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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Spell Availability - A Comparison
Thread: Spell Availability - A Comparison [ This thread is 4 pages long: 1 (2) 3 4 ]
Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 09, 2007 11:00 AM

Thoughtful post. I suppose it's exactly because of that potential in earlygame that I enjoy summoning, necropolis and academy can do miracles with it. Too much mana requirements for others to use...
Dungeon although it can use them it does not really need them early on. Furies can kill the tanks and fragile melee units, while destructive and scouts can take care of the shooters.
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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted August 10, 2007 08:22 AM

For a might hero the worst disaster can happen in guild lvl 1 - no haste and lvl 2 - no cleansing. Other light spells are not so importnant.
For a magic hero the worst disaster can happen in guild lvl 5 - no phoenix, no puppet, no resurrection, no implo/no arma(bad for a warlock/bad for a wizard)
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ismail222
ismail222


Known Hero
The Cataclysm
posted August 10, 2007 02:37 PM

Quote:

For a magic hero the worst disaster can happen in guild lvl 5 - no phoenix, no puppet, no resurrection, no implo/no arma(bad for a warlock/bad for a wizard)


that means he'll just get word of light and curse of the netherworld/arcane armor xD that's a very low chance
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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 10, 2007 02:40 PM

Actually the best thing about summoning magic is that you always get decent lvl 5 spell.

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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted August 10, 2007 04:04 PM

Quote:
that means he'll just get word of light and curse of the netherworld/arcane armor xD that's a very low chance

Well excluding academy, 25% So it's 25% chance to "waste" 5 of each precious resource.
Quote:
Actually the best thing about summoning magic is that you always get decent lvl 5 spell.

Yes, but still phoenix >>> arcane armor. What's funny is that it's always good to have both of them because phoenix + arcane armor + raise dead can be pretty sick..
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Moonlith
Moonlith


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted August 11, 2007 01:54 AM

Quote:
Sadly, Nival have refuced to make traditional Haste and Slow spells that affect speed. Their argument is that it would render a Zombie useless if you reduced his speed. I would like to make them explain what use I have of the Zombie with reduced Initiative ...


I would like to have explained what use I have of the Zombie in general?

But I agree, H5 definately (and sadly) misses speed increasing / reducing spells... We can only pray they will add it.


Evlin: Nice thread! I just noticed Fireball has the exact same damage as Lightning bolt, and the same goes for Circle of Winter and Ice bolt, the only difference being the level 3 ones affect an area.

Chain Lightning... I used to like it in H3, but given each chain reduces in damage, I really prefer Meteor Shower every time. I really feel broken whenever I play a Warlock and get CL in level 4... Meteor Shower is a must for them. (For some awkward reason ever since Heroes 3 I've felt the two spells that represent a Warlock are Meteor Shower and Resurection, how weird is that?)

Other than that I rather like the spells and the magic schools they made for H5 Although Resurection doesn't usually seem very usefull... And I hate the HP reduction for both raise dead and Resurection.

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ismail222
ismail222


Known Hero
The Cataclysm
posted August 11, 2007 03:16 AM

resurection is so pathetic u keep resurecting the unit's health keep decreasing and every attack is more affecting and u can only resurect a specific number of creatures for instance if i resurect 5 hydras i keep resurecting 5 hydras if their hp reached 1hp and every1 deals higher dmg on them which is so pathetic,idiotic and a huge slap in the face
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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 11, 2007 08:19 AM

Yes...Only the wizards could possibly abuse this with motw and their almost limitless mana but heck, most factions take the first hit against them and if they try to start resurrecting they are in for some more pain. Raise dead is fair but resurrection is lvl 5..
Even if we have some pathetic ones like word of light and curse of netherworld.
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alcibiades Online
alcibiades

Hero of Order
and Light
posted August 11, 2007 09:20 AM

I think actually that one of the problems with Resurrection is that it raises too few Hit Points. Try to look at this:

Heroes 3 Resurrection: 50 x Power + 160
Heroes 5 Resurrection: 30 x Power + 240

A late game Wizard, Knight or Ranged will rarely get Spell Powers much over 20, which will allow them to Resurrect in the order of 900 HP. That will be enough to raise roughly 4 level 7 units, which is not a lot in late game. When you can no longer spam the spell, that seriously reduces its useability.

I understand why they wanted to introduce the HP reducing element, and even agree to it to some extent. But I think when they did so, changing the spell to one you only use once or twice on a unit, they should have increased the potency on each casting.
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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 11, 2007 09:31 AM

I think they didnt want to dominate the game with the spell.  Was it twice as effective it could be worth casting it only, not some other spells. This gives you more diversified game. Remember Raise dead before changes? You didnt need to cast anything else. (hp healed was the same but overall armies were lower so the potency of raise dead was higher)

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alcibiades Online
alcibiades

Hero of Order
and Light
posted August 11, 2007 09:45 AM

Well, they could still go for 40 x Power, which would match the output of an unmodified Implosion. Of course, it's a fine balance to walk.
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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 11, 2007 10:16 AM

I have felt that resurrection was a bit weak as well. As it is it's more for helping with creature casualties against neutrals not enemy heroes unless it's still relatively early.
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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted August 11, 2007 10:35 AM

Yeah, it's funny that we were given some puny, almost creeping only underpowered resurrection. But then, I guess to compensate for that, we were given completly overpowered rune of resurrection. How cool..
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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 11, 2007 10:47 AM

Dwarves can have both Seriously though it's rare to be overpowered by that as runic guild takes much money and the resources for the guild are better spent on dwellings seeing as the runemage's magic stats are not exceptional. There is still the chance they will get a mage vault and build runic guild 2 by midgame and watching these working together is sweet!
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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted August 11, 2007 10:51 AM

well, yea, rez sucks in h5 somehow.

Although with Motw, going for double power ressurection on titans with 20 sp is extremely effective.

The balance is hard to attain with so many faction-exclusives that double or triple certain spells' power.

I'd rather see weak rez for all rest of the factions than strong rez and unkillable titans.

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 11, 2007 11:08 AM

Uhh I don't see 20 spellpower with wizards often. The map must be at least large and with good artifacts.
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sdfx
sdfx


Famous Hero
posted August 11, 2007 11:35 AM

Or messed up lvl ups.. Look at a warlock who, for some reason, just LOVES getting more attack than spellpower
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ismail222
ismail222


Known Hero
The Cataclysm
posted August 11, 2007 11:56 AM
Edited by ismail222 at 11:58, 11 Aug 2007.

Quote:
Or messed up lvl ups.. Look at a warlock who, for some reason, just LOVES getting more attack than spellpower



yea that really sucks,warlocks (sinitar espically) keeps getting attack and attack and attack with the frikin *1 hit die* units except the hydra which is why it's my favourite ,if a warlock is gonna get something other than spellpower it should be defense/knowledge since their deff SUCKS but knowledge gets fixed at late game or with ring of sar issus (rare and costy to get tho )
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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted August 11, 2007 12:07 PM

Mana is ok because you can get arcane training, intelligence, secrets of destruction plus there's the +1 knowledge building. Btw better to get mage guild 2 before secrets of destruction if you can help it - improves a lot your chances for a good spell
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alcibiades Online
alcibiades

Hero of Order
and Light
posted August 11, 2007 12:32 PM

Quote:
well, yea, rez sucks in h5 somehow.

Although with Motw, going for double power ressurection on titans with 20 sp is extremely effective.

The balance is hard to attain with so many faction-exclusives that double or triple certain spells' power.

I'd rather see weak rez for all rest of the factions than strong rez and unkillable titans.


I kind of agree with this, but I think the 10 % HP reduction will serve as an effective means of blocking MOTW Double Resurrection abuse. I don't think increasing the spell a bit would throw this completely over board.
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