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| Thread: How do u play...? [The creature discussion thread] |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 11:57 AM |
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How do u play...? [The creature discussion thread]
That's question topic about creatures. At first let's discuss Djinns...
So, How do U play Djinns???
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted April 22, 2007 12:05 PM |
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That's a good question, I would like to hear some opinions on this, too.
Mostly I let them grow in castle and only take them with me for final battles, although sometimes I don't use them at all... I guess Mini artifacts can boost their defense a bit, but even with those they die easily after charging...
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open source for an open mind
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TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted April 22, 2007 12:12 PM |
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The Djins die however you use them... so initiative mini , luck , attack and charge ! Try to hit an important stack, that dies more than 50% from your hit.
The second option you have is using them for spells, splitting them in many stacks... and crippling your opponent or boosting the titans!
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 12:18 PM |
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I usually use 'em as a spellcasters:
-to weaken enemy shooters/chargers etc.
-to boost Rakshasas or/and Golems
I order 'em to attack very rarely- only if they can kill all the stack, or block shooterz...
The one way, which I've invented, to use Djinns properly is to preserve 'em as if they were Gremlins, and use First Aid Tent with Expert War Machines and First Aid skillz, u need also Tactics then, so that's stupid method...
Anyway, u can also try casting Endurance and other preserving/boosting spells but it gives simply nothing, wastes ur time and mana 
That's why I opened this topic...
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 12:54 PM |
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Djinns should attack because option:
a) use spells to cast something random and then die.
is not as good as option:
b) use luck and initiative atries to attack doing good damage and then just die. With a lucky strike they may not suffer from retaliation a lot. Generally, attack but if they suffered a lot of losses us them to cast spells.
Assuming it's best to use a wizard in final battle djinns are almost always the most damaging troop Academy has. Wizard's attack is just bad so djinns will do best when they will attack enemy's high tier troops. It is because reduction from attack and defense difference is NOT linear so the best thing to do is to attack the strongest units. It's especially effective when the D-A > 20. I mean
D-A = 20 means 50% damage reduction,
D-A = 30 means 60% damage reduction,
D-A = 40 means 66% damage reduction..
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 22, 2007 01:10 PM |
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Quote:
Assuming it's best to use a wizard in final battle djinns are almost always the most damaging troop Academy has. Wizard's attack is just bad so djinns will do best when they will attack enemy's high tier troops. It is because reduction from attack and defense difference is NOT linear so the best thing to do is to attack the strongest units. It's especially effective when the D-A > 20. I mean
D-A = 20 means 50% damage reduction,
D-A = 30 means 60% damage reduction,
D-A = 40 means 66% damage reduction..
No, they won't do "best" at all.
Consider a 50% reduction. If your creature does 1 damage instead of 2, then that means it has half damage, it will kill the enemy twice as hard. If it were linear, then instead of doing double damage when attack > 20, then you would be immune to the enemy (100% damage reduction). No, it should cancel out with attack.
Damage * 2 / 2 = Original damage
Of course 1 point difference of damage is nothing when you consider destructive spells or hero's attack, right? But then, it's better if the Djinn attacks "low-level" creatures to get a bonus to it's damage (higher attack than target's defense), and the hero's destructive spells or normal attack ignore defense anyway.
So it's better to attack low level creatures.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 01:12 PM |
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Quote:
The Djins die however you use them... so initiative mini , luck , attack and charge ! Try to hit an important stack, that dies more than 50% from your hit.
I think this is the best strategy in endgame. Splitting may be a good in quick game.
Quote:
So it's better to attack low level creatures.
Its always better to attack lower lvl. Its just that sometimes its better to attack tougher but more important from tactical point of view stack.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted April 22, 2007 01:18 PM |
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Djinns are tricky to play with. But they can't have more survivability because they deal high damage and have good initiative. On one side you have 'fragile' but fast and good damage dealers (which seems you don't like), on the other side you have tanky units which seem too slow and again you don't like. The only option is something between, though not all units can be like that because it would become boring
I agree, splitting Djinns may let you cast much more spells during combat although they use a slot for this and thus it's best to use this strategy in small fights.
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betruger
Known Hero
empowered mind
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posted April 22, 2007 01:21 PM |
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I use djinns in endgame only, as kamikadze.
I boost them with attack and luck artifacts (initative if neccesary too, or speed if i have enough resources).
The damage they do is huge.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 22, 2007 01:24 PM |
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Phantom Forces on Djinn with high-level Wizard
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted April 22, 2007 01:25 PM |
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If I remember right, with a level 20 wizard the phantoms have a starting ATB of 0.9 (0.1 + 0.04 per level)
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betruger
Known Hero
empowered mind
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posted April 22, 2007 01:28 PM |
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Edited by betruger at 13:29, 22 Apr 2007.
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yeah, except that when it's wizard's turn the djinns are already long gone
Besides, phantomed creatures don't preserve the miniartifact effects.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 22, 2007 01:30 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 13:30, 22 Apr 2007.
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Not necessarily long gone. Probably only against Dungeon's Blood Furies.
Apart from that, all shooters are equally or slower than Djinns or the Hero.. And most creatures don't reach in 1st turn.
Also it's nice to have Tactics to protect them. The only problem is, it's a very rare skill for Wizards
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 01:37 PM |
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I meant 2.5% not 5%..
damage / damage*.. reduction:
D-A = 20 means 50% damage reduction,
D-A = 30 means 60% damage reduction,
D-A = 40 means 66% damage reduction
is better than 2.5% reduction:
D-A = 20 means 50% damage reduction,
D-A = 30 means 75% damage reduction,
D-A = 40 means 100% damage reduction
The 1st model is "better" for creatures with poor attack attacking a creature with huge defense when D-A > 20. Of course, in the 2nd soulution damage shoud be capped somewhere before D-A = 40.
The 1st model is applied in H5 and that's why it's good to attack the most threatening units with Djinns(HUGE base damage but so-so attack)
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 22, 2007 01:47 PM |
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Let's suppose your Djinns do 50 damage.
Now let's suppose the target has a lot of defense (66% reduction), so they will do around 17 damage. 66% reduction means the enemy will die around 3 times as harder (compare that to 300% damage bonus which is aproximately the same bonus as the 66% reduction!).
If you attack low level creatures so as to get, let's say, double damage, your Djinn will thus do 100 damage, right? This means you will kill the enemy stack twice as fast.
The difference between 100 and 50 is "50" while the difference between 50 and 17 is only "33". Even though the latter one has a higher bonus. And yes it is fair. Djinns with 17 damage will kill the enemy three times as hard. Djinns with 100 damage will kill the enemy twice as fast. The former one here, as it can be seen, is better since they will need 3 times as much damage rather than 2 times as less damage (if it would have been 3 as well in the second one, it would be equally).
This fact is also suggested by hero's spells which ignore defense -- it's better to get "extra" damage with Djinns on low level creatures. The spells will always do the same damage no matter what (except for resistant creatures). So while your Djinn does 100 damage to low levels, your spells will do let's say 300 damage for high levels.
If you targeted high levels, you would do 17 damage with Djinns and 300 with spells (probably on low levels). The total damage is less because spells ignore defense.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 01:51 PM |
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Quote:
The damage they do is huge.
Yeah ive seen it. They do a carnage.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 02:03 PM |
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Yes, but you STILL have to attack something. Low tiers are no threat compared to high tiers. It's just better to attack high tiers anyway. You just can't let emeralds/paladins/magmas/blacks/nightmares/archdevils/.. act too much.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 22, 2007 02:23 PM |
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There are too options for me the endgame and midgame ones. In midgame you may or not have mini arties so I'll skip that part. Just about week 4-5 you upg the djinns(boosted by the horde dwelling) and go straight to your opponent. Strangely at this time if you have no casualties they are pretty effective attackers and don't die as easy-because the enemy won't have tough units with speed 8 most of the time. They are hard hitters and don't die as they would in endgame. If you have arties AND consume artifact you'll have a great time 
In endgame it depends on how you wish to use them. The melee way you should neverget attack without initiative as they'll die before using the attack. Or you could get defense and luck so that they'll resist some damage and you'll depend on their luck to still do good damage. If the opponent can't reach them then you can try motw+arcane armour to them and rakshasas as it boosts their survivability amazingly! IF you judge that you won't get hit by then. In any case you can just give them defense and use them as casters, a successful adv slow on a key unit can be just as effective sometimes.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 02:32 PM |
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I think we should leave the decisive vote to GenieLord.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 22, 2007 02:37 PM |
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Yeah he should know best!
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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