:10 PM |
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I use Djinns alittle differently I guess.
I use main stack for spell casting, buffing titans, cursing enemy ect.. and my heroes first move will be mark of the wizard to djinns. Then second move will be phantom forces on either titans or gremlins as the case may be and the additonal stack of sultans charges and does massive dmg.
I take them for creeping very rarely. And granted I'm not the most experienced of Academy players. I like them being the phantom force target for a couple reasons.
1) Very High Dmg.. the ghost ability makes them even more of a threat.
2) They are fast, when the phantomed stack is placed in front of sultans they can reach the back rows of the enemy, blocking shooters or beheading casters.
I guess it might be better to put the mark on the gremlins, mages or titans. But this allows those genies to sit back and let their phantom attack. Then the real stack can move in for "mop ups" When retals won't matter on their abissmal defense.
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 10:54 PM |
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Edited by dfortae at 22:54, 22 Apr 2007.
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Yeah, I listed magmas but attacking thanes with djinns is probably much better idea. Still, magmas are next on my list. I wouldn't care much about shieldguards as they are pathetic and almost useless COMPARED TO the things that magmas and thanes are capable if IF they have enough time to pull their rune combos off. Going for some "safe" kills may be appealing at first but IMO it's best to simply attack the-major-threat stack hoping for a luck to trigger. Djinns are almost always the most damaging academy unit so.. they are the most dangerous academy unit.
I mean a fortress' player won't care much about his meatbag shieldguards even if they were pwned in no time but he definitely won't be too happy when his precious "combo machine" thanes are decimated
I'm speaking from experience with Duel. Heroes can kill Thanes and higher level creatures with their attack very easily. Magic and other means should be used on higher level creatures (bypassing defense). When you're at the end of a battle, trying to kill 100 shieldguards with a hero's attack is impossible, but killing 4-5 Thanes is easy.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 11:41 PM |
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For me, duels are just strangely balanced. Things like knights with conscripts are really.. interesting But still I like it because it adds more variety to the game.
About phantom forces I agree that, it's probably way better to place a mark on titans than on something else because once the mark is declared the enemy will do everything to remove the MoTWed stack by shooters, hero spells and..
haven: paladins..
sylvan: emeralds
fortress: rune of charge
dungeon: meteor shower, furies, grim raiders
inferno: nightmares, cerberi. Also, this case is a bit different because succubi, with their chain shot, are a great threat for phantoms.
academy: djinns
necropolis: hmmmmm
Of course, phantoming is one of the best things to do. With mass haste and/or mass slow it's clearly the thing to do: it greatly increases army's
durability: 50% chance to miss and phantoms are threats that can't be simply ignored
damage: apart from doing damage itself phantoms may also be used to steal a retal
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted April 23, 2007 07:39 PM |
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So, to sum up, wee should use Djinns to make Kamkiazze Attack, or maybe Phantom 'em first and then charge...
And when they'll die (my favourite point) wee use overpowered Armageddon!(our troops don't sufffer much 'cuz of arties  )
Thank u all for taking part in this discussion.
You encouraged me to use Djinns as great offenisve unites!
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 24, 2007 10:51 AM |
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For me, the most overpowered thing about academy is the fact that wizards can abuse a powerful synergy between dark and light magic schools more than other heroes.
Things like mass slow + mass haste, mass righteous might + mass suffering creates a really huge hole between opposing armies. It's not even that easily counterable because of seal of darkness and suppress light perks that cause the enemy hero spend twice as much mana.
Of course, that doesn't mean "use mass spells only and forget that MotW + resurrection, phantom forces or MotW + Frenzy, Blindness exist." It's just that mass spells' main task is to create the best conditions for optimal MotW usage.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 25, 2007 12:15 PM |
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Yeah, well, academy can do it, along with our favorite well-balanced town aka Haven 
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