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| Thread: Serbia chooses a new president, and a new way... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Vidoja
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posted January 08, 2008 11:08 PM |
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Edited by Vidoja at 23:33, 08 Jan 2008.
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I'm not so sure he is right about that; despite the large number of Serbian nationalists who might want to defend Kosovo "by all means necessary", 1most Serbs realize the province is virtually lost. Common people in Serbia are fed up with national myths, conflicts and isolation. 2Jovanovic represents this option - liberal, democrat and pro-European. While the upcoming elections in Serbia are insignificant for the rest of the world, they are very important for our country. We will either turn our backs to reality or continue our road to the EU.
1. not true
2. A national traitor, liar and a thief
EDIT: Jovanovic can't be arrested because he has the immunity as a member of the parlaiment!
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Vlaad
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posted January 09, 2008 12:02 AM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 04:25, 31 Jan 2008.
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1. not true
What is not true? That Kosovo is virtually lost, or that most people realize that?Quote:
2. A national traitor, liar and a thief
Well, treason and theft are criminal activities, so I'm asking you again: why is he allowed to run for president instead of rotting in the jail? Please reply with more than one line of mud slinging and ad hominem attacks.
The smear campaign against Jovanovic comes from the same tabloids which were responsible for the witch hunt against late Djindjic. Even the notable members of G17 came out about the deliberate scandalmongering against the late prime minister (surprise, surprise - Jovanovic was his closest associate). Your claims against Jovanovic also originated in those media. See the pattern here?
The other possible source of your accusations might be Tijanic's national television. You are surely familiar with the fact that Tijanic, former Milosevic's Minister of Information, was Kostunica's choice... 
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EDIT: Jovanovic can't be arrested because he has the immunity as a member of the parlaiment!
He became a member of the Parliament recently, while those accusations are years old. Besides, the immunity can be removed by the Parliament. I'm sure Kostunica's and Nikolic's parties would love that, so what's the problem...?
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antipaladin
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posted January 09, 2008 07:17 AM |
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i do not know how the immunity goes in serbia,but when it needed to fade away in here,it did,faded away,when our ex preisdent was ocused at rape.
So there is NO albaninan politcian in serbia at all?
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Vidoja
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posted January 09, 2008 01:53 PM |
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You don't now much of Cedomir Jovanovic, do you, nor the law?
The previous By-law also stated immunity for a member of the parlaiment, minister, prime minister, vice prime minister and the president.
Cedomir Jovanovic:
Parlaiment elections, 2000. - member of the parlaiment
Forming of a new goverment, 2003. - vice prime minister
Parlaiment elections, 2007. - member of the parlaiment
Those accusations weren't even known before 2000, because then he was OK, but then suddenly started to gain money... And circles under his eyes (podochnjaci).
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Vidoja
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posted January 09, 2008 01:58 PM |
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So there is NO albaninan politcian in serbia at all?
They have their own elections in Kosovo! (isn't that alredy enough for them) There is a party called Coallition of Albanians from the Preshevo valley but they are Albanians who don't live in Kosovo. They don't have a candidate but they have 1 member in the parlaiment.
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antipaladin
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posted January 09, 2008 04:58 PM |
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I find it wierd that a poltician use drugs..
but then again,our ex preisdent was acused of rape. whatever he did it or not,i cannot know,and neither can you,unless you've been there.
Does the serbian parlament have a muslim party ,not even talking about a muslim case.(aka some minister that is muslim).
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Vlaad
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posted January 09, 2008 06:51 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 20:46, 09 Jan 2008.
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You don't now much of Cedomir Jovanovic, do you, nor the law?
The previous By-law also stated immunity for a member of the parlaiment, minister, prime minister, vice prime minister and the president.
Cedomir Jovanovic:
Parlaiment elections, 2000. - member of the parlaiment
Forming of a new goverment, 2003. - vice prime minister
Parlaiment elections, 2007. - member of the parlaiment
*SIGH*
Jovanovic was not a member of the Parliament since 2004, because of his conflict with Tadic in 2003.
Besides, the immunity can be removed by the Parliament.Quote:
And circles under his eyes (podochnjaci).
If those are a sign of drug addiction, then my grandmother is a drug addict too. 
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Vlaad
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posted January 09, 2008 07:00 PM |
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So there is NO albaninan politcian in serbia at all?
They have their own elections in Kosovo! (isn't that alredy enough for them)
THIS is what you don't understand - if Kosovo remains part of Serbia, Kosovo Albanians will be citizens of Serbia, just like you. In addition to their local elections in Kosovo, they will have the right to vote for the Parliament and President of Serbia. That's 1.5 million potential voters - a large number in a small country such as Serbia.
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Vlaad
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posted January 09, 2008 07:06 PM |
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Does the serbian parlament have a muslim party ,not even talking about a muslim case.(aka some minister that is muslim).
Sure, there are members of the Parliament who are Hungarians, Bosniaks, Romani etc (also ministers and vice-PMs in the past). The Kosovo Albanians have decided themselves to boycott all Serbian elections (see the Kosovo thread for their reasons).
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Vidoja
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posted January 09, 2008 09:39 PM |
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So there is NO albaninan politcian in serbia at all?
They have their own elections in Kosovo! (isn't that alredy enough for them)
THIS is what you don't understand - if Kosovo remains part of Serbia, Kosovo Albanians will be citizens of Serbia, just like you. In addition to their local elections in Kosovo, they will have the right to vote for the Parliament and President of Serbia. That's 1.5 million potential voters - a large number in a small country such as Serbia.
I would agree to that, as long there is no violence.
His official site here clearly states that he is a member of the parlaiment from 2000. If it is not so, than he really is a liar.
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Vidoja
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posted January 09, 2008 09:42 PM |
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I find it wierd that a poltician use drugs..
but then again,our ex preisdent was acused of rape. whatever he did it or not,i cannot know,and neither can you,unless you've been there.Quote:
They are all garbage (glory to the exeptions). If Cedomir Jovanovic didn't touch drugs, he is mad.
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Vlaad
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posted January 09, 2008 10:26 PM |
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His official site here clearly states that he is a member of the parlaiment from 2000. If it is not so, than he really is a liar.
Where does he clearly state that he has been a member of the Parliament since 2000? The article states that he WAS that, among other things. It's just a short CV, without exact dates. He's not a liar LOL - not one sentence claims he was in the Parliament from 2004 to 2007. He did return in 2007, as the leader of new Liberal Democrat Party.
Jovanovic was not on the Democrat Party's list in 2003 and he was expelled from the Party in 2004 - that conflict is mentioned several times in various articles at his official site (here, for example... scroll down).
Jovanovic has several faults, but his alleged drug addiction is just part of his opponents' smear campaign. If you really wanted to discredit him, you could focus on his abuse of power, harsh rhetorics, inability to compromise, etc.
Still, he is the loudest voice of liberal Serbia at the moment, which is good in my book. 
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baklava
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posted January 10, 2008 02:20 PM |
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Well on one side we have the "democratic" option: kissing the bottoms of those who bombed us until yesterday and who would take our lands and anything else just to prove how mighty they are and how they can use Serbia as their b*tch whenever they want.
On the other hand, that option is the only alternative to the "radical" one, which is basically an ultranational movement calling for cheap patriotism which would probably push us in a senseless war with Albania or something, and drag God knows who else into it... There would again be genocides from all sides, and again our people would turn out as the sole bad guys from whatever happens there. Not to mention possible international sanctions, inflation and more or less everything similar to the reign of Slobodan Milosevic.
In my opinion.
So it's prostitution or hell. Though everything put aside, Tadic does seem like a far better choice than Nikolic, at least to me. I've had enough of dictatorship in the 90s...
Besides, our friendship with Russia will not be destroyed if the democrats win the elections...
Of course, you can go ahead and say how I am oversimplifying things or not seeing them from the right angle, but having lived here since I was born, and looking at all the candidates, this is just the way it seems to me. Most people who vote Tadic aren't doing it cause they like him, they're just voting AGAINST NIKOLIC, and Tadic is the only option left (junkies excluded).
I'd personally vote for the Romani (Gypsy) party, which you haven't listed for some reason. I like gypsies.
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Vidoja
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posted January 11, 2008 08:17 PM |
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I'd personally vote for the Romani (Gypsy) party, which you haven't listed for some reason. I like gypsies.
Everything you said was true. That is why I am for the party in the middle, DSS. The gypsies didn't candidate anyone so that is why they are not on the list.
NEWSFLASH Marijan Ristichevitj, the candidate from the peasant party was hit by some druk people. He blames the police, and the police says that he got drunk and started the fight.
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antipaladin
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posted January 11, 2008 09:36 PM |
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why is joining the EU considerd such a bad thing?
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Shai-Hulud
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posted January 11, 2008 11:23 PM |
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Erm, I don't know the full extent of Serbian politics( like anyone does..), but I don't get it why choose Russia over UE. I mean i get it, beacause of the involvement of UE in Kosovo declaring its freedom, but hate won't get you anywhere.
Hell, I am Romanian and I dislike UE aswell, but for sure I dislike Russia 10 times more. It's like choosing the lesser evil. Choose nationalist party and favor Russia and get what? You think Russia will help you get back Kosovo or what?
92% populations albanians in Kosovo and international recognition of independent state Kosovo. Think you can solve it out? I really doubt you can do anything else by now.
Think Romanians aren't mad after their lost territories, Moldova and Bucovina but go argue with who. 14th Army of Russia in Moldova f... Moldova for the last 17 in years like hell. If there is one Romanian who is for help from Russia( they way Russia is "helping" ) I would REALLY be surprised!
Rather than continue the killing, you all there should be thinking about how to help develope Serbia and assure a decent way of living for your kids.
I myself am a moderate nationalist, but I can see it through my own eyes. EU means advancement, means civilization, knowledge, social condition. Even if after the fall of Communism in Romania things got very very bad for at least 10 years, I can see things going to a good way. Hope they stay on this road, and maybe Serbia should do the same.
So, my advice vote for the current president. Even if it may seem he is corrupt, don't worry they all are corrupt. Romania haid its share of corrupt politicians in abudency. It's like a freaking mark of ex-communist countries! It's where he is heading the country to that matters.
Stay cool, Peace dude!
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baklava
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posted January 12, 2008 12:18 AM |
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The gypsies didn't candidate anyone so that is why they are not on the list.
Oh. 
@Shai-Hulud
I agree with your reasoning. Except disliking Russia. To me, Russia and USSR are two completely different things... But never mind that.
That's why the pro-European option sounds better.
But don't forget that Serbia is the nation of extreme stubbornness. I mean it.
-The Ottoman Empire comes knocking on our door with about 10 times larger army than ours and tells us to surrender peacefully.
What do we do?
We engage them in open battle.
-Austria-Hungary requests we lay down our arms in WW1. They have a several times larger and better equipped army, but what do we do?
Oh yes, we fight.
-Hitler offers us a pact and we turn it down. Unlike all our neighbors who accepted it. So we're completely surrounded and hopeless. And it's rather clear we're going to get squashed.
But we fight.
My people has a history of pushing itself into deeper and deeper sh*t every minute for some ideals, honor, bravery and whatever. Alas, that leaves no room to common sense So anything can happen.
To quote Alice in Wonderland, "we're all mad here".
Choosing between joining the EU but letting Kosovo go, or delaying our entry into EU for some 20 or more years but making Kosovo independence as hard as possible, is for a large number of Serbs no choice at all, I'm afraid. :\
But I can't do anything about it. So anyway.
Peace to you too, man
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Vidoja
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posted January 12, 2008 03:23 PM |
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Erm, I don't know the full extent of Serbian politics( like anyone does..), but I don't get it why choose Russia over UE. I mean i get it, beacause of the involvement of UE in Kosovo 1declaring its freedom, but hate won't get you anywhere.
Hell, I am Romanian and I dislike UE aswell, but for sure I dislike Russia 10 times more. It's like choosing the lesser evil. Choose nationalist party and favor Russia and get what? You think Russia will help you get back Kosovo or what?
92% populations albanians in Kosovo and international recognition of independent state Kosovo. Think you can solve it out? I really doubt you can do anything else by now.
Think Romanians aren't mad after their lost territories, Moldova and Bucovina but go argue with who. 14th Army of Russia in Moldova f... Moldova for the last 17 in years like hell. If there is one Romanian who is for help from Russia( they way Russia is "helping" ) I would REALLY be surprised!
Rather than continue the killing, you all there should be thinking about how to help develope Serbia and assure a decent way of living for your kids.
I myself am a moderate nationalist, but I can see it through my own eyes. EU means advancement, means civilization, knowledge, social condition. Even if after the fall of Communism in Romania things got very very bad for at least 10 years, I can see things going to a good way. Hope they stay on this road, and maybe Serbia should do the same.
So, my advice vote for the current president. Even if it may seem he is corrupt, don't worry they all are corrupt. Romania haid its share of corrupt politicians in abudency. It's like a freaking mark of ex-communist countries! It's where he is heading the country to that matters.
Stay cool, Peace dude!
Freedom?
Would you like more pictures and complete lists of our churches?
Ah, you are Romanian. You don't like these pictures because you banned such a picture in some museum on some exibition, did you?
Russia and USSR are different.
They just follow the law and reasnoble things, you know.
I don't know how it was in Moldova, but Albanians cleansed Serbs from Kosovo by force! Maybe if they were all peaceful, Kosovo would be their a long time ago and they would take care of our people and religious objects. And this is the 21. century and still some 'JUSTICE' countrys stay blind to Albanian terror.
After the etnic cleansing of 60% of non-Albanian population. I again repeat, Kosovo indipendance is illegal! It violates: The By-law of Serbia, Resolution 1244, Statute of UN, and the territorial integrity of Serbia!
We aren't the ones that are terrorising Kosovo.
Yes, but for you. For us, that means the colleagues who bombarded us, when Milosevic was their target, and for us that also means supporters of violation of their own laws.
When the leader of Communisam died (Tito), Yugoslavia and, once the nation that once called themselves 'Yugoslavs' wanted to separate. And the army that was Partisan was starting to be 'Chetnik' in the eyes of Croatia and Slovenia. And then, the war started, after which Serbian millitary leaders got 20 yeares, and Croatian leaders(10% of them) got 5 yeares. I have many friends that emigrated from Bosnia, and you don't know how they feel. They came in Serbia with virtually nothing. 90% of Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia had to emigrate and they did. But the EU and UN did nothing. But when Milosevic said to the Serbs in Kosovo: 'Who hit you, nobody can hit you!' (I'm not a supporter of Milosevic) the same EU and UN started to bombard the people of Serbia. Hello!
Boris Tadic is by all means not corrupt, and Tomislav Nikolic seams also that way. But, the question is: Will Nikolic be more effective than Tadic? You can't say.
Peace dude:
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Shai-Hulud
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posted January 12, 2008 05:25 PM |
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Oh, brother.. You don't get it do you ?
First of all you try to get to me by showing me a picture of a destroyed church and saying some blah blah message about museum. Yeah you got it right, we romanians got the destroyed church part in a museum, but we still got out churches right there.
Russia and USSR are different... yeah right. They just follow the law and reasonable things? Come on, you really want me to get on this subject?
I don't know the exact facts behind the starting of the ethnic purge. But I am pretty damn sure you don't either. To my point both sides had thier faults.
Think this helped?:
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Kosovo was the poorest part of Yugoslavia: in 1979 the average per capita income was $795, compared with the national average of $2,635
Tito's policy even if intented to do good, had its bad ramificattions aswell. The SANU Memorandum forged even more hate. So on the background that all this tension was in the region, Slobodan Milosevici does what?
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The only Albanian-language newspaper, Rilindja, was banned and TV and radio broadcasts in Albanian ceased. Albanian was no longer an official language of the province. Pristina University, seen as a hotbed of Albanian nationalism, was purged: 800 lecturers at Pristina University were sacked and 22,500 of the 23,000 students expelled.
I am not saying Albanians were saint! Heck no, they did their awful bidings aswell. But for crise sake .. Get this stupid message into your system: HATE ONLY CALLS FOR MORE HATE
You don't know the full extent of what happened. You blame it all on NATO. But you forget the Bosnian Serbian War and what happened then.
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As a counter to the operation some 400 UNPROFOR peacekeepers were seized by the Bosnian Serb Army and used as human shields at key Bosnian Serb sites.
. Indeed NATO worked against its chart by interfereing in a non-NATO country civil war and made a somewhat bad operation out of it.
I am trully sorry for what's going on in Serbia and Kosovo. For being an Orthodox nation I trully appreciate them, but before religion, before nationality comes the idea of HUMANITY.
So what I am trying to say here is that you should really start to get thinking what will you do for your children. Ethnic hate in the region will persist, Kosovo will probably get its independance and will try to join Albania. So what are you going to do ? Continue the hating and pass it to your children? 40 years later bury your 20 years old son who died in an Albanian-Serbian War?
You just think about it.
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baklava
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posted January 12, 2008 11:34 PM |
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Boris Tadic is by all means not corrupt, and Tomislav Nikolic seams also that way.
ROFLMAO
Oh come on.
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HATE ONLY CALLS FOR MORE HATE
This is what it's all about.
The only problem is that everyone needs to realize that. Both Serbs and Albanians.
And somehow the world keeps telling that just to Serbs. While Albanians are actually getting rewarded.
Making Kosovo independent won't quell national hatred. A lot of Serbs will start disliking Albanians even more, and Albanians will continue to hate the Serbs cause, let's face it, that's just the way it is.
Even I don't know how all that started. Hatred is worse than plague. Knowing that, in a province of your own country, there are thousands of people who would kill you and your family just because of your nationality, and seeing some of your own people sounding the same towards them, can get rather depressing.
And when some superpowers from the other side of the globe, who bombed you until yesterday (they're probably not even quite sure why, but never mind), and who are completely clueless as to what's going on but are pretty certain you're the bad guy, start dictating some senseless stuff and playing with your country like it was a paper doll, while calling themselves so democratic and liberal, it's really REALLY hard to try to remain neutral and a pacifist.
Deep breath.
I need my pink pills again.
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