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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Wishes for new Map Locations
Thread: Wishes for new Map Locations This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted November 04, 2001 08:35 PM
Edited By: Djive on 6 Nov 2001

Wishes for new Map Locations

Since there are appear to be no thread for wishing for new map locations, I've created one.

So post your wishes for new locations here. Try to suggest new things which are not already in heroes 3.

I'm going to start with a wish for something which is related to the Talisman game and random encounters.

Basically, I'd want a pool of random events each of them different. Each time you visit a location which can produce a random event, you encounter random event(s) from the pool.

Example of Random events are:
- Creatures (size of stack depends on how long into the game it is, and is also random to some extent)
- Strangers (specially made, and/or a possibility to exclude some strangers from the ones that are in the game)
- Resources (any type)
- Artifacts (any type, possibility to exclude certain artifacts)
- Imprisoned Heroes
- Spells (which can be copied into your spellbook, it should be possible to exclude spells which may not appear)

When an army visits a map location it encounters one or more Random events from the pool.

The game exchanges the random events for each location in the beginning of each week. (This limitation is necessary. Otherwise players would visit the structure all the time to get more and more things and build up XP. Usually, it's a good thing to visit but the benefit of the structure must be limited in some way.)

The random events in a location don't replenish during a week. So if an army has made a visit, then nothing will happen next time.

The exception is if the army is defeated by Guards (Creatures). Then any dead heroes are tombstoned outside the Cave and the creatures remain inside the cave as guards. (Something similar may happen for Strangers.)

Cave:
This is an under-world structure, where you select 2 random events.

Labyrinth:
This is a land structure, where you select 1 random events.

Ruins:
This is a land structure, where you select 3 random events.

Ghost ship:
This is a sea-structure, where you select 2 random events.

It could also be possible to make the number of event customizeable for each "terrain" type (underworld, land, sea)

As a twist, each of the structures could have a certain chance for an appropriate monsters in addition to the random encounter. Cave could have Wolves or Trolls, Ruins could have Orcs or Wolves, and Ghost ship cold have Mermaids, Ghosts or Harpies.

Also if the random event indicates more than one encounter with monsters, you'll fight both types of monsters as one enemy.

You're welcome to comment or send in your own suggestions.
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Preserver
Preserver


Promising
Famous Hero
Elemental Druid
posted November 04, 2001 11:33 PM

Your map locations sound good Djive. The labyrinth should be guarded by minotaurs. I would also like to see pot-of-gold locations, where you could fight leprechauns for gold. The same with dwarven treasuries.
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Wyvern
Wyvern


Promising
Famous Hero
posted November 06, 2001 10:28 AM

What about a building similar to the Arena from Might and Magic? When you enter the structure, you may choose with what creatures to fight - weak, average, strong, extremely strong... The stronger the creatures, the more experience you gain when you defeat them. When you visit the building once, it won't be accessible for a certain amount of time - for example, one week/month.
I hope the idea is not too difficult to be added to the game.

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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted November 06, 2001 12:55 PM

Your post just got me thinking.. They should add new layers to the game. Yes now I know what you're thinking. This was considered before and rejected because it would add too much complexity and management if there were any more than two layers..

How about this idea.. There should be different types of layers, such as cloud layers, astral layers, underwater, etc (find some way to make it possible to traverse those planes). BUT.. only 2 layers per map. So make it selectable during mapmaking which additional layer you want to add (to the normal world layer). Which means if you go for an underwater layer, you can't have an underground layer. That way it's still only 2 layers per map and just as manageable as before. I just find underground to be a little dull. There was nothing exciting or pretty (as to be expected) under the ground. So it needs a bit more variety.
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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted November 06, 2001 12:56 PM

I would like tons of locations...

Which has no other purpose than work as happening place for some event mapmaker wants to put in there.

Like houses and stuff like that.
It could make those Epic maps so easier to do so you don't have to put hut there to represent some house.

That would be also entertaining to discover what those buildings are put for...

Maybe I would like to those garrisons have bigger role.
I mean they could work as watch towers for that fog of war and also give the bonus of stables and stuff like that.

I mean they could maintain some things that towns do. Maybe you could upgrade those with few levels.
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted November 06, 2001 08:05 PM
Edited By: Djive on 6 Nov 2001

Creature banks could have a few more options. Banks on earth tends to replenish fairly quick, so why wouldn't creature banks? Of course, with each robbery the guard should be increased too. The bank could have a limit on how many times it can be robbed before it stays empty permanently.

Another idea is to have "houses" which in fact just represent a random type of place. This place could be visitable a few times and then vanish. This could be a pile of resources, gold, a type of creatures, an offer to buy an artifact/potion, or an offer to buy s scroll with a spell. Other houses could harbour danger and you'll be attacked.

I created this thread for "map objects" so layers would be a bit off-topic.

For the Arena I'd prefer visiting it several times and each time with increasing monster strength. The first time easy with few creatures, the next time more creatures, and the third time even more creatures and so on.

It sound like an easy feature to do, even if you get to choose the difficulty. To add something extra I'd suggest an army led by a neutral Hero.

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The_Baal
The_Baal


Hired Hero
The God Of Fire
posted November 07, 2001 02:25 AM

I agree with you Djive but a better idea would be for the computer to choose the events for you.
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted November 07, 2001 08:30 AM bonus applied.
Edited By: Djive on 19 Nov 2001

Quote:
I agree with you Djive but a better idea would be for the computer to choose the events for you.


I didn't write it out but I thought it obvious that the player doesn't get to choose anything in any of the cases. The only choice made by the player is whether or not you want to visit.

After that the army has to encounter whatever the computer selects. The surprise is part of the fun.

For the places the computer would make the selection only the first time. So if you encounter a House and the computer decides it's a Mana Vortex which doubles your Mana, you'll encounter the same House (Mana Vortex) next time you visit until all the uses of the Mana Vortex have been exhausted.


Edited post to add the following:

Isn't it tedious that terrain never seems to change? I re-read the interview on astralwizard, and the new scipting system sounds promising for some of the things I'm suggesting below. The below suggestions concerns attributes which should be changeable for structures.

The Triggers for "Phasing" and "Blinking" is either a time configuration causing it to happen at preset intervals, or it happens when somethings triggers an event. (And this trigger could be almost anything.) For a triggered event, the scripts probably allows the mapmaker to prevent the same event to trigger twice in a row, without another trigger happening in between.

"Phasing": A structure Fades and Appears on the Map.

"Blinking": Two structures of equal size swap places on the Map.

Blinking could be fun to play if applied to towns.

Suddenly the heroes/troops inside find themselves in a new unknown place, perhaps surrounded by the enemy, while heroes/troops just outside the castle now have a neutral/enemy castle next door.

Also a wish for extended Obelisk/Grail options.
1. A wish to set on a per scenario basis whether there's 1 grail or 1 grail per town type.
2. A wish to set that an Obelisk must be visited by a Hero with Master in the corresponding magic skill for the puzzle map to the grail(s) to be visible. The Stronghold skill could be Combat in the absence of a Magic skill.)
3. A wish that the colour of the Obelisk decides which grail it leads too.
4. A wish that 2. and 3. should be combinable.
Wish 2.-4. Only apply if there is more than 1 grail on the map.

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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
posted November 20, 2001 01:17 AM

Offtopic: Bonus applied

The Grail/obelisk ideas are very intriguing, and this whole thread contains some interesting ideas by the "Zapper of Toads". Nice work, Djive.
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted December 03, 2001 08:31 PM

Reviving this old topic with one new idea.

Pirates' Nest:
This a sea-based fort infested with pirates. Fight a configurable amount of pirates (preferrably a few hundred or more). If you win the combat, you flag the dwelling.

This gives three benefits:
An amount of Pirates equal to the number you defeated offer to join your cause at a cost of 50% of the normal hiring price.

Each town the player with a built shipyard has a 10% per week to be visited by 50 Pirates which can be recruited. (If not recuited they disappear after a week.)

While Flagged the Pirates' nest increases ship movement by 10% for all ships in that players control.

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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"

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Svetac
Svetac


Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
posted December 03, 2001 11:03 PM
Edited By: Svetac on 3 Dec 2001

Advanced on-map tavern

One thing that Iíll try to give my opinion on are the Tavernís and their appearance on the map, their function and affect on the game.
I think that when a hero ends his turn in a Tavern that is on the map he should get a small bouns for his next day movement. It's logical since he had last night rest in a tavern (instead of wilderness) he has more energy next day and can pass a little bit longer distance (+3 steps is eonugh I think). This should occur not only when the night is spent (i mean turn ended) in tavern, but also in towns. Of course this bonus is for the next day only. Maybe there can be present two types of Taverns. Ones that are only Taverns and others that are greater Tavern along with castles. But when hero end his turn in a Tavern he should pay small amount of money (room renting and stuff). Also I think that there should be given greater meaning to the tavern. Hero's should be able to find small quests in there. This could be an optional thing for mapmakers to put in I suppose. I mean, itís more interesting to recieve a quest in a Tavern than in seerís hut. When Iím talking about this, Iíll try for a moment to talk about something that bothered me in HOMM3. I think that in HOMM3 there were too many places to visit on the map. I donít say that this is a bad thing, ant I donít want this to go back as in HOMM 1&2 but in HOMM3 it was overdone. And if it is just a little bit toned down wont hurt. Solution to this is a small merging of the buildings. And this brings me back to the Tavern topic. As I suggested the Tavern on a map can also replace the Seers hut,s. So instead of having in one area Stables, Tavern and Seer hut, we can have Greater Tavern thatís sintesys of the previous three.

Also there should be an option to play some kind of a card game in the taverns trough wich you can revcieve small sum of money. I was thinking that when you're playing the card game and your turn comes it's gonna be autosaved so you can continue to play it when off turn. And It's about a small sum of money. Let's say that you can go up to 500 gold - maybe even less. So that way this card game wont have serious impact on the strategy. If you don't like the card game don't play it and you wont be short from anything. So that way it won't hurt anybody. The purpose of this game is to kill the time when waiting for your turn in multiplayer games (and this means a lot to me because I along with my friends play realy realy alot of Multyplayer HOMM games).

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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---

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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted December 03, 2001 11:24 PM

The movement suggestion for taverns & towns looks Ok to me. The same could actually apply to similar places. For instance both sanctuaries and temples could have this bonus too.

I'm not overall happy about merging Taverns with other structures. I would like diversity. That is I'm happy with the new structure if the old ones are kept.

For the quests I believe offering tavern events to be scripted will solve most problems. This could work like Seer's Hut but could also be used to give clues to specific heroes or heroes possessing an artifact or a skill and similar. Basically, with the new scripting system every building can actually be used as a Seer's Hut.

Still, this kind of deception should be kept fairly low in the game. Overall, buildings should be what they appear to be. A tavern is a feasible place to have quests, but shouldn't be the only one.

The amount of structure problem is really a problem of the mapmaking utility or mapmakers placing too many structures. (At least if you mean their placving on the map you play.)

If on the other hand, you mean different object on the map, then I tend to disagree. There can't be too many map locations.

The card game. Hrmmm... Also a consequence of playing is also that you risk losing money in the game... I understand it so you play when you have a hero in a tavern while the other players make their moves and combats.


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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"

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Svetac
Svetac


Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
posted December 04, 2001 04:25 AM

To clear any eventual misunderstanding - I wish more structures, not less. The regular ones should remain and new hibrids (like the proposed tavern) should be added. And than it's up to the map-maker to use the ones that he think will suit his map style and the story of that particular map he's designing.

As for the card game, I think you should be able to acces is also from the regular town tavern, without any need to have a hero in that town. It can help kill the time while waiting for your turn in MP games.

One thing that I would love to see in the game is that every creature generator on map (or at least the higher level creature generators from 3rd and 4th level) have some other ability than only creature recruiting. Few examples:
-monastery: heals all your heroes
-training grounds: basic toughnes skill for 2000 gold
-cathedral: bless for the 1st turn in the next battle
-magi tower: order magic for 2000 gold
-ghost mound: kill ghosts for low level artifact
-elf dwelling: basic archery skill for 2000 gold
-dragon dwelling: -2 sulfur or suffer penalty of losing pack of the lowest level unit among your ranks
-devil dwelling: -1 morale in the next battle
-all the banks should be merged with the recruit dwellings that are common with them: imp recruitment dwelling merged with the imp cache, medusa stores with medusa recruitment dwellling and so on.
-windmill: fight peasants to flag the mill

Those were from top of my head though

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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---

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Svetac
Svetac


Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
posted December 06, 2001 04:32 PM bonus applied.

Ancient buildings Ė idea

I was thinking that maybe it would be interesting if there was an opportunity to build more grail like buildings in the towns. But these buildings shouldnít interfer with the grail. Neither they should be digged as the grail, nor they should interfere with the owers of the grail.

I was tinking of this. There can be map locations, that are ruins of some ancient civilization of the world of Axeoth. Those ruins are defended by strong, neutral creatures - Syrons. And those are the spirits of once the greatest warriors of the lost civilization. They live trough magic. These creatures should be 4th level, and one of the hardest to beat creatures in the game.

The Syrons are magical warriors of great power. Their weapons, their shields, even their bodies are imbuead with great magical powers. They have 25% natural magic resistance connected with magic mirror. So thereís a 25% chance that every spell cast on them will be reflected at the casterís army. But ďdeathĒ is their weakness. They suffer 125% damage from death armies, and deal only 75% damage on death armies.

When the player search the Ancient ruins, and defeat these Syrons, he gets ancient scroll. This scroll contains building plans for an ancient wonder. Afterwards this wonder can be built in the towns, by the same method that is used for the building of the grail. With one minor difference Ė you must pay in order to build the wonder.

Now, this wonders wonít be unique for every town like the grail. But there could be several different wonders that are predefined. And by random chance you get one of those when you search the ancient ruins.

And every town should have only one spot for these ancient wonders, so that way only one of these could be built in one town. The same system like when you choose wich level 2,3,4 creature you build. Thereís only one spot for these building, and if one ancient building occupy that spot, there is no place for another one in that town.

Possible ancient wonders:
- Ancient library: Few totaly unique spells
- Library: +1 spell for the first 3 levels of the mage guild.
- Statue: +1000 gp per day
- War shcool: visiting Heroes can learn Tactics for 2000 gold
- Battle academy: visiting Heroes can learn Combat or Scouting for 2000 gold
- Magic university: visiting Heroes can learn the aligned schools of magic of the town where the this wonder is built for 2000 gold
- Power channeler: efectivnes of all your spells all over the map is raised for 10%
- Lords Castle: +25% weekly production of all the 1st, 2nd and 3rd level creatures.
- School of good manners: visiting Heroes can learn nobility for 2000 gold
- Magic resource silo: day 1: +2 wood, day 2: +2 ore, day 3: +1 crystal, day 4: +1 gem, day 5: +1 sulfur, day 6: +1 mercury, day 7: + 500 gold
- Magic stables: increase the movement of your heroes armyes troughout the land, without need to visit them weekly (same as the lighthouse)
Well, this pack of buildings proposals, was just an idea, so you can get my picture. Iím sure that there can be wonder designs that are more imaginative than these and that can add even more to the game if balanced properly and not made too strong, so that theyíre not crucial as the holy grail can be.

So what do you think?  

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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---

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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted December 06, 2001 06:58 PM
Edited By: Djive on 6 Dec 2001

Very good idea Svetac.

I'm not sure about being able to build every ancient building in every town. It should be possible to restrict at least some of them to certain towns, forcing the player to capture a town of that type to get the full benefit. (This could be used with very good effect for a map-maker, by making one single well defended neutral town of that type.)

Otherwise I'd agree with you on the setup.

The ancient wonders are a bit too mundane, and not giving all that much of a benefit and perhaps too similar to exisiting buildings. I liked the Ancient Library, Power Channeler and the Magic Stables.

Since I suggested town specific buildings for ancient buildings I'll make a few suggestion along those lines.

- Power Channeler (Works well for Asylum)
* Increases damage for all spells cast by the player's heroes and creatures with X%.

- Mana Vortex (Asylum)
* Gives visiting hero and creatures +50% of maximum mana. (Unlimited uses.)

- Icon of Resistance (Stronghold)
* Gives all allied creatures and heroes an additional X% magic resistance.

- Tower of War (Stronghold)
* This works as a Shackles of War for all combats. (No fleeing or surrendering)

- Ghost transformer (Necropolis)
* Allows Necromancers to transform any living creatures to Ghosts. (Perhaps this should require say 5 level 1 creatures per Ghost created to make it at least somewhat more balanced.)

- Castle Gate (Necropolis)
* Allows any allied hero to move (with the rest of the army) to the city with the Castle Gate at any time. The Castle Gate comes with a ritual (no skill required to learn it) which must be learnt before the hero can use Castle Gate.

- Ancient Library (Works well for Academy)
* Conatains some unique spells.

- Pillars of Persuasion (Academy)
* Increases the chance to charm creatures with X%.

- Well of Life (Haven)
* Any creature who visit the town gain +X% Health for one week.

- Holy Light (Haven)
* All allied creatures and heroes deal an additional X% damage against undead creatures and evil aligned creatures.

- Beacon of Summoning (Preserve)
* Increases the growth rate of creatures in the city where it is. Each hero who visits will double the effectiveness of their recruitment skill (post-combat effect) for 1 week.

- Elven Bowyery (Preserve)
* All allied creatures deal an additional X% damage when making ranged attacks.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"

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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted December 06, 2001 08:01 PM

to repeat the previous posters over and over again, the ideas are good indeed. so many of them that i didn't even remember all of them..

maybe you could also get some cash when you fight in the arena. maybe an opponent in the arena could be a wandering hero, in that case you would have to fight without your army, of course. maybe you could even recruit a hero there?

========
one topic that i would like to bring back is the sphinx. the border guards are often annoying imho, i cannot quite see much more in them than just garrisons, at least without having to go overboard with imagination. so there could be a more magical/impassable or defeatable sphinx instead.

version 1: a sphinx statue.
you cannot fight this one, but you must visit a map location, then you get to choose if you want it disappear. the statue would act just like a piece of inpassable terrain.

version 2: a living sphinx.
if you have visited the corresponding map location, you can make it disappear, otherways you can choose to fight it. so, if there wouldn't be much challenge in travelling to the other end of an xl map (because you have 100 black dragons already) and wait for all the turn of the opponent (that may take quite long in the end game), you can just kill it. i.e. it would limit you in the beginning game only.

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Svetac
Svetac


Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
posted December 06, 2001 11:20 PM

Hey Djive great ideas there

Maybe every town than can have two or three posibilities for ancient buildings, and you choose which one you want to build, the one that suits your strategy in the current map. Like, if I play Haven against Necropolis I would choose to build - Holy Light (Haven)
* All allied creatures and heroes deal an additional X% damage against undead creatures and evil aligned creatures.
, othervise my best choice would be - Well of Life (Haven)
* Any creature who visit the town gain +X% Health for one week.

Hm?

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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---

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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted December 07, 2001 12:15 AM

Quote:
* Any creature who visit the town gain +X% Health for one week.

Hm?


Yeah, perhaps it should be a global bonus instead as otherwise you'll get problems when combining stacks with and without the bonus. Mind you a global bonus would have to be kept fairly low to maintain game balance. Probably not more than 5-10%. A weekly bonus could probably be 10-25% without unbalancing the game.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"

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Svetac
Svetac


Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
posted December 07, 2001 04:36 PM

Yeah, global bonus is far better solution, and 5-10% is OK. Balance is everything
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---

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darkspirit
darkspirit


Famous Hero
aka Zutus
posted December 07, 2001 06:53 PM

I don't think the spell-shrines are usefull, so what I'd like to see is shrines with spells that can only be learned in such a shrine and not in a mage guild.
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Young moles appear to be in full dispersal which means there are more moles per acre than at any other time of the year

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