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Heroes Community > MapHaven Guild > Thread: Forgotten Maps
Thread: Forgotten Maps This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Shae_Trielle
Shae_Trielle


Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
posted November 06, 2001 03:27 AM
Edited By: Hexa on 26 Jan 2002

Forgotten Maps

I'm so utterly tired of the current crop of maps that are available, the kind that focus on speed and single front warfare. You only have to keep your eye on one particular gateway of the map and you're always looking for the same old opponent player. These closed maps are nothing compared to real strategic and classic maps that people seem to have forgotten very quickly.

What sort of old, forgotten maps do you like? What used to get you thinking when you first started playing HoMM? And why have you forgotten them? Are they not as great as they first were or have you simply decided that playing them has lost it's sheen?

It seems to me that the early maps of Heroes3 have been discarded. CD maps especially. I have had some of the most awesome games on maps like Crimson, Realms of Chaos and Warlords (try playing that with 4 people!). Some people claim that maps like these are imbalanced, but I think that they're just too jaded to try and find ways to overcome the little nuances in the game.

Sometimes I yearn for a rebirth of these old maps. Don't you?

*smile*

Edit: revived!@

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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted November 06, 2001 04:37 AM

cd maps

The problem with those maps is that the person who knows them most intimately will almsot always prevail. Even more than on standard ToH maps because of those little "nuances" as you called them can be distorted and made into a game winning formula by a person who knows the map well.

This is a symptom even of the almost perfecly mirrorlike ToH maps where the person with dozens of games on one map will beat the person who has only played a few games on it. Not always of course, but usually. This is the same in any type of warfare or struggle, knowing the terrain and other factors reduces the unpredicability down to only a few things, and the person who controls more of those things wins. It's very simple at that level.

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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 06, 2001 10:28 AM

Before I played online, there was a great map I used to love called "Myth and Legend" I broke it out not too long back, and its not the same anymore. Still, it used to be fun
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Hexa
Hexa


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted November 06, 2001 11:29 AM

Yes Myth and Legend was a great map ...
Don't forget the Pride-series and Eternal Love campaign for instance!

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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@

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Shae_Trielle
Shae_Trielle


Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
posted November 06, 2001 12:10 PM

Well in my opinion people are specialists at ToH maps these days anyways, so there shouldn't be too much of a problem becoming a specialist in any of the old maps either. Memory maps, as I call them, are just as good as the current crop of HG's and DW's that we all seem to see on the Zone time after time. Are they really that superior to the old mirror ones?

Myth and Legend? Is that on the original Erathia CD?

*smile*

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Hexa
Hexa


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted November 06, 2001 12:33 PM

no
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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted November 08, 2001 09:22 AM

Yes...forgotten maps...

There was one map that I really liked.....hmmm...let's see...there was some water in it...there were few towns...maybe underground...no, no that was that other map...and you could start...was it necro?...not sure about that...anyways...nice map.

It's name?
I have forgotten it.
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Hexa
Hexa


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted November 08, 2001 09:36 AM

Well thnkx Sha_man. Those are the posts that REALLY help.
:-)
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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@

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Shae_Trielle
Shae_Trielle


Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
posted November 08, 2001 11:49 AM

I still can't quite see why good maps and once very popular ones, have gone down the drain. And at least the good thing about these cd maps is that everybody knows them to some degree. LOL even a newbie has played Crimson Clover before, I still see people asking to play it every now and then. I haven't played it in ages, but from what I remember, the tactical and strategic options of multi-faceted warfare are limitless.

I played a fun game with GeForce2Pro once with 2 other people. A nice 4 way ffa, and I somehow insulted GeForce and he came for me straight away and had me dead by early week3. This was I believe the first version of Fast and Furious (which is C&C based) and I was really quite confident of having a good game. Week 3. And I was out of the game.

If I had've known the map as I do now (having played it two or three times since), I may have realized my opportunities a bit better and given GeForce a much better run for his money. In the end, his superior skill would most likely be the deciding factor, but that doesn't mean that the MAP itself can't dictate some aspects of the game. Some maps demand multiple strategies and aren't so linear simply because they are designed for quick and early interaction with easy defence and a wide range of offensive targets and goals available and they don't rely on logistics or high stats or an abundance of treasure just to get you there.

*smile*

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wiggy_wam
wiggy_wam


Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
posted November 09, 2001 07:07 AM

in the maps that I have made recently, I have designed them that it requires more than just one main and multiple scouts.

Like in my map HotSpot, you HAVE to have one hero to claim the hot-spot ... and fending off opponent hero trying to claim the hot-spot ... while your other hero does all the rest. ie: grabbing artifacts, robbing banks, invading, or defending.

or like in my new map water-crossing:  there's SO many things to do and get, that you need more than one hero to do everything.  In this map, it's recommended to get 2 or 3 non-scout heroes.

here's some of my favorite maps currently:
7 lakes; universal commander.  I also enjoy All for one.  

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The_Blue_Camel
The_Blue_Camel


Adventuring Hero
Bearer of the Mighty Camelnor
posted November 10, 2001 01:03 AM

seven lakes...

that map is allright... but lacks any decoration at all, and has a few probs that the h2 version didnt have.

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Lord_Echo
Lord_Echo


Famous Hero
Ranger of the good
posted November 12, 2001 04:19 PM

HEXA!

hey hexa do u have my map: the dungeon keeper! could u fix a bit on it and send it to my e-mail! im submitting it for a contest! so u have to send it to my e-mail!
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Don`t be simple, be complx-

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CraigHack
CraigHack


Known Hero
Have fantasies, will travel...
posted November 12, 2001 09:04 PM

I was asked once to make an "absolutely perfectly balanced" Heroes 3 map for the two finalists in a "King of the Hill" type tournement. This was in the early days of Heroes 3 and the CD maps were no good for the final game.

Shae_ , you might try this one just for fun. Intended only for Multiplayers, ok in single player mode but you will work your butt off in multi. Pick either color, no advantages for either. Not a lot of decoration and only a little story but much fun and hard work for Necromancer players.

The map is "End of the World", you can still find it at Astral Wizard I believe.
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The Gods have brought us together... I can't imagine why.

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Icon
Icon


Adventuring Hero
Tower Loving Criminal
posted November 13, 2001 01:45 AM

I didnt like all CD maps, but there were some wich I still remember - it means that they must have been really good.

I and firends that I play with never use the same map more than 3times. After playing it a few times we know the map to a degree that every move is made automaticaly. I know what will I do each day of week1, week2 etc. and what my opponent is doing - its just SO boring. Howerver there are some exceptions.

I found that the thing I love is imbalanced maps. On ToH maps (Ive played only HourglassXL, but I base my oppinion on posts of ToH players)I know that the opponent has exactly the same things that I have on my side of the map. Thats makes the map 100% luck dependent

Recently Ive played really great map. Guy who played Necropolis had thousands of lvl1 monsters guarding everything so he could make a huge skeleton based army (9000 or smth like this). Dungenon guy had all kinds of dwellings so he could make use of portal of summoning. I (Tower) and the guy playing Rampart have Grail hidden on our side of map. The game was great b/c everyone had smth. different to do. It wasnt the kind of game: find your opponent before he finds you (dim door&fly). This is the kind of map that I enjoy most.

There were other maps which are great because of the imbalance factor. Its sad but that kind of maps is almost dead

One more thing I noticed that new maps dont make much use of events. Myth&Legend was great b/c you were involved in a some kind of a story thanks to event system.



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Gimmickless
Gimmickless


Promising
Known Hero
Cannon Maker
posted November 13, 2001 08:52 AM

Quote:

The map is "End of the World", you can still find it at Astral Wizard I believe.


Found it.  Dear me, this is a map that's giving me a run for my money!  It's month four, I had the advantage at month two until I went too far and met his main.  Whooped my ass, and cleared me out to my last castle where his momentum finally stopped. I fought him off and am now slowly coming back. The only reason I'm still alive is that the other color CPU is starting to clear out the other side.

I already thank you for a great fighting map that's giving me one hell of a time trying to beat.  I'm learning a lot more about controlling the board than any other map I've played so far.  I don't want to think how I'd do higher than playing on normal difficulty... *LOL*
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Johnny The Ball:... too long to display...

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted November 14, 2001 09:31 PM

Rych, man you keep beating me to the punch.  I loved Myth and Legend.  I changed the specs to eliminating everyone else and edited those nasty piles of gold by Blue(the southern Rampart).  There's no way a player should have 200,000 gold by day 4.  I was disappointed that it didn't come with SoD.  Is there a way to download it?
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Hexa
Hexa


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted October 01, 2003 06:44 PM

Moving to MapHaven Guild!@

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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted October 03, 2003 05:08 AM

Quote:
I didnt like all CD maps, but there were some wich I still remember - it means that they must have been really good.

I and firends that I play with never use the same map more than 3times. After playing it a few times we know the map to a degree that every move is made automaticaly. I know what will I do each day of week1, week2 etc. and what my opponent is doing - its just SO boring. Howerver there are some exceptions.

I found that the thing I love is imbalanced maps. On ToH maps (Ive played only HourglassXL, but I base my oppinion on posts of ToH players)I know that the opponent has exactly the same things that I have on my side of the map. Thats makes the map 100% luck dependent

Recently Ive played really great map. Guy who played Necropolis had thousands of lvl1 monsters guarding everything so he could make a huge skeleton based army (9000 or smth like this). Dungenon guy had all kinds of dwellings so he could make use of portal of summoning. I (Tower) and the guy playing Rampart have Grail hidden on our side of map. The game was great b/c everyone had smth. different to do. It wasnt the kind of game: find your opponent before he finds you (dim door&fly). This is the kind of map that I enjoy most.

There were other maps which are great because of the imbalance factor. Its sad but that kind of maps is almost dead

One more thing I noticed that new maps dont make much use of events. Myth&Legend was great b/c you were involved in a some kind of a story thanks to event system.





Yes, exactly, people mistake imbalance for asymetrical, but now there are randoms.

That makes me think though. If I could create a map where there are 4 sections on the map. Each side gets 2 castles of the same type. The four areas are designed for necro, inferno, stronghold, and tower.

Stronghold has only one town, but is the only one who can get the grail. It starts off with a great amount of crystal and gold, so a complete build of castle and all dwellings is guaranteed to a skilled player. This complete build never happens for the lack of crystal on other maps. This idea is that Stronghold is much richer than the other maps, but lacks the strength in numbers of the other two castles. This will allow Stronghold to acquire more of the artifacts early in the game and eventually get the grail. But Stronghold in the long run will be outnumbered and be forced to beat their opponent quickly as it takes time to build two towns and then recruit those creatures not to mention the tedious skeleton/demon farming.

Necro is pretty basic in its approach, lots of level 1, 2, and 3 creatures and an additional level 7 creature dwelling to use to make bone dragons. Perhaps a way to get counterstrike or animate dead spells.

Inferno will have lots of small creature dwellings or "demon food." To go along with the creature dwellings will be diplomacy for getting more guys to demonize. There will be many creature stacks such as golems and dendroids with the idea that fighting slow tanks making it easier to make demons as they can be kept at a greater distance. To aid inferno in demon herding, hell hounds will come prebuilt in both towns.

Tower is the most expensive in the game, but if given enough resources is THE strongest. Tower cannot build capitols, has the poorest section of the map, but instead has lots of heavily guarded mines and endless banks to rob as well as naga banks to help get some cheap early troops. Tower start off with nothing for resources using events. However they have all mage guilds, library, and are given a box with expert wisdom, expert intelligence, and 5 knowledge. Using spells wisely they should be able to free up some of those mines early on and rob just about any bank. As a source for resources. Wells and magic spring will be quite frequent in the tower section, but heavily guarded. With good gameplay, tower should be able to get enough money from banks early on to somewhat build up 1 town. Since Tower already has a great magic hero with 2 level 5 mage guilds and 2 libraries, it will be really powerful when combined with a half way decent army. Imagine having that many spells

~implo, ress, blind, summon...~

... But this will be difficult to achieve, since tower is so poor at the beginning compared to the rest of the players. A halfway decent army to keep itself alive to cast those nasty spells will be difficult to build with tower, due to its poverty.

This map will take more tampering to balance it than the basic mirror map, but I think it would be a lot more fun, because of the contrast in gaming styles between the opponents.

I realize that people don't play fixed maps any more, but is it possible to translate this type of contrast into a random map?
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Go Red Sox!

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dragonsister
dragonsister

Hero of Order
MapHaven administrator
posted October 06, 2003 12:48 AM

Well, RedSox - that sounds like a great theme for a map; any chance of you grabbing an editor and putting it together?  Whether or not it would work in multi-player, it would probably be enjoyable for average players in single-player ...

DragonSister
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MapHaven

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zilonite
zilonite


Famous Hero
posted October 17, 2003 01:51 AM

Quote:

I realize that people don't play fixed maps any more, but is it possible to translate this type of contrast into a random map?



Almost no chance to put it into random template - too many details that can't be preset on random template. Only way to implement the idea is the one Dragonsister mentioned - take an editor and do it However it should take lots of patience to balance it all out...
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Elephants commonly have a bad eyesight. Yet with their bulk this is not a major problem for them.

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