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| Thread: Lexxan's Creeping Expiriences. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 08, 2008 07:27 PM |
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Edited by samiekl at 19:34, 08 Aug 2008.
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click
Don't tell me that haven's ballista is better than this one.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 08, 2008 07:34 PM |
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Link doesn't work IMBAboy, sorry.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 08, 2008 07:35 PM |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 08, 2008 07:35 PM |
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Nice, a few things. When attacking a init 10 shooter never take your whole stack of stalkers, 4 single ones are better. Reason is that they may play before you do and you could lose, especially against master hunters. Also splitting often makes them split forces in 4 so an aoe will finish them easier.
Against warmongers you only need furies, 8 of them can kill and infinite amount of 4 speed units. Even if they get morale often.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted August 08, 2008 07:38 PM |
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Edited by Asheera at 19:41, 08 Aug 2008.
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Quote:
When attacking a init 10 shooter never take your whole stack of stalkers, 4 single ones are better. Reason is that they may play before you do and you could lose, especially against master hunters. Also splitting often makes them split forces in 4 so an aoe will finish them easier.
Yes, but sometimes I don't have enough mana and need the "finishing blow" of the Stalkers.
Quote:
Against warmongers you only need furies, 8 of them can kill and infinite amount of 4 speed units. Even if they get morale often.
Well, I used them to speed things up. I mean, even if they were a "danger", I would stay still with the Stalkers... I don't think that battle would last more than 3 turns.
Anyway, if there are powerful slow melee units that can't be finished easily, I use only Furies
EDIT: Btw, I got Deep Freeze from the Mage Vault (I didn't have enough resources to both upgrade Dragons and build Magic Guild Level 5 in week 5)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 08, 2008 07:43 PM |
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Lol samiekl nice. But one thing, if you are at that level why not focus your skills on your army that will deal sick damage with elemental chains? Was undoubtedly effective if a bit cheap with the ring 
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 08, 2008 07:46 PM |
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Here's a Fight I just did: Neribos versus Bears. Week was the Week of Might 'n' Magic, and Neribos had Expert Attack with Excruciating Strike and Battle Frenzy and Basic Dark Magic, along with Mark of the Damned. His spellbook contained Slow, Divine Strength and Eldritch arrow. Let me know what you think of it.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 08, 2008 07:50 PM |
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i had attack, destruction, warmachines, defense and enlightenment. it's really worth it to have army, spell and ballista to kill enemies. Sure, the ring was a nice bonus, but with that attack, it really didn't matter. but what the hell, it was there, why not have it? 
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted August 08, 2008 07:59 PM |
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@Lexxan: You lost 16 Imps!
You should have gated two Imp stacks at the up passage, you don't need more since Bear Riders are Large Creatures.
Clearly the gating was a big mistake, and you had to use your "real" imps to block them - and you lost them.
Then you should attack the Bear Riders with as many gated stacks as possible (maybe even split some troops to gate more) so that Mark of the Damned would be more efficient (since the target Retaliates)
But I'm no Expert in Inferno, those are just my 2 cents
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 08, 2008 08:09 PM |
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@ Asheera, I deliberately used them as fodder, they came from a dwelling. Unfortunately Neribos only had 1 Spellpower, so Slow would have worked long enough to replace the gaps with Gated Imps. I had to do this, as they probablt would have attacked by Vermin or Hellhound, if they weren't blocked. The loss of the Second Stack could be evaded, but still, I liked that battle 
And if I would have attacked them, I would have run out of Gated Stacks before the end of the battle, and that was a risk I didn't want to take.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 08, 2008 08:24 PM |
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@samiekl
I suppose from a tactical perspective it's better to hit will all those at the same time and it could divert a good hit that would weaken your army.. Thing is that in such battles I've often seen units with init arties destroying the ballista before it shoots in which case it is a waste of skills. I suppose you can't have it all.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 08, 2008 08:28 PM |
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well yes, i don't use ballista against academy or sylvan, but they are pretty effective vs other towns 'cause they can't take it out fast enough. Sure they may take it in 2nd round, but killing 10+ tier 7s and in the same time diverting the blow from my army is good enough for me And attacking with 3 weapons in the same time is really kinda scary for the enemy.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 09, 2008 02:38 AM |
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Just in case anyone is interested I made some necro replays from my latest RR game. Day 3 week 2 lvl 19, fast game
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Isabel
Known Hero
Dragonblessed
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posted August 09, 2008 04:41 AM |
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Edited by Isabel at 04:43, 09 Aug 2008.
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Quote:
i had attack, destruction, warmachines, defense and enlightenment. it's really worth it to have army, spell and ballista to kill enemies. Sure, the ring was a nice bonus, but with that attack, it really didn't matter. but what the hell, it was there, why not have it?
Might dungeon? It is wierd to see a warlock without socery. I still think having your hero cast 30% faster will be better than a ballista, unless you get bad spells, of course. The ballista doesn't have that much hp to stand a hit, usually it only get one chance to fire then it is down.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 09, 2008 03:13 PM |
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Eruina Versus Neribos
Very Close Battle, fought by the AI
I'll now add Neribos and Eruina to the Masterpost
Next will be Haggash and Telsek
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted August 09, 2008 07:14 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 19:21, 09 Aug 2008.
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For Haven you are using Doomforges guide as example, but you know... after the last HoF patch Lazslo isn't the same guy... average, better go for Vittorio or Dougal 
Quote:
Gilraen got Enlightement and Attack Soon, making him a powerfull
why not luck? Why Gilraen?
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 09, 2008 11:19 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Gilraen got Enlightement and Attack Soon, making him a powerfull
why not luck? Why Gilraen?
I'm creeping with Random Heroes. Gilraen popped up. And Luck wasn't offered to him, till the end. 
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted February 05, 2009 11:40 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 13:10, 06 Feb 2009.
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Update!
I've been deeping myself in the gentile art of creeping the past few days - so that asks for a BIG analysis.
I already apologise to Elvin for the LONG post - Though I know he was joking then 
CREEPING WITH HAVEN
Creeping with Haven varies from rather easy to hard; it mainly depends on your own ability to fight battles without losses. Creeping in the first week is somewhat hard overall, since peasants aren't exactly the best meat shields around. Especially shooters can be a pain, as both Peasants and Archers have low hitpoints and die easily. Shooters should be no problem in week 2, as both Footmen and Griffins make creeping so much easier.
Creeping Walkers is not much of a problem; simply split your peasants into 1 big stack and block the path of the enemy walkers with little stacks on one peasants. Since you usually have a big supply of Peasants, it shouldn't be much of a problem. Just make sure you have Archers asap. You simply cannot creep properly without them (but that's merely logical). I usually creep that way with Haven: I create mini-stacks of 1 Peasant and let them soak up retaliation or block your Archers from enemies like Bears and Familiars.
Haven's best creeping heroes are, imo:
- Irina: she starts with Luck (a very good creeping skill), and giffin that can battle dive (very good against shooters)
- Vittorio: He has War Machines, which is another good creeping skill. His Ballista is very strong, which is an enourmous asset against shooters (which is, imo, one of Haven's weaknesses early), and will become one of the best Siege Heroes in the Game. Probably the best Haven Hero.
- Dougal: He comes with a BIG supply of Archers, who are a lot stronger than the average Archer. He is able to creep most shooters and offencive casters in week 1.
Honourable mention: Ellaine. She is a very weak hero, but enables you to get as much as 100+ Peasants on day one! Not a good hero for creeping itself, but she is excellent as a supplier.
As for the units, you'll mostly creep with Peasants and Archers; and later with Footmen and Griffins. While the Peasants are weak and mainly serve as fodder, the other three are invaluable. I would upgrade the Griffins asap so they can Battledive (unless you play Irina, who doesn't need this). Upgrading Footmen is also a prudent choice. Using Squires or Vindicators depends on the stacks you wish to creep. Generally, Griffins are better for creeping than Footmen, so I suggest that you, in most cases, simply skip footmen and go for Griffins instead (in case you can't have both). Also, make sure you have a Mage Guild and a Blacksmith in your town (spells like Eldritch arrow and Slow can really help)
The Typical creeping Skills,(Luck, Leadership and War Machines) are quite easy to get for Haven, which is a great asset for the Faction. Overall, I would take Luck over the latter two, since it's simply stronger and more Usefull that Leadership of Luck. Taking War Machines isn't a nessecity at all, there are simply better skills to take.
CREEPING WITH INFERNO
From my experiences, Inferno is the most difficult faction to creep with; Useless units like Horned Demons, overall bad Creeping Heroes and units that simply tend to die. Creeping is hard, but not impossible.
One of the key elements in Inferno creeping is War Machines. In essence, creeping without a Tripple Flaming Ballista makes creeping shooters like Hunters or Crossbowmen a lot more difficult. Another cornerstone is MotD. Try to get Mark of the Damned as soon as possible, ditto for Hellfire, and try to aim for War Machines. Dark Magic and Luck won't hurt you (Mass Slow is a great asset), and Advanced Gating is almost essential (gating Cerberi and Succubi)
There are a few good tactics to creep with Inferno, but none of them are really easy to use or get.
The first of them is, as said before, Tripple Flaming Ballista. It's the easiest way to clear the map of any neutrals. Unfortunately it requires Expert attack and War Machine and with all the require perks and level-ups, a Hero who doesn't start with War Machines or Attack will need around 12 Level-ups to get it fully - and that will take quite a while.
a Second option is a little more difficult to get; stacks on 1 Succubus Mistress + Hellfire. Accordingly, the chance on Helfire triggering will increase greatly, eliminating a large number of Walkers and shooters alike. However, there are a few catches: It will take at least 9 days to get a Hall of Sins, if you can afford it, that is. And Hellfire requires a Hero with a moderately high level to get enough damage to kill enough units to win the battle easily. It's hard, very hard to get, and kinda weak on it's own, but works synergetically with Flaming Ballista, so I suggest yuo combine these strategies if possible
The Third option is the easiest and probably best option; Maximise the Gating skill, upgrade Imps and Horned Demons and Gate, Gate, Gate. Split them in a few stacks to maximise Gating. However a word of caution; the Neutrals ALWAYS attack the original stack in they are able to, so it's IMPERATIVe that you use the gated stacks to shiled the originals, while you finish the Neutrals with MotD or Ballista (and perhaps with Eldritch Arrow)
Of course, the best Demon Lord to creep with is Deleb; I once was able to creep 21 Ancient Treants with merely one imp and win. (Deleb as level 5 at that time). Hands down the best Demon Lord, that Ballista is crazy, and she even doesn't need Flaming Arrows to be Dangerous. Creeping with her is extremely easy.
Grok is the second viable creeping option; He is the only Hero I dare to combine with the Horrible Horned Overseers. I simply Teleport the Overseer next to the enemy and let them explode. Grok is one of the best Shooter creepers in the gate. He does require quite powerfull units to work properly, so you'd better get Cerberi and Familiars asap. Try to aim for Teleport Assault here, as it works synergetically with the cheap Teleport spell.
Overall, creeping with Inferno is hard, very hard, but with the right Heroes and tactics, it's very do-able.
CREEPING WITH NECRO
From my experiences, Necropolis is the second easiest Faction to creep with, second to Dungeon only. They gain units after battle, and are able to replenish their losses through the Eternal Servitude Perk.
In essence, creeping is one of the most effective ways to gain Spectres, Skellies and Vampires. Necro's main weakness is creeping is that these units are also quite fragile, and tend to die... often. Necromancy can only do so much, so it's essential that you try to minimise your losses... and at least use your near-to-useless Zombies not get hit instead of your Skellies.
Logically, it's essential that you upgrade your Skeletons asap; they are one of the key elements on Necro Creeping. A good creeping Strategy with Necro is splitting your Zombies and put them around a Large Stack of Skeleton archers. Flank the Archers with a Small stack (5-10) of Skeleton Warriors. With this group you can clear almost every enemy stack in week one.
Another way to creep, especially in week 2, is having quite a large stack of Skeleton Warriors/Vampires and six stacks of 1 Ghost. The AI doesn't like ghosts and will usually prefer to attack them instead. However, if the Ghost stack is too small, or the Skele/Vamp stack too large with will attack the latter stack instead. If you have access to simple, but strong magic, like Eldritch Arrow or Ice Bolt, you don't even have to bother with this stack. Just use 7 Ghosts, or even better, Poltergeists. This tactic is excellent when you deal with Powerfull stacks or Shooters
Creeping with Vampires is also a good strategy. They are fast, and can usually outrun most opponents, especially Large Creatures. It's best that you upgrade them to Vampire Lord (Not Princes) to gain Teleport, yet still have No Enemy Retaliation. A Haste or a Mass Slow wouldn't go astray. you can also combine Vamps with Ghosts, which is a very satisfying combo.
Necro's best Creeping Hero is Kaspar, hands down. His Tent is able to recuperate all your losses without a single raise dead spell. War Machines is on it's own a weak Skill for Necro, but as a creeping skill, it's pretty powerfull an works synergetically with the Skeletons low Hps. If you use Kaspar, I would recommmend the Archer-Zombie tactic I mentioned three paragraphs earlier or the Vampire Strategy in the above paragraph.
Only Heroes that come close to Kaspar in creeping are Naadir (who becomes invincible as soon as your first enemy stacks are killed) and Lucretia (A Vampire on day one is a big asset to have). Orson isn't too bad either, because Having a Horde of Useless and Crawling Zombies is a lot better than having only lots.They die as slow as they act, but hey, it's better having them than not having them, though there are other units that are a LOT more desirable.
As for Skills; Leadership and Luck aren't really an option here (though if you should get Luck, you wouldn't hesitate to take it), and War Machines is quite weak for Necro (they don't really need a Tent - and their attack is generally too low to have an effective Ballista). Instead, the key to Necro Creeping is Summoning. Gain and Maximise asap, it's spells are excellent to creep with. Expert Swarm can clear most living creatures without these even act. The Use of Expert Fire Trap or Crystal do not need much explanation. Sorcery is good as well, and Dark Magic (if you get Slow, Decay and/or Confusion) is a viable option too. In essence, the Skill every Necro should try to aim for: Summoning - Dark - Sorcery and maybe Luck (I do not mention Enlightement, since it's not a good Creeping Skill... but you must take it anyway to increase that low mana cap).
Overall the second best Creeping Faction.
CREEPING WITH DUNGEON
This one is easy. Easy to creep and easy to analyse. Dungeon already was one of the best creeping Factions, but now it even surpasses Necropolis in Creeping Potential
The reason is simple: Stalkers. These critters can allow you to creep and win Arcane Archers as soon as Day 3 (anticipating you have built the School of the Unseen Hand, the School of the Black Heart and the Mage guild in your town). Just make them invisible and let the charge - or better: finish off the enemy with Destructive Magic (Arrow, Ice Bolt)during the invisible periods
In essence, Dungeon Warlocks are able clear the map of any lvl 1-4 stacks in week 1. There are two strategies to do this:
The First one is Stalkers, as I mentionned before: Invisible and then either charge (in high numbers) or roast with Destructive (Arrow, Bolt) or Summoning (Crystal, Trap). This is the best way to clear the maps of annoying shooters, like Crossbowmen, Assassins or Arcane Archers. I would wait for Week 2 with Druids, Druid Elders or Archmages, but Wild Druids, Mages and Battle Mages should be possible to creep without losses. Tougher foes (Squires, Gargs, Warmongers) are better attacked with something faster: Blood furies.
The Second way to clear the map is to use the Blood Maiden Upgrades: Furies and Sisters; Furies are faster, but Sisters are tougher - it's your choice which to use them, I myself do not prefer either of them to the other (but I usually take the Sisters, because I like them more ). In essence, these Maidens can easily outrun any other creature due to it's size, speed and initiative. Combine with Luck, or better, Leadership to maximise their damage potential and NER. Do NOT engage shooters or casters with them - The Maidens low Defence and Numbers will make sure that they WILL fall like flies. You'd better use Stalkers for those.
Should you try to creep with Summoning, despite the fact that Destructive is tons better, I would even pick Assassins, who work well with Spells like Barrier, Crystal and Trap - But trust me, that's not the best way to creep.
As for the Best Hero, opinions differ - I know that Asheera favours Yrwanna with her Furies, I expect Elvin to be a Kythra lover (as well as Jhora ) and I simply anticipate half of HC to Prefer Sinitar to anyone else. And Indeed, all three of them are simply excellent at Creeping. In fact, every warlock is. The Best are, imo Yrwanna (Fury Creeper, starts with Enlightment, Intelligence and Ice Bolt, Kythra (Able to get Empathy, Troops act a lot more frequently), Vayshan (comes with 21 Scouts, Starts with Luck, Soldier's Luck and Trap), Sinitar (Start with Destructive, has Powerfull Empowered Spells) and Lethos (Free Decay at the start of Combat, able to get the Tripple-self damage combo of Decay-Corrupted Soil-Poison)
I myself favour Vayshan: the ~30 Scouts/Stalkers you get on Day one are a decisive factor in early battles, and make life so much easier - Luck... well, nuff said. Trap is simply excellent against Tough Walkers, which is the Stalker's Achilles heel imo.
As for the Skills, it's basically a no brainer: Destructive (Nuff said), Enlightement (Intelligence) and Logistics (Swift Mind). Luck also helps, or, if possible, Leadership to replace it. (If you are able to choose between Leadership and Luck, take the former, trust me on that one ) War Machines is not a viable option - Warlocks do not need Tent/Ballista to be strong creepers, and is simply a waste of Skill Slots (though the Warlock's Ballista is one of the Strongest in the game)
Overall, Dungeon is simply easy to creep with- You actually do not need to read the above paragraph if you want to do it - Unless you are a real NOOB
Next time I'll give you my creeping experiences with the Ultimate Might Faction H5 TotE: Stronghold
See ya till then...
(oh, and btw, I'll simply add them to this post )
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Nebdar
Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
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posted February 06, 2009 12:20 AM |
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Footmen in creeping never
I build this dweling last because of the Ore shortages. I tend to go Peasant, Archer, Griffin, Battle Griffin, Priest, Angel, Cavalier, Footman way.
With haven it seems the faster you get the higher tier units or upgrades Tier 2,4 the more chances you have for almost no loss battles.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted February 06, 2009 12:24 AM |
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Quote:
Footmen in creeping never
I build this dweling last because of the Ore shortages. I tend to go Peasant, Archer, Griffin, Battle Griffin, Priest, Angel, Cavalier, Footman way.
Well, Squires and Vindicators have their uses, and aren't weak in creeping.
But I usually skip them too, because of the Ore cost - I usually take Griffins if I'm able to.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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