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| Thread: Total War battles while having the classic HOMM3 strategy game? | |
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Aron
Known Hero
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posted July 19, 2008 01:14 AM |
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Edited by Aron at 01:15, 19 Jul 2008.
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Poll Question:
Total War battles while having the classic HOMM3 strategy game?
So here's what hit me...
I personaly don't think there's much more room to work in when it comes to battles for HOI6.
Honestly to me HOMM3 was perfection, HOMM4 seems to be really bad and HOMM5 seems to be the best you can do with squares.
So why not take this to a completely new level.
Imagine this: The classic Heroes of Might and Magic gameplay of gathering resource areas, running around in an 2D or 3D map, capturing gates, towns etc.
But, battles...immense big battles in the style of Total War (Rome, Shogun, take your pick). For example... let's say you're meeting an enemy on a flat dirtroad on grassland.
Engaging in a battle will automaticly render you a 3D Grass battlefield with a big road in the center of it (Think of it as a random map generator- with these new computers that goes very fast and the settings are already defined by the ground you stand on)
So now to my two options :
Now you could either have this turnbased or real-time based.
*Army=Unit(For example 200 pikemen or 15 dragons).
*Stance= Offensive stance: Units deal 1.5x damage and move 1.5x faster but they recive 2x damage.
Neutral stance: Units deal 1x damage, move 1x and recive 1x damage.
Defensive stance: Units deal 0.5x damage, move 0.5x and recive 0.5x damage. Stances are used depending on what you want.
If you want to outflank a weak army group (like archers) then you probably want to kill them as fast as possible before reinforcements come even if you take a lil more damage.
If you want to hold down an enemy, defensive is the best.
Neutral is optimal fighting for any unit.
The following is the TURNBASED option:
Turnbased would basicly work in the way that for each turn you can move one of your armies the designated length that its speed is. You can attack with the army and you can put it in a stance or put spells on it or what ever ellse.
If you are in range of an enemy you can either select your army to fire on it (if it's ranged) or engage combat with it. When engaging combat the two armies would engage it and loose certain amounts of hit points/units each turn depending on their stats and the mathematical algorithms in the game. You can retreat from a battle when it's your turn. Retreating from a battle would have some disadvantages...not yet thought through.
The following is the REAL-TIME option:
Real-Time would work simliar to turnbased.
The speed of each army is decided by its speed stat. This is how fast the army would move in real time. You can put the army in a stance when ever you want except for in battle where you can't change the stance. You can cast spells when ever you want but each spells has a energy cost and a recharge time.
Engaging an enemy army would be just like in any other massive strategy game in real time. You either fire on them with projectiles, shoot magic on them or you go in hand to hand.
Retreating from combat would automaticly put your stance into offensive.
Pursuing a retreating army would automaticly put your stance in offensive.
Some units might have special attacks that would not need them to engage pursuit or retreat such as cavalary rush (going straight through the enemy, slashing through) or something cool like this.
Armies (that is different units) can mix in realtime. So you can send in dragons to help those pikemen if they are getting owned.
Different units/armies should have weaknesses and strengths vs other units.
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Everything ellse remains like in normal heroes(stats are Attack, Defense, speed, damage etc - heroes may or may not be used in combat depending on what the devs want etc). Oh and most importantly:
OBS!! EVEN IN THE REAL TIME CONCEPT THE GAME WILL BE TURNBASED. THESE ARE JUST THE BATTLES!!! OBS!!
I know this is alot to ask, I know that it might either be totaly stupid or maybe so good that I should get payed for it and I know it's hard to implement.
But I ask you (the developers) to consider it at least, if you read these forums. Thanks.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted July 19, 2008 01:18 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 01:20, 19 Jul 2008.
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I've had this idea too, the small battlegrounds in the heroes series doesn't really catch the feeling to me 
What I'd like to see is that the stack actually grow bigger when you add more creatures
So turn-based on really big battlegrounds, preferably with cover bonuses and stuff 
Everything else can stay the same, town building, exploring with your hero... etc...
(But somehow I get the feeling that this has been discussed before...)
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Aron
Known Hero
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posted July 19, 2008 01:25 AM |
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Edited by Aron at 01:46, 19 Jul 2008.
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Oh I just wanted to give you a picture of how I envision the battles to look like. IMO the concept that is of "Warhammers dark omen" would fit quite well at for both concepts.
Those who know the game also know how well the retreat/pursue thing works. Video 1
Video 2- begin watching at 4.00 - Some better fighting scenes.
Rome Total War 2 - As recommended a few posts below.
Quote:
(But somehow I get the feeling that this has been discussed before...)
Even if it has, I think that the work I put in into this post should mean it's allowed to live! xD
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted July 19, 2008 01:34 AM |
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What I think would be good would be that if you have about 30 Peasants, then it could be like Rome: Total War in that you get to see all 30 Peasants. But I think this should only really apply to those kinds of units. Having 100 Dragons plus many other units would be a bit much in my opinion.
I find myself to be quite good at R: TW and have played it for a while now and I do think it would be quite interesting to see some elements from the battles in that game taking part in a game such as HOMM. It certainly would be a new experience.
I'm going to vote for Real Time experience because I feel that it would engage the player into more tactical decisions such as unit placements, unit movements, and who exactly you make them attack.
This should ONLY] apply to the battles though which is what this topic is about anyway. 
A second idea could be that there could be something similar to how the units are moved around and selected similarly to Rome: Total War. You wouldn't be able to select individual units, but instead you select the whole stack which is what I think your idea is pretty much like, right? But I don't think this would work too well on units such as Dragons or Hydras or whatever units there are.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted July 19, 2008 01:37 AM |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 19, 2008 01:38 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 01:44, 19 Jul 2008.
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Absolutely against the idea, it's too big a change to the basic elements of the game to be done. You might as well disband towns and allow us to build dwellings anywhere, or drop us down to 4 resources. Choice 4 with choice 5 coming a close second (if only for decency's sake).
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted July 19, 2008 01:40 AM |
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I haven't actually got around to playing that game yet, however it does look pretty cool. The problem with me is that even though I really like these kinds of games, I really do prefer more ancient times such as Roman times or Greek. I don't mind Medieval games but that game you linked to seems to include things which aren't really to my liking.
I do enjoy playing Rome: Total War Barbarian Invasion Expansion Pack though, because it incorporates the Fall of Rome, Constantinople, the Gauls, Huns, Vandals etc. That's slightly more to my liking than that newer one.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted July 19, 2008 01:43 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 11:08, 19 Jul 2008.
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Quote:
What I think would be good would be that if you have about 30 Peasants, then it could be like Rome: Total War in that you get to see all 30 Peasants. But I think this should only really apply to those kinds of units. Having 100 Dragons plus many other units would be a bit much in my opinion.
I disagree William,having 200 peasants running around in beautifully "realistic" enviroments would be cool, but if there was a suddenly a dragon with the number 20 on it...? Nah, that would ruin the feeling
Of course, you would have to change the enviroment depending on how many units the armies have...
2000 Hydras would probably mean certain doom for any middle-weight computer so there might have to be some changes to the amount of units you can recruit per week too.
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Aron
Known Hero
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posted July 19, 2008 01:43 AM |
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Edited by Aron at 01:47, 19 Jul 2008.
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Quote:
What I think would be good would be that if you have about 30 Peasants, then it could be like Rome: Total War in that you get to see all 30 Peasants. But I think this should only really apply to those kinds of units. Having 100 Dragons plus many other units would be a bit much in my opinion.
I find myself to be quite good at R: TW and have played it for a while now and I do think it would be quite interesting to see some elements from the battles in that game taking part in a game such as HOMM. It certainly would be a new experience.
I'm going to vote for Real Time experience because I feel that it would engage the player into more tactical decisions such as unit placements, unit movements, and who exactly you make them attack.
This should ONLY] apply to the battles though which is what this topic is about anyway.
A second idea could be that there could be something similar to how the units are moved around and selected similarly to Rome: Total War. You wouldn't be able to select individual units, but instead you select the whole stack which is what I think your idea is pretty much like, right? But I don't think this would work too well on units such as Dragons or Hydras or whatever units there are.
Well fact is that you're not really supposed to have 200 hydras
But we could say that level 7 and 8 units would manouverable in themselves. SO even if you have 200 hydras you can move them one and one or just like all at once.
Sounds good?
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About the old timer complaining: Trust me, I'm like you! I loved HOMM3 and 2 the most.
But honestly the way things have been going it seems like the game is moving away from it's charm anyway.
I would never want to change the gameplay from the strategical point of view. I love running around and gathering resources.
I'd just like to change it to be even more interactive and fun when it comes to the battles. Either that or go back to the charm of HOMM3.
I even have this idea of some locations only allowing your hero to move in...like almost a lil RPG in the strategy game. Where you have to play in a First person or Third person way (either turnbased or real time, just like Fallout 3 is going to be). But that's a bit to big concept to even grasp for me ((for example the tavern when recruiting some hero out in the open)).
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted July 19, 2008 02:46 AM |
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Ok seruisly: This is heroes of migth and magic, defined by the 1 unit-look stacks and huge numbers and hero support. Niveal would be crasy enogh to do so, but it would really not be heroes. Maybe "commanders of migth and magic" or someting
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Aron
Known Hero
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posted July 25, 2008 03:15 AM |
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Seems a bunch of people seem to agree about the concept at least and someone said the thing has been up before so obviously people want big battles...or I'd say return to classic HOMM3 battles and just keep adding new graphics/content.
I can't say I know anyone who was thrilled with the HoMM4 concept at least.
So lets keep the thread alive and keep discussing it ^.^ Let's evolve the concept in every little detail so it is easy for the developers to apply later. I mean it seriously shouldn't be hard.
The 3D models will be the same, just bigger maps and alot more models with a few new options.
The only hard part is reconfiguring the AI but that's just that.
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