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| Thread: Censorship - No thanks |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 06, 2007 03:41 PM |
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Edited by pandora at 22:51, 07 May 2009.
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Censorship - No thanks
What the hell is the meaning of rule 2) in the CODE OF CONDUCT: NO bad language, profanity, vulgarity or swearing.?
Why limit peoples possibility to express themselves as they want?
I could understand it if these words were used to insult others but that problem is allready taken care of in COC 1).
Wait a minute, the rule dosent limit the use of these words. The title of the rule is totally misleading. The thing is, these censored words are allowed for non-insulting purposes. This means that COC 2) only has one meaning: If you wanna write **** you have to write ****. How stupid is that? Suddenly the language is turned into a guessing competition. Whats so terrible about looking at these words? Because the only effect this has, is that you wont have to look at the word, you will read it anyway provided that you can guess what the author wanted to write. The absurdity is complete because of the fact that if you "forget" to write the ****s, the cencored word will automatically be replaced by ***s.
I believe that is rule is the result of some misunderstanded political correctness originated in the USA. The rule dosent make sense, its stupid and should be removed.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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skullman
Famous Hero
banned
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posted November 06, 2007 03:44 PM |
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Edited by skullman at 15:45, 06 Nov 2007.
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hey if you want too swear online join another community and stop wasting your time here
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Guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted November 06, 2007 04:57 PM |
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There are people who find swearing offensive or disrespectful. For those who use such language liberally on a daily basis, however, it might not seem like a big deal. This'll boil down to a debate about whether or not swearing is decent in public places like this, and you know how those turn out.
I don't think HC was intended for completely uncensored expression. Since younger members may be reading this site, they're exposed to whatever we type, be it positive or negative. Maybe I'm being conservative here, but you know how impressionable kids can be. Imagine the result of various forms of profanity entering their daily vocabulary. I've heard some really young kids spewing a parade of FLWs and it's rather pathetic. And in response to the popular counterargument ("well, you can't protect their ears and eyes forever"), that's true to a point. But shouldn't people do what they can? I know a lot of people don't care.
I agree that the implicit nature of the "dots" is rather telling in most cases. Still, the admin could've just forbidden the dots as well, if he felt it appropriate.
And if you don't mind me saying so, Maretti, you've done well without swearing so far.
-Guitarguy
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted November 06, 2007 05:21 PM |
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I suppose this rule is quite useful, we had some kids just running around and swearing in most of the posts they wrote and I must say it's really annoying when you want to read a thread, and come upon those replies, they somehow spoil a reading atmosphere.
The rules do not allow swearing, but there are sometimes when this rule is overlooked when a person just wants to strongly express himself. I personaly tend not to make a huge problem out of it (unless somebody is offended by that type of posting), yet when you see curses in almost every sentence and every post, it's quite past the decency line and I think then rules must be enforced.
The rules did not originate in USA as I believe Valeriy had made them some time ago, and each revision they were left as needed.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted November 06, 2007 05:40 PM |
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Edited by Consis at 17:42, 06 Nov 2007.
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Rule Of Smurf
I think it has more to do with a limited vocabulary. Using profanity is extremely redundant. I think it can be compared to a broken record that skips every two seconds. You'll hear basic or single words repeated again and again. This makes for an extremely difficult message. Here in this place where the words you use can be equated to 90% of your form of communication, then it's important to ask for those words to not be too difficult to understand.
The rule of smurf is one that illustrates how those magical woodland creatures of immeasurably cute size would communicate with each other. The word "smurf" was used in place of any and every adjective and noun at random. For example:
1. "Smurf me a glass of water"
2. "Give me a smurf"
3. "Don't smurf unless asked"
Such a singular use of the exact same word fails to adequately communicate to the receiver as to what you are referring to exactly.
The same can be said of any redundant expletive. For example:
1. "My effin loser girlfriend effin suckz!"
2. "Don't effin tell me what to effin do!"
3. "Get the eff away from me you effin nutcase!"
To the user this is an attempt to communicate a degree of emotion out of some unbroken bad habit of emotional expression. But I believe to "Eff" something or to be "Effed" fails to describe a more colorful description of how the deliverer is truly feeling. It seems more a show of a lack of an ability to communicate which in turn fails to the act of expression. People who claim using expletives is a form of 'freedom of expression' might have a more powerful argument in the real world setting where typed words are not 90% of your form of communication. In the real world, in person, many things can be attributed to communicating with each other: Body language, voice tone, cadence, locational circumstances, and history. In such a setting it could be very easily argued that inhibiting a word need not apply but here in this place inhibiting a word is a direct clear request from the site owner to ask his/her members to try and use as many different words as you can to communicate your emotional expression, character, current attitude, etcetera.
The rule of Smurf need only apply to a medium of communication that is extremely specific in which completely removes all other forms of communication.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 06, 2007 05:53 PM |
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I might be wrong here but the rule says: "Censored vulgar words may be implied, but only for non-insulting purposes." Dosent this mean they are allowed as long as you use ****s?
I agree that its annoying if people swear all the time with no reson but if im excited about something and wanna express myself with the language I would normally use, im not allowed to do that, even though its part of what I would call normal language. I dont find this censorship reasonable but I guess it takes the top of peoples desire to swear when they have to use ****s.
This rule might make life easier for the mods but in principle it should be allowed to use common daily language. If some people uses curses in almost every sentence and every post and it's past the decency line the mods could hand out some warnings or penalties.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted November 06, 2007 07:09 PM |
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Well, these rules are here to make the place pleasant to be in.  Many people wouldn't want to be in a place where people curse all the time. It's just a matter of basic respect. These things often offend people, as well. Avoiding that is probably the best. The atmosphere is better without it, and there are less fight and arguments because of people's way of expression.
If the first thing I had seen as a new member is many swears in all over the forum, I wouldn't have stayed here for long. I wouldn't have felt comfortable with that.
I don't think that "censorship" is the right word for that. We are not censored, we just keep on a nice atmosphere in the forum and avoid from offending people. Look at that on this way.
It's just a matter of attitude actually. The way you look at it. Nobody is telling you not to swear on the real life, and you can speak however you want, but please respect the forum.
Quote:
This rule might make life easier for the mods but in principle it should be allowed to use common daily language. If some people uses curses in almost every sentence and every post and it's past the decency line the mods could hand out some warnings or penalties.
That's a rule. If you're willing to endure the results, you may do it. If you want to curse, be prepared to the fact that you might get penalties, to be silence or banned. I just don't think it's worth it. It's easy to avoid swearing, then why not?
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted November 06, 2007 09:19 PM |
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I wouldn't mind being people saying swear words in their posts, only if they was expressing a view on something that they felt strongly about.
I would mind if they used swearing in their posts every single sentence, or that they used it to insult somebody, that would be crossing the line.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted November 06, 2007 09:24 PM |
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Quote:
I might be wrong here but the rule says: "Censored vulgar words may be implied, but only for non-insulting purposes." Dosent this mean they are allowed as long as you use ****s?
This actually falls into the general rule that you're not to insult other members period. Calling someone an idiot - or a {bleeping} idiot, really doesn't matter as such, either way you violate the CoC. It might seem to some that it needn't be said, but more often than not things tend to need to be spelled out very clearly to avoid members trying to use the CoC to avoid a penalty.
So what that means is that if you say you're sick of hearing people ***** and moan about something would be acceptable, but saying that another member was a stupid ***** would not be.
I can certainly understand the point you make about it being 'normal language' and moderators will usually take that into account and give warnings rather than penalties in such cases. What you need to consider is that normal language for you, may not be normal for some.
At HC we have a lot of young members, and their parents might not appreciate their children reading posts containing a lot of needless profanity.
The main issue, in my opinion is that if we allow any sort of grey area on the ruling - what will happen is that people will abuse it.
If we had an adults only forum, my personal feeling is that the language ruling wouldn't need to be as severe - but since we do not, we have to be mindful of young ears eyes.
In any case, if you find yourself slipping and typing something in excitement that you probably shouldn't have, you would be very unlikely to receive a penalty for it - the moderator who caught it would usually just HCM you. In the case that you did receive a penalty that you felt was unfair - you're always more than welcome to message any of us to discuss that as well.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted November 06, 2007 09:59 PM |
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I don't call limiting language censorship. Limiting the expression of ideas is censorship.
Acceptable language depends on the culture and the people you are around. When I was a carpenter I cussed a *LOT*. Like I was one of those people who used the F-word as an adjective preceding every noun. In other words, I often used it several times per sentence. But that was just when I was at work with a bunch of other guys who did the same thing. When I left the job site and returned to a more "polite" society, I had to turn it off and try to talk more civil.
It wasn't always easy to clean up my language but I tried, especially around kids. There is some language that should be limited around kids, there are subjects you shouldn't talk about around kids, and IMO people shouldn't drink or smoke around kids. It's called setting a good example.
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted November 07, 2007 12:13 AM |
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Maybe its just me but i feel its kind of offensive. Even if used to express something strongly theres really only slightly harder ways that are better. Its honestly not worth the bother of reading a post that has more then a single swearword in it in my opinion. Even in a super-long post i think two swearwords would make me skip over it.
I dont mean its personally offensive or some such. But its really annoying in general.
its a bit like using a single car. One car is fine. but millions of cars every day and for nearly everything and polloution levels start getting dangerous. Better to have found a better soloution in the first place.Or to switch to something better.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 07, 2007 12:43 AM |
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Preventing people from writing what they want is censorship in its purest form. This converting of letters with *s is censorship. No doubt about that. You might feel its a good thing but that dosent change what it is.
This rule actually works the same way as the "bleep" on (especially american) television. Dosent those bleeps annoy any of you?
Ofcourse its good to set a good example for the youth and all that but dont they meet these words all the time in RL anyway? Does it really make that big a diffrence?
I dont find this rule a huge problem in practice but I find the principle in it very disturbing. I believe that people should be allowed to say what they want but they should also be prepared to take the consequenses afterwards. This principle is so important that it is found in most constitutions. If you dont use appropriate language it will fall back on yourself when people read your posts and HC could still have rules that banned unacceptable language.
Another thing is I dont get why you are forced to write the *s yourself when its done automatically anyway.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted November 07, 2007 01:08 AM |
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Quote:
but dont they meet these words all the time in RL anyway? Does it really make that big a diffrence?
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No with an unless or yes with a maybe.
No, Not unless everyone stops
Yes. Because maybe if they feel its a minority that does it they wont do it themselves. Besides that you have to stop somewhere. Otherwise wed all be killing each other "because thats what sometimes happens anyway"
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted November 07, 2007 01:11 AM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 01:14, 07 Nov 2007.
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Quote:
Preventing people from writing what they want is censorship in its purest form. This converting of letters with *s is censorship. No doubt about that. You might feel its a good thing but that dosent change what it is.
Of course it is censorship.
However, this is the one time I'm OK with it.
There are public places where you are expected not to swear and HC is simply one of them.
It doesn't bother me because the mods (especially the current roster) are lenient about it; unless it's a direct insult to another member, you will not be penalized (heck, some posts containing the f-word even got a quality point).Quote:
This rule actually works the same way as the "bleep" on (especially american) television. Dosent those bleeps annoy any of you?
Ofcourse its good to set a good example for the youth and all that but dont they meet these words all the time in RL anyway? Does it really make that big a diffrence?
While I agree with you in every way that matters, forget the television analogy and think of, say, schools. Lots of children around.  Quote:
Another thing is I dont get why you are forced to write the *s yourself when its done automatically anyway.
Because you can still see the f-word when you quote the post with one.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 07, 2007 01:49 AM |
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There are two parts of this discussion:
1. Censorship. I dont like it at all. But if replacing it with a rule about what is acceptable language will make life to difficult for the mods, thats another story.
2. What language should be allowed on HC? As it is now bad language is actually allowed as long as you use *s and its for non-insulting purposes. Some limits would be ok imo but I believe that some swearing should be allowed in rare ocations where it would be what I would call "normal language".
Another thing is, does these ***s or bleeps actually work? Lets say Jon Stewart at the oscars was swearing like hell and you could actually guess allmost everything he was saying despite the bleeps. How would that influence the youth?
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted November 07, 2007 02:17 AM |
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Edited by Consis at 02:19, 07 Nov 2007.
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What?
I type an entirely thoughtful post about the rule of smurf and nobody even mentions me??? I get no credit for contributing? Dude that's effin nutz. WTF?! How ridiculous iz that? Aw man c'mon this thread is a joke! DUDE MY POST RULEZ AND YOO ALL OWE ME SOME ATTENTION!
Posts such as this are by and large counterproductive. Although I was only 'expressing' myself it was not a good basis for argument or debate. It only showed how selfish the poster is. I agree with Vlaad. Children are a welcome member here. Shall we teach them to build a habit that limits their capacity to communicate or shall we broaden their horizons and fill their minds with colorful inspiring thought provoking verbal deliberation? I lean toward progress but that's only me.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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texcaboose
Known Hero
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posted November 07, 2007 02:50 AM |
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pretty simple... there is no reason to curse.
and about the smurf thing, nice reference to Family Guy...
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 07, 2007 02:55 AM |
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I don't give a smurf about this smurfsmurfed censorship! 
Seriously, though, banning curse words encourages people to express themselves better.
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Eccentric Opinion
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted November 07, 2007 03:11 AM |
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Quote:
1. Censorship. I dont like it at all. But if replacing it with a rule about what is acceptable language will make life to difficult for the mods, thats another story.
I'm not sure I follow you here. I can certainly understand your views about censorship - and in many situations I would agree that censorship is a terrible thing. In this case however it's different, because you didn't join Heroes Community with the promise that you would be able to cuss at will - you joined with the understanding that the forum's Code of Conduct prohibited foul language.
Ithink I've said this somewhere before - but I liken it to visiting someone's home. If you were to visit another person's house and they said "you may enter, we just ask that you please not swear" would you enter anyways, proceed to cuss like a truck driver, and then become offended if your hosts object?
Quote:
2. What language should be allowed on HC? As it is now bad language is actually allowed as long as you use *s and its for non-insulting purposes. Some limits would be ok imo but I believe that some swearing should be allowed in rare ocations where it would be what I would call "normal language".
And as i said before, if the language is used in that manner, you wouldn't be penalized - simply asked to use the asterisks in your posts. As Vlaad already explained, the board auto censor does not censor words in quotes, which is why we ask that you do it yourself.
Quote:
Another thing is, does these ***s or bleeps actually work? Lets say Jon Stewart at the oscars was swearing like hell and you could actually guess allmost everything he was saying despite the bleeps. How would that influence the youth?
I would say they work in the sense that by not being constantly exposed to the language, we do not become so accustomed to it that we call it 'normal' and we remain able to recognize that some people are offended when they hear profanity.
My question to you - is this coming from anywhere in particular? You're been a member for a long time, and I am not sure why this is coming out ow, and you seem so anxious about it - were you penalized somewhere, or warned? Or is this just something that's been bugging you for a few years?
To Consis: I thought your post was just smurfy, I'd have said so before but didn't want to make light of the topic. Now you'd better run...think I hear some angry "g'naps" coming your way, and If I'm not mistaken that purple smurf has his eye on you
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted November 07, 2007 03:47 AM |
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Quote:
What the hell is the meaning of rule 2) in the CODE OF CONDUCT: NO bad language, profanity, vulgarity or swearing.?
Why limit peoples possibility to express themselves as they want?
I could understand it if these words were used to insult others but that problem is allready taken care of in COC 1).
Wait a minute, the rule dosent limit the use of these words. The title of the rule is totally misleading. The thing is, these censored words are allowed for non-insulting purposes. This means that COC 2) only has one meaning: If you wanna write fuc.k you have to write ****. How stupid is that? Suddenly the language is turned into a guessing competition. Whats so terrible about looking at these words? Because the only effect this has, is that you wont have to look at the word, you will read it anyway provided that you can guess what the author wanted to write. The absurdity is complete because of the fact that if you "forget" to write the ****s, the cencored word will automatically be replaced by ***s.
I believe that is rule is the result of some misunderstanded political correctness originated in the USA. The rule dosent make sense, its stupid and should be removed.
You made a thread called. Censorship no thanks.
Then you make the thread saying why limit people?
make up your mind man
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Dreaming of a Better World
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