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| Thread: USA and Iran |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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baklava
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posted October 20, 2007 03:08 PM |
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USA and Iran
All I've been hearing about that lately were US and Iran generals saying how "we have the resources to attack on them", "if they attack us we will send several thousands of missiles at them", there's even babbling about a 3rd world war (of course each side says that the other side is gonna start it). Diplomacy, at least from this angle, seems almost completely non existent between them - only random threatening, which is sort of weird in the 21st century. USA got all... crusadeish lately, and that Ahmadinejad guy seems, well, insane, and a lot of stuff points that there might be an armed duel between them.
On the other hand, I think that the American people have had more than enough shooting in some deserts on the other side of the planet lately; and besides, it would eventually be suicidal for Iran to go to war with the USA.
So, what do you think, will there be a serious conflict here or not?
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Lord_Woock
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posted October 20, 2007 03:14 PM |
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I say pit the leaders in a vat of pudding and let them slug it out.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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roy-algriffin
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posted October 20, 2007 04:20 PM |
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Quote:
I say pit the leaders in a vat of pudding and let them slug it out.
If they stop suicide bombing isreal after that im all for it
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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TnT_Addict
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posted October 20, 2007 04:33 PM |
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Quote:
If they stop suicide bombing isreal
When did they do it? 
How would any of you guys in other countries feel if some 5 feet tall bearded insane leprechaun each and every single day threatened to atom bomb you? 
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click and help me out!! Thanks!!
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MightyMage
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posted October 20, 2007 05:05 PM |
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Generally I keep up to date with world affairs because I tend to watch the news quite a bit...that and someone has to keep an eye on the US Vice President. He's evil.
Anyway my point is, a few months back the Iranian president appeared in front of the U.N. demanding that US troops leave his country. I don't remember the entire speech but I do recall him saying that he's nothing like Saddam Hussein and that he was just an elected official. Unfortunately I don't know enough about Iran's political system to understand what he means by elected official. There are plenty of "presidents" out there who have been "elected" due to the fact that they've eliminated their opponents and threatened their people. Is this the case with Iran?
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Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage. For he is all I could ever
want to be! - OhforfSake
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roy-algriffin
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posted October 20, 2007 06:10 PM |
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Most likely only partially if at all. I think theyre just not used to the idea that its possible to have a president who doesnt go around threatening everyone.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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baklava
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posted October 20, 2007 11:50 PM |
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Quote:
I think theyre just not used to the idea that its possible to have a president who doesnt go around threatening everyone.
Which opens up a new question.
Is it better to have a politician that threatens or one that makes false and empty promises?
Cause 90% of politicians today belong to one of those two types. The 10 remaining percent is dead and/or forgotten.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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MightyMage
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posted October 21, 2007 07:04 AM |
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There was a comedian once who said the best idea America can come up with at this point is to elect a new president. Not just any president though. No Republicans or Democrats. What we need is a dead president. Why? Because we would all feel a lot better about things when they went wrong. Take Hurricane Katrina for example. I'm betting all those people sitting up on their roofs while their cars, belongings, and children floated away would have felt better having a dead president rather then a living president who does nothing.
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Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage. For he is all I could ever
want to be! - OhforfSake
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roy-algriffin
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posted October 21, 2007 08:33 AM |
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Or they will think everyone else has gone insane and it was a bad idea.
Think if you were in a hurriciane and your president was dead would your first thought be" Well great its a dead president! hurrah its better then one thats alive" or "Oh no were all going to die! why isnt the goverment helping us"
personally id be much happier with a president thats alive and does nothing then a dead one who does nothing. At least you can vent your anger on one thats alive.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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baklava
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posted October 21, 2007 01:02 PM |
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How about a dead president who is doing something?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Mytical
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posted October 21, 2007 01:20 PM |
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Honestly I am all for the "Pull out and let the world handle it's own messes" strategy. But if America does that.. "America is selfish! They think only of themselves!"
Of course if we stay "America is being bullies! They think they should run the world!" Wonderful mess our dear president has gotten us into. All to make a buck. (Yes, you heard right). See old Bushy boy and his family owns oil wells, companies, ect. Think he hasn't made a buck (or a couple billion?) off this mess?
Before the 'surge' there were reports America was spending a million a day on the war. Now I don't even want to know. Bring them back, put them to work reinforcing New Orleans or whatever. Put all that money into researching alternate fuel sources, and kick back and relax  . Everybody wants us out, lets get out..totally. Besides diplomats that is. All our troops everywhere if not directly guarding a diplomat, back home. Give em what they want.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted October 21, 2007 01:25 PM |
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I don't rap for dead presidents
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MightyMage
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posted October 24, 2007 07:01 AM |
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We need to re-elect Ronald Reagan. He scared the crap out of people when he was alive. Just imagine how freaked out people would be now that he's kicked the can. No one would mess with America then.
Just imagine it, Inauguration Day. We wheel out the coffin and prop up the new president. Then everyone sits in silence as President Reagan begins his inaugural speech. There is nothing but silence. Every once in a while someone stands up and claps and yells out proudly, "He's great! Isn't he great?"
Next we send a video to every country in the world. One of two things will occur. They will either bomb us out of sympathy for our mental condition or they will completely ignore us possibly going so far as erasing the United States off of the map.
I figure this is the best way to deal with any terrorist threat because most of the "terrorists" are really religious extremists who believe they are right and everyone else is wrong. Essentially they are crazy. The only thing that would frighten them is seeing a psychosis that is worse then their own.
Anyway, I've delved off into the topics of other threads so I'll try to bring this back on track. I've told you all before that I work with a wide variety of people from all over. One guy I work with is named Salamon. He's from Iraq.
I was talking to him today about a video they played on Saturday Night Live. It was basically making fun of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad saying he was gay or something to that extent. It's called Iran So Far
Now generally he would laugh about something like this. As unusual as it sounds he actually pokes fun at the entire Middle East quite often. He's proud to be from Iraq but he has no problem cracking jokes about it. He actually came back from a trip a few months back and I asked him how it was. He responded saying that it was hot as hell and every day he had sand in his ass. So anyway, when I told him about this video he seemed to take offence. He asked why anyone would make a joke like that. He was defending the Iranian president for reasons I can't figure. Now I have nothing against the guy because I don't know if he's really as bad as our government says he is. I don't know him.
So Salamon told me that Iraq was never the real goal. He said the rumor about getting to the oil there is half true since getting oil in Iraq is so easy with the flat ground. He said the other half was gaining control over the country itself by using a government they controlled. He said that if you look into the recent history of America you'll see there has been a grudge against Iran for some time. We sided with Saddam and supported him in his war against Iran. He said that the country used to be quite large when it was dominated by the Persians but in recent years has dwindled and America has always been afraid that it would grow to power once again and that's why it seems like we're always after them.
Once again I don't know how true any of this is since it's Salamon's personal opinion but to me it sounds like what was started back with Bush senior was never really finished. If the ultimate goal was Iran then to me it sounds like we sounds like we used Iraq but had to stop when Saddam lost his freakin mind. We got sidetracked trying to get Iraq back under control and now we're trying to get our focus back on Iran again.
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Though I must still bow
in awe for the awesomeness that is
MightyMage. For he is all I could ever
want to be! - OhforfSake
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Mytical
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posted October 24, 2007 07:26 AM |
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Or we could just fit the congress and senate hall with 2 buttons, one yes one no, and then hire all chimps. Would be about as sane as what we currently have. The war isn't about terrorist, it isn't even totally about oil (though about 90% of it is, including money in that precentage), it's a distraction.
I won't go into exactly what it's distracting us from, or who I think is actually behind it, because I am one of those crazy conspericy theorist. What I will say, however, is that it doesn't matter. Whatever America does will be looked at negatively. Danged if we do, danged if we don't. While mostly the average american is a friendly, intelligent, and helpful person that is not what most of the world sees.
Ok, ok, enough of the soapbox. Sometimes I get a little irked and have to rant a bit. Am done now. The pacifist in me says, bring our men and women home and worry about making things better here. 
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Message received.
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roy-algriffin
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posted October 24, 2007 07:54 AM |
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Question is if you want to actualy be selfish and stay at home or "Opress" iraq. Well frankly probably not a good idea for me to state my opinion as im biased. But i guess a good idea would be just to do what you consider right. Not just good for yourselves hopefully.Since as you said, Your pretty much screwed as far as reputation goes either way.
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Binabik
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posted October 24, 2007 08:06 AM |
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You know, just once I'd like for the people who say the war in Iraq is about oil to explain just how this works. They claim the US is there because of oil. Or they claim that Bush or the US benefits from Iraqi oil by starting a war. But "claims" are the only thing I've heard.
I've heard the oil mantra over and over, but never a single bit of legitimate evidence that it's true. I've never heard a single bit of legitimate logic that indicates it's true. And I've never heard even the slightest economic argument that it's true. I've even heard people claim that anyone who doesn't see that the US and/or Bush is there for oil is an idiot. Well I guess I'm an idiot, because as far as I'm concerned, this idea of being there for oil is total bull****.
So can someone please explain to me just how this works. Thank you.
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Mytical
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posted October 24, 2007 08:28 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 08:57, 24 Oct 2007.
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Well, I will sure try. The Bush family has oil wells and oil companies. They own large shares of stocks in oil. Now, with the war there has been 'shortages' of oil. That means that crude sold for more, got processed at the same cost, then got sold for more profit. Which means record profits (in 3 months oil companies made 13 Billion dollars profit that is with a B, not an M).
Follow the money. Our lovely president's family sells the oil from the wells they own to companies they either outright own, or have stock in. They sell it for more, because of shortages caused by the war. Now those companies process it at the same cost as they always had. Normally they would make x ammount of profit. Instead they mark up the price to cover how much extra they paid, plus a bit more (again because of shortage, basic supply and demand. Supply is down, demand is up, more profit per to be had).
That company (the processing company) sells it to gas stations. These gas stations are usually owned by companies that process the oil, but not all (some are individually owned). So those that have the oil make money the following way.
Once when they sell the crude, from profit or dividends(from stocks) when the company they sold it to when that company sells it to the stations, and once from the profit or stock dividends from the stations when they sell it to the individuals. Sure, they may only make 10-20% more profit then normal (being generous here, probably more like 50%) but that adds up pretty quick when you are talking millions a year (just for the Bush family).
For instance, Oil jumped from about 55 dollars a barrel to 75. That is 20 just for the crude part of it per barrel. Multiply that by say 1000000 barrels..and that is a lot of money (a million barrells a year is not difficult to imagine). That is not including dividends, and/or other ways though could make money from this.
As for the matter of benifitting/profitting off of the oil there. It's more a matter of our addiction to oil and the need to keep it pumping. So, economics wise it is absolutely essential for America (one of (if not the) largest consumer of oil) to make sure that it keeps flowing and keep pressure on one of the largest suppliers so that they 'have' to sell it and preferrably to us. Again tho, I am just a looney conspiricy theorist. And the poster child for chaos
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Binabik
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posted October 24, 2007 08:59 AM |
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OK, first of all, the increase in crude oil prices was an unintended side affect. When the US first went into Iraq all the "we're there for oil" crowd was talking about how the US/Bush was there to TAKE the oil, not decrease supplies. Second, Iraqi oil is pretty insignificant as a supplier of US oil.
But I'll ignore that for now, because what I'd REALLY like to know is which of the following is oil profits from the war in Iraq.
From Bush's 2006 schedule B (and 2005 is similar)
Interest
JP Morgan $25
Wells Fargo Back $35
From K1 - The Lone Star Trust $275,693
From K1 - GWB Rangers Corp $6000
From K1 - Northern Trust Co as Trustee $3856
From K1 Henry G. Freeman Jr Trust $125
Dividends
From K1 - The Lone Star Trust $11,600
From K1 - GWB Rangers Corp $509
From K1 - Northern Trust Co as Trustee $14,217
From K1 Henry G. Freeman Jr Trust $11,875
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Mytical
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posted October 24, 2007 09:11 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 09:13, 24 Oct 2007.
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If it is so insignificant, then tell me why it is used as a 'excuse' (ammong others admittedly) as to why there was a shortage? Ignoring that..
Now I only understand basic Tax laws, and only worked one year as a temp for H & R block, so my knowledge is very limited. However, there are ways to protect income from even being considered in a tax form (legally). Profits can be rolled back into a company (thus it is no longer 'technically' a profit), there are IRAs, and other loopholes.
Pull up Bill Gates tax files. Even if he only recieved interest from his money, his tax would be enormous. You'll probably be suprised at what you see. That is why they hire fancy tax lawyers . Our current tax laws are broke.
Not to mention that he doesn't directly have to get the money. Remember it could easily go to family members. He would then recieve it indirectly and off the record. Much like the bribes he most likely takes from special interest groups.
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Binabik
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posted October 24, 2007 09:17 AM |
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So show me the evidence. That's what I asked for in the first place. You are just making more claims. Say something to back it up. As I already said, I've never seen a single bit of evidence, let alone proof. Where is it?
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