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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Duel Editor Improvments
Thread: Duel Editor Improvments
Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted May 08, 2007 11:13 PM
Edited by Darkeye at 23:14, 08 May 2007.

Duel Editor Improvements

Its wonderful at last to have a editor for making Duel Heroes, but it's a shame it doesn't play with the same rules as the exisiting duel heroes already in play.

Making new heroes with the strong restraint to the stack cap only makes the heroes variation more difficult now. If you want your hero to specialize in low level creatures, he has to compensate for the lack of strong units with heaps of artifacts.
For instance  making Yrwanna with big stacks Blood Furies like Eruina cannot be achieved in the editor as 30 furies per stack is the limit, making it only possible to have 210 of them, and then no other creatures I really hope this stack-limit can be modded away soon.

Same goes for the randomness for Enlightenment. You should here get more points to distribute IN the editor, not as a variable bonus from time to time.

To make higher/lower levels than exactly 15 should also be allowed. I'm thinking about making some lvl 30 super heroes with Ultimate skills fighting each other

To be able to swap Specializations could be fun.

And finally to be able to have other creatures than excactly those of the heros alignment. Elementals, Neutrals, Renegades should also be included. It could be interesting to see a Knight leading undead forces or Zehir controlling an army solely of elementals and Phoenixes

That was my first opinion on improvents I clearly see could make duel heroes more interesting to make.

What other improvents do you wish for in this editor?

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 08, 2007 11:17 PM

Quote:
Same goes for the randomness for Enlightenment. You should here get more points to distribute IN the editor, not as a variable bonus from time to time.


Actually i like this feature

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Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted May 08, 2007 11:38 PM

I can see your point, but it doesn't apply to the main rules which is my point. The only randomness you'll meet there is the terrain.

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dfortae
dfortae


Known Hero
posted May 09, 2007 12:54 AM

Yeah, I had a hard time modifying the existing heroes to try to get them at least similar to the originals.  But I think the ones I uploaded do a pretty good job (and are much more balanced than the originals).  Check it out on the other Duel thread Doom made.

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radar
radar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
posted May 09, 2007 10:43 AM

I hate stack limit. eg 30 Vampire Lords is not much

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted May 09, 2007 12:13 PM

Quote:
I hate stack limit. eg 30 Vampire Lords is not much

The stack limit is just imbalanced for lower level creatures, because higher tiers have an advantage in growth... it should be based on cost or power or something

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 09, 2007 12:15 PM

Why?

Growth-based limit is ok fir me.

And "power" is a very relative term. What's good for one hero may be very weak for another.

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted May 09, 2007 12:19 PM
Edited by ZombieLord at 12:20, 09 May 2007.

Quote:
Growth-based limit is ok fir me.

That's because you like stupid Paladins (and they are tier 6), and don't want to see Furies, for example, strong (because being tier 2 the growth system doesn't favor them and thus are weak)
This game sucks with the idea of 'unfair' growth I'm sure everyone likes it because they like high level creatures, but if they were level 1 I'm sure you won't like Paladins (an example) anymore

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted May 09, 2007 12:59 PM

hey, I liked Skellie Archers

And I don't necesserily like paladins, they look good but they are too strong, counting all the things that make them superior, ofc.

And if you want the tier system to disappear, we would need to make all dwelling costs equal, and all of them available at the same time, which would lead to 1-unit armies every game. If all of them are power-equal, players would just choose the one that is the best and quintiple its growth. Like in heroes IV, but to bigger extent. And as long as the units are different, they will be never equal. One of them simply has to be more effective


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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 09, 2007 01:51 PM

For me this growth system is just a barrier.. if somebody wants to use the growth system when creating duel heroes he can even without this limitation, so why to bother doing so for everybody?
I know there were votes supporting it before they made it but i think they were wrong ideas and now will be even more complaints then support for this idea.
Only purpose of doing this is trying to keep balance in creating heroes but still other factors cause imbalances in duels so its no use to introduce any barriers when creating heroes.

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Darkeye
Darkeye


Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
posted May 09, 2007 08:04 PM
Edited by Darkeye at 20:05, 09 May 2007.

I totally agree on that. The barrier just causes less variation as you will have to compensate with higher tiers to make up for low-level units.

This problem should however be easily moddable, so by changing a few lines of code, we could hopefully see an improved editor soon.

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted May 09, 2007 08:16 PM

Quote:
Growth-based limit is ok fir me.


6 Black Dragons vs 42 Assassins is fair?
who will choose Assassins with this limit?'
just stick to level 7 creatures -- you will have the most expensive army guaranteed!

at least once I'd like to see low level creatures (1-4) dominate the battlefield

Quote:
And "power" is a very relative term. What's good for one hero may be very weak for another.
Power is not relative, it's a fixed variable. Each creature has a cost, a power and an experience rating. These are 3 Nival-made variables assigned for each creature.

cost is the gold cost of course
power is the power of the creature -- the AI uses the power of your army to determine if he flees/fights/runs away in adventure map, etc
experience rating is the amount of experience you gain by killing this creature

I'd like a system based on costs instead, really. That would also self-balance it with other costing stuff like artifacts

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 09, 2007 10:54 PM

Quote:
I'd like a system based on costs instead, really.


That wouldn't work. Lv7 creatures would be useless then whit their insane costs. 6 Arch Devils or 1119,84 Imps?

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executor
executor


Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
posted May 10, 2007 12:06 AM

^ exactly. There must be some non-cost-based power counting system introduced, and everyone would have some controversions about it. But it would be better than what it is now.
Remember guys that with low tiers you can easily overabuse frenzy, vitality +arties .
____________
Understanding is a three-edged sword.

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 10, 2007 12:24 AM

Quote:
Remember guys that with low tiers you can easily overabuse frenzy, vitality +arties


What ever do you mean? *Hides away his super Ingvar*

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 10, 2007 12:32 AM

I think power would be fine 1 titan vs 50 or something m gremlins is alright i guess.

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executor
executor


Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
posted May 10, 2007 01:01 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Remember guys that with low tiers you can easily overabuse frenzy, vitality +arties


What ever do you mean? *Hides away his super Ingvar*


Close Homer .
____________
Understanding is a three-edged sword.

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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted May 10, 2007 05:27 AM

Well has anyone else tried dfortae's modified heroes?

I have been using them and it's very fun.  Every time I think I've found someone who is unbeatable I find someone else who can kick that hero's ***.

Now if only I could figure out how to get the original heroes to not mix in with dfortae's heroes...
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.

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dfortae
dfortae


Known Hero
posted May 21, 2007 12:16 AM

Quote:
Well has anyone else tried dfortae's modified heroes?

I have been using them and it's very fun.  Every time I think I've found someone who is unbeatable I find someone else who can kick that hero's ***.

Now if only I could figure out how to get the original heroes to not mix in with dfortae's heroes...


I'm working on creating a duel setup for every hero combination.  That should give us roughly double the number of duels we have now.  I've been doing my best to balance them and to create variety.  That way, if we pick random, we should have a lot of fun!

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PhoenixReborn
PhoenixReborn


Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
posted May 21, 2007 01:56 AM

Quote:

I'm working on creating a duel setup for every hero combination.  That should give us roughly double the number of duels we have now.  I've been doing my best to balance them and to create variety.  That way, if we pick random, we should have a lot of fun!


This might actually get me on-line.  I've never bothered before, but duels are pretty quick compared to a regular game.  Just don't bother with that 3x3 junk.

Let us know when you've uploaded the new set, can't wait.
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.

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