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| Thread: Ambiance music |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted May 11, 2008 04:14 PM |
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Ambiance music
Getting a bit sick of hearing how the latest hit of this or that artist sounds so ubercool with this or that faction, I decided to make this thread for those that actually have at least a basic understanding of the fact that ambiance music should be non-vocal 99,999% of the time.
Anyway, the basic idea is that people should post / link here what they believe is a suitable soundtrack for a specific town, situations, area, mood, etc. Sharing suitable ambiance music never hurts 
Don't post black metal or heavy metal or whatever of that crap here - it's not background music. Period.
Starting off, here's a package of themes I find suitable for HoMM - or any other virtual world with simular themes for that matter: Themes
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted May 11, 2008 04:45 PM |
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted May 11, 2008 05:49 PM |
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Moonlith's themes
Academy - Sounds suitable to Academy; mysterious enough and reminds the H3 Academy. Wouldn't suit desert Academy, though.
Haven - Assuming that we are supposed to ignore the talking, it's such of a thrilling ancient music which is more suitable for a battle. When you enter the town to build something, you really don't want the theme to sound like you're under attack.
Inferno and Necropolis - Sounds simply too modern.
Monk Temple - Sholdn't it be something more calm? Like the haven, it sounds more like a battlefield theme.
The Sylvan theme that you put would be suitable on this category. It's just too sad to be for Sylvan, which needs either Faeries-Dance music or a peaceful nature theme.
I would put snow as swamp theme, and the swamp would be put the wastelands theme. The wasteland theme that you put sounds like a sort of oriental music.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted May 11, 2008 06:49 PM |
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AHA! An actual critic!
For Academy, I agree, although it does suit the sky-floating Academy town as well I feel. The theme feels airy and light, and in that sense, suitable in my opinion.
As for Haven, it depends. I agree it's not exactly peacefull and calm, but it does sound heavily majestic, especially the second half. And somehow, the words "A rising power" appear in front of my eyes when I listen to it In that sence, it does fit the town theme. Try and picture circling the H5 town with that music in the background.
Inferno and Necropolis - That is indeed my only concern with those two themes, the fact they sound a bit too modern
For Dungeon (monk temple), I disagree with you here. It sounds brooding, dark, with a hint of secrecy, and not thrilling enough to be a battle theme. The rumbling may be fast paced, but that doesn't really change the overal dark and eerie atmosphere of this one. Also, the deep and heavy trumpets add a feeling of rising power to it as well Like with the Haven one.
Sylvan: Agreed it might sound a bit too sad, but it also sounds very mysterious and peacefull, which is very suitable for Sylvan. A bit too cheery might not fit in my opinion, although that depends on how you wish to portray Sylvan
What I can't understand though is how you can put the snow theme as a SWAMP it sounds distinctively chilly, and the tamborine really adds the image of falling snow. How does this one sound murky, damp swamp like to you?
The swamp one might work as a wasteland, but I still feel it fits better as a swamp theme... It feels hostile and forlorn, and sounds too murky to work properly for a wasteland one.
Wasteland one isn't the best suitable, but I choose that one for the distinctivly forlorn feeling that it gives, the feeling that nothing is left there.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted May 11, 2008 07:23 PM |
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AHA! An actual critic!
LOL, I'll take this as a compliment.
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As for Haven, it depends. I agree it's not exactly peacefull and calm, but it does sound heavily majestic, especially the second half. And somehow, the words "A rising power" appear in front of my eyes when I listen to it In that sence, it does fit the town theme. Try and picture circling the H5 town with that music in the background.
I don't like the opera theme either, but this is just too much like you're under attack all the time.
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For Dungeon (monk temple), I disagree with you here. It sounds brooding, dark, with a hint of secrecy, and not thrilling enough to be a battle theme. The rumbling may be fast paced, but that doesn't really change the overal dark and eerie atmosphere of this one. Also, the deep and heavy trumpets add a feeling of rising power to it as well Like with the Haven one.
Oh, it's for Dungeon! The "monk temple" title confused me. I imagined a Tibetan monk temple at the top of a high snow mountain. It fits, then.
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What I can't understand though is how you can put the snow theme as a SWAMP it sounds distinctively chilly, and the tamborine really adds the image of falling snow. How does this one sound murky, damp swamp like to you?
Take me to a swamp and I'll tell you what to put for a swamp theme. I live in Israel, all the swamps were dried 100 years ago!
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The swamp one might work as a wasteland, but I still feel it fits better as a swamp theme... It feels hostile and forlorn, and sounds too murky to work properly for a wasteland one.
Wasteland is supposed to feel a bit threatening, in my opinion.
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yann
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 12, 2008 03:01 AM |
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Edited by yann at 03:05, 12 May 2008.
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I have been waiting anxiously for this topic to show itself!
Thank you Moontlith for addressing the issue of music, which should, by the way, be taken just as seriously as every other aspect of the game. If the music of Heroes VI isn't taken in such a light, then I am afraid the quality of the game will plummet regardless of other content.
I realize that many people are suggesting multiple genres as the background music for Heroes VI. Just so we're clear - rock, heavy metal, rap, techno, etc. DOES NOT WORK in a game such as Heroes. If this were part of the Mortal Combat series or something then maybe but it's not so don't suggest your favorite rock, rap, etc. songs to be placed as background music. If you really insist on having your favorite music playing in the background, then just have it playing on another window on your computer and turn off the music in the game. If you do this, assuming the music is well writen, you will be missing a large aspect of the Heroes experience.
That being said, classical music (yes that can include operatic singing and the like) should be the only genre played in the background of such a wonderful game that Heroes is. Classical music is able to portray so many emotions and settings that it doesn't make sense to place any other genre in the game. If you're wondering why I am so biased towards classical music, it's that I'm a classical musician myself. I truly believe that the music of Heroes III (all classical w/ mostly full orchestra), even though it's often overlooked, helped the game's greatness as much as any other component of the game. Am I right or am I right.
In looking at the success of Heroes III I do believe that that game's music should be the foundation of the next Heroes game. With today's technology and recording capabilities, some amazing arangements and performances of Heroes III music can be made. The recycling of those themes will, first of all, provide excellent background music for Heroes VI, and, second of all, give Heroes some traditional direction (which it deperatly lacks).
By traditional direction I mean that there should be pieces of music that can be played that everyone can recognize as "the HOMM music". A Heroes theme can be played and that can be passed down thorughout the HOMM series as the "main theme" of Heroes. This will make this next game and HOMM itself more eternal.
Main theme: arrangement of HOMM III main theme
Haven/Castle: Heroes III Castle theme with a more arrogant feel. There should be trumpets blaring, a rich cello or viola solo, and perhaps some Gregorian style chant to bring out the "light" aspect of the Haven.
Sylvan/Rampart: A totaly changed up arrangement of the Heroes III Rampart theme. There should be lush strings, harps, mandolins, etc. thorughout most of the background. A tender violin solo would be an excellent addition (or a violin/cello duet). Another possibility is a Celtic fiddle-like solo in the middle of it all to give the music some upbeat energy. An operatic soprano solo might fit but it has to be subtle.
Academy/Tower: If the middle eastern theme is continued then the music must be more Arabic sounding. The idea of a floating city amidst the clouds is well expressed by the Heroes V Academy theme. However, there is something lacking when it comes to bringing out the culture of the place.
Inferno: Heroes III theme was almost perfect. Heavy low strings and lower brass. Some dissonace might help the music's cause. A rough textured violin or cello solo would be great here along with some deep baritone and bass vocals.
Necropolis: HEROES III Nec. THEME all the way! That song is so so cool and so so appropriate. The cello solo in there is so awesome! Jarring dissonace and creepy sounding music is the name of the game. Special effects play a huge role in the Necropolis theme. Throw in a dissonant violin solo too.
Dungeon: Heroes III Dun. theme- I liked the Heroes III dungeon more than the H. V dungeon myself. Anyway, like the inferno theme, heavy low strings and low brass. Viola/cello solo would be nice.
Bastion/Stronghold: Heroes III theme was cool but not appropriate for the Heroes V style Bastion. An arrangement of the current H.V bastion theme would be ok. Heavy bass drums and percussion of the like.
Fortress: Deep sounding vocals would be an excellent asset. A cello solo would be great (as it was for almost everything else). The music should give the impression of an impregnable Fortress which is the intention.
Once the summer starts I might attempt to write some of these arrangements myself. In the meantime give me some feedback and ideas Heroes could use in its music.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 12, 2008 08:00 AM |
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I listen to ambience music a lot of the time, and I feel I need to address the posts that have been made so far. Starting with Moonlith's post:
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for those that actually have at least a basic understanding of the fact that ambiance music should be non-vocal 99,999% of the time.
Actually you're wrong there. Many good Ambience songs have got vocals in them, but the effects that are incorporated within the vocals make it sound like it fits in with it. I myself have created such music, and some Vocals with some particular effects can make the song much more interesting to listen to. Trust me 
Now onto Yann's post:
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That being said, classical music (yes that can include operatic singing and the like) should be the only genre played in the background of such a wonderful game that Heroes is.
Classical music does fit in well with the Heroes of Might and Magic genre. However, with the modern audience, they might be a bit used to something different, more Electronic sounding. Electronic music can also be played like classical, it just uses Electronic instruments. It will also allow for much more freedom of the sounds that you can pick, because there are basically an infinite amount of sounds that could be made via Electronic means.
Ever seen films that use Electronic music? Sometimes they work very well. The Star Wars theme may have been done with some Electronic instruments, or at least incorporated them. Here is an interesting piece of trivia: Did you know the R2D2 sounds were actually made with an Arp2600 Synthesizer? It is one of the most famous and one of the best synthesizers ever made. But back to the topic
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Classical music is able to portray so many emotions and settings that it doesn't make sense to place any other genre in the game.
Electronic music can do that as well. I guess you are not too familiar with Electronic music right? If you were, you would realize that both Classical and Electronic are similar to each other in certain ways. The band leader from Tangerine Dream (I am a TD_Addict ) who was Edgar Froese, was often noted to do solos from classical pieces of music, like Bach or Beethoven. You should try listening to some Electronic music. You might realize how it would also fit into the HOMM series, and quite well I might add.
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If you're wondering why I am so biased towards classical music, it's that I'm a classical musician myself.
Well I'm an Electronic musician, so I can see where you are coming from. But you really have to give other genres a chance. In all honesty, the only other Music Genre that I could see that would work well in a Heroes of Might and Magic Game would be Electronic music. Nothing like Techno or Dance or Trance or any of that. If you ever listen to any of Tangerine Dream's earlier albums (again referring to the band) like Phaedra, Zeit, Alpha Centuri, Atem, Rubycon, then you may realize that they might work. I must add though, that those albums songs are nearly all near the 20 minute range in length (some are an exception), but they are very ambient sounding and that is why a lot of people like those albums.
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I truly believe that the music of Heroes III (all classical w/ mostly full orchestra), even though it's often overlooked, helped the game's greatness as much as any other component of the game. Am I right or am I right.
You are right, in a way. But if people were introduced to HOMM in a different music genre like instrumental rock for example, then people would say the same thing you just said.
Classical music is great for the HOMM games, but it needs something a bit more modern. I know I might be annoying going on about Electronic music, but I seriously think that it would work very well in the game, especially the longer pieces of music.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 12, 2008 02:18 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 14:19, 12 May 2008.
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Getting a bit sick of hearing how the latest hit of this or that artist sounds so ubercool with this or that faction, I decided to make this thread for those that actually have at least a basic understanding of the fact that ambiance music should be non-vocal 99,999% of the time.
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That being said, classical music (yes that can include operatic singing and the like) should be the only genre played in the background of such a wonderful game that Heroes is.
It's not called classical, it's called orchestral. I think the movie&game soundtracks genre (you know very well what I'm talking about) is the only one desirable in something like this. Classical music is different, just because it uses the same instruments doesn't mean a thing. There are particular pieces that I like in classical music but I often do not like them because they're too long & repetitive & boring (other "modern" music are also highly repetitive as well ).
Let me say this first, that I am a movie & games soundtrack maniac. ALL of my music is only from that. I don't listen to 'common' music as most people are referred. And once you get the 'scent' of it, you can feel why it fits so well.
@william:
Orchestral music can include many instruments, even electronic, but it depends how 'electronish' they sound. By that I mean if they sound 'machineish' or not (e.g: saw waves, square waves, or other simple 'oscillators' are pretty much out of the question, without good filtering that is). You have to understand that the 'feel' of most electronic music is out of the question -- it's not that synthesizers can't be used. There are a lot of synthesizers that try to 'match' a violin sound, for example. They are not exactly the same as a violin, but sound 'warm' in harmonics, and IMO are good enough for an orchestral theme.
I don't know what electronic music you're referring to, but most electronic music I heard is not suitable. Electronic music does not mean music made with synthesizers, necessarily. Synthesizers are used in orchestras as well, but it depends what kind of sound you expect from them. Usually you'll need complex synthesizers with either powerful filters (formant filters for example), or additive synthesizers 'resynthesizing' orchestral-type harmonics.
I know this because recently I started to make some software music (I don't have any hardware synthesizer, but only software ones), and a lot of Pads fit well, even if they do not resemble any particular orchestral instrument. However, there are other types (e.g: sweeps) of sounds that do not fit at all with such orchestral types. Just because you use a synthesizer does not mean that it's electronic music. The 'harmonics' of the sound make that genre-decision. And IMO those harmonics that do not fit with orchestral themes are not appropiate.
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Well I'm an Electronic musician, so I can see where you are coming from. But you really have to give other genres a chance. In all honesty, the only other Music Genre that I could see that would work well in a Heroes of Might and Magic Game would be Electronic music. Nothing like Techno or Dance or Trance or any of that. If you ever listen to any of Tangerine Dream's earlier albums (again referring to the band) like Phaedra, Zeit, Alpha Centuri, Atem, Rubycon, then you may realize that they might work. I must add though, that those albums songs are nearly all near the 20 minute range in length (some are an exception), but they are very ambient sounding and that is why a lot of people like those albums.
You see that's the problem. They are too long. Games & Movies don't need that type of music because you're not just listening to the music while dreaming, or working. You're actually either watching some movie (which is only 2 hours usually) or interactively using the game. This means music should be appropiate and usually short, along 2-3 minutes (let's say tops 5).
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Classical music is great for the HOMM games, but it needs something a bit more modern. I know I might be annoying going on about Electronic music, but I seriously think that it would work very well in the game, especially the longer pieces of music.
Again, no it won't. Like I said, classical music doesn't work either. It's "orchestral" music that works(ed).
As far as showing my 'taste' for each town theme, I'll have to think up because I have a lot of soundtracks and so many to choose from. 
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Zanmato
Hired Hero
Shaolin Zombie
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posted May 12, 2008 04:48 PM |
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Edited by Zanmato at 18:16, 12 May 2008.
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Here is some music that will suits Heroes 6 i my opinion
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71heHLDXmKo&feature=related]Undead terrain\Dirt[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7_AS3R13BI&feature=related]Inferno[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=522G2X1rB6w]Battle[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27J1RV9jH48]Inferno wasteland[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDMICnWMJDE]Necropolis[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_U4hOd1Tlw]Underground[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9vWvXoZhgI&feature=related]Haven[/url]
I continue my search for suitible soundtracks. Somthing who represents the life. We all love Good vs evil if I'm not mistaken
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Zanmato
Hired Hero
Shaolin Zombie
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posted May 12, 2008 04:50 PM |
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[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g61PcfPNIxA]For either Academy or Haven[/url]
Indeed
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted May 13, 2008 09:43 AM |
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Edited by Moonlith at 09:45, 13 May 2008.
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I got a little confused from Yann and William's posts since I started to think the type of music I was aiming at was to be defined as either classical or electronic, untill theDeath pointed out it's neither
It is primairily game, anime, and movie soundtracks that I aim at, but never really thought they were a genre of their own I just called it Ambiance music.
Here's some more themes: Themes
And some amazing soundtracks unfortunately not fit for HoMM:
All Hallows Sunset
Shared Dig
Surfacing
Labrat
@ Zanmato: Excellent choices! Although the Inferno one seems a bit too calm and the Dirt one a bit too eerie perhaps?
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 13, 2008 09:46 AM |
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Ambiance music is a part or a sub genre of Electronic music though.
The_Death, could you honestly tell me how many Electronic songs you have heard before? A synthesizer is an Electronic instrument, like a piano but it makes synthesized sounds, synthesis and all that. How can that not be Electronic? Sure, Synthesizers have Choir sounds in it, but they all have Electronic elements to them, so they are Synthesizers. All Synthesizers are in regards to Electronic music because that is what they were made for. I have never seen them in Classical music however.
I have heard many songs that would be most suitable for games that are Electronic music.
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yann
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 14, 2008 12:50 AM |
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I apologize for my misuse of terminology as I was trying to use a broad term that encompassed both orchestral and operatic/vocal elements. The term classical music is often use to describe the works of "classic" composers such as Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, etc. Or, if you wish to be extemely technical, classical can refer to the specific "classical" movement in music between the Baroque and Romantic periods (composers such as Mozart, Haydn, and Schubert are examples of composers during that time). In any case, the term we use to describe the musical genre is not the point. Let's all agree on orchestral music I guess.
I would also like to say that I am not opposed to the use of keyboards or synthesizers in the making of electronic orchestral music. I usually interpret electronic music as techno (which is still not appropriate for this game) but I see that this is not the case.
Anyway, since I may start writing some arrangements of music for the game (you all can too if you wish), I was hoping people could submit ideas on the structure of the music. By structure I mean what kind of elements do you all wish to have in the specific themes played for each town: solos, style, motifs, etc.
If there are any musicians out there who wish to do this, I propose a composition/arrangement contest .
Just a thought.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted May 14, 2008 08:27 AM |
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Edited by Moonlith at 08:28, 14 May 2008.
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My problem is that I am (yet) unfamiliar with actually composing music, as well not too familiar with instruments and the kind of moods they could create. I like to think I do well at judging what kind of moods fit a certain scene, though. And as such, I can only give vague tips (in posts above) and judge pieces once made
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 14, 2008 12:21 PM |
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Ambiance music is a part or a sub genre of Electronic music though.
But that music has the same 'style' as classical music, which means: too long and not suitable ambiance for games.
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The_Death, could you honestly tell me how many Electronic songs you have heard before?
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A synthesizer is an Electronic instrument, like a piano but it makes synthesized sounds, synthesis and all that.
Thus, it's an instrument.
Music styles are not necessarily defined by the instruments they use. You can use electric guitars even for orchestras (film music) without turning it into heavy metal, duh!
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How can that not be Electronic?
Yes it's "electronic", but that doesn't mean it's gonna be 'electronic' music (i mean the style).
Not all synthesizers work for this kind of job. For example, phase sweeps, brute saws or square waves, etc.. are not gonna fit into an orchestral ambiance. However, if you apply filters to these you're gonna have a more warm and "harmonic" sound -- which is what is desirable in an orchestral theme. I use synthesizers all the time, never recorded an instrument myself, and they can sound "orchestral". The difference is how it sounds. Like I said, sweeps or other 'fancy' sounds do not fit (or low-frequency FM for that matter). In subtractive synthesizers you'll need a lot of filters if you are gonna use saw or square waves (or other 'abrupt' waves, so to speak). Additive synthesizers are my favorite.
Note that I use only software synthesizers (i.e VST plugins). There is also a synthesizer called the "Garritan Personal Orchestra" (or something like that). Which is "orchestral" at it's best. Rob Papen's BLUE is also good, or additive synthesizers like Image Line Morphine and VirSyn Cube (there are also free image-to-sound software that are very good & better than the aforementioned above, but are not real-time, and you'll need to wait while they generate the sound; this however also means higher precision).
Like I said, just because the instruments are 'synthesizers' does not mean they will not fit in an orchestral theme. It depends on what sounds they generate. If it's an abrupt shape or sweep phase or with other fancy effects, it won't fit. Synthesizers are very useful, I use them myself all the time, but it depends on how you make them sound. You can pretty much make them sound like a real piano or violin. This doesn't mean it's gonna be 'electronic' music, I hope you get what I mean. When you add special effects or modulations, it's gonna be called 'electronic', and won't fit.
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All Synthesizers are in regards to Electronic music because that is what they were made for. I have never seen them in Classical music however.
Of course, in Classical music, you haven't, and probably never will. But I said orchestral. I think there was an application (CSound) that explained this (again: I think, don't remember), but it's a bit too technical.
Meanwhile, I'll try to find some music themes from the film & game soundtracks, they won't represent the exact music, but the "idea" and "genre" of how it should sound, IMO.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 14, 2008 12:59 PM |
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Note that I use only software synthesizers (i.e VST plugins). There is also a synthesizer called the "Garritan Personal Orchestra" (or something like that). Which is "orchestral" at it's best. Rob Papen's BLUE is also good, or additive synthesizers like Image Line Morphine and VirSyn Cube (there are also free image-to-sound software that are very good & better than the aforementioned above, but are not real-time, and you'll need to wait while they generate the sound; this however also means higher precision).
I have never really tried or heard of Garritan Personal Orchestra before. I have got Rob Papens BLUE though, and it is really good, used it a lot actually. I have heard of Morphine and VirSyn Cube and they sound great. Space is an issue at the moment though.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 14, 2008 01:18 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 13:25, 14 May 2008.
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Here are the themes (on rapidshare): Click.
Take them as a 'genre', not as a '100% exact theme' thing
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Space is an issue at the moment though.
Space on the hard disk? (because they are software synthesizers)
Cube is a bit big, like 150MB.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 14, 2008 02:12 PM |
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Yes, space on the hard disk. Have you ever tried a demo of Arturia's software synthesizers such as Moog Modular V or Arp2600 V? They are big, I think over 500 MB's. I might be mistaken though.
I should open a topic about software synthesizers, don't you think?
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 14, 2008 02:16 PM |
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Yes, space on the hard disk. Have you ever tried a demo of Arturia's software synthesizers such as Moog Modular V or Arp2600 V?
Garritan Personal Orchestra has 2GB, but that's because it uses a combination of samples & synthesis (samples are huge, not the synthesizer).
A synthesizer that big (500 MB) without samples is obviously too big 
(never tried them, I'll take a look thanks)
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I should open a topic about software synthesizers, don't you think?
Seems fine (but I doubt most people on this forum will be interested)
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yann
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 15, 2008 12:13 AM |
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Edited by yann at 00:16, 15 May 2008.
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There is also a synthesizer called the "Garritan Personal Orchestra" (or something like that). Which is "orchestral" at it's best.
I personaly am using this software to help me develop my arrangements and I highly recommend it.
I guess we can scrap the composition contest idea, but I may post my ideas as an mp3 file. Then you guys can criticize the heck out of whatever I create.
The_Death, are you involved professionaly in music or is just a hobby for you? Just wondering.
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