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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted September 07, 2008 01:04 AM |
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Edited by william at 01:10, 07 Sep 2008.
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Hmm... then to prevent Imba items from the start you'd just have to make the "ingredients" harder to get...
Good idea. Perhaps you could also get some kind of 'quest' ingredients. With optional quests, perhaps some of them could give you some special ingredients or items that you are unable to pick up anywhere else?
Kind of like another kind of reward, so to speak. 
Also, perhaps there could be some 'quest only' ingredients which are necessary to complete certain quests?
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Perhaps there could also be a map building where you take a peice of artifact and it gets a rune or a crystal or sth and becomes more powerful?
Another good idea. Perhaps you could just combine a certain artifact piece with a rune or crystal as you say, you take it to the map building and then you may be given a random minor, major or relic artifact depending on whether the artifact piece and the rune or crystal was good or not.
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Basic Artificer - Hero is able to identify normal artifact materials
Advanced Artificer - Hero is able to identify unusual artifact materials
Expert Artificer - Hero is able to identify rare artifact materials
Good ideas, but do you mind if I expand on those a little bit?
Basic Artificer: Hero is able to identify normal artifact materials and is able to create minor artifacts.
Advanced Artificer: Hero is able to identify unusual artifact materials and is able to create major artifacts.
Expert Artificer: Hero is able to identify rare artifact materials and is able to create relic artifacts.
I was thinking that maybe certain created artifacts would only be able to be used when the hero has reached a certain level?
Level 5 enables the use of minor created artifacts.
Level 15 enables the use of major created artifacts.
Level 25 enables the use of relic created artifacts.
I put the levels high because created artifacts might be of better quality than just the normal minor, major and relic artifacts.
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Main parts (Or "core")
Example: Steel, Iron, SilkSteel, ShadowSteel...
You only have one of these materials when creating an artifact, they determine how effective your artifact's other effects will be.
Good ideas. Perhaps only some of them would be able to be used with certain artifacts, for example: Steel may only be used for sword type artifacts, wood might only be able to be used for Bows etc.
Perhaps it might also be possible if there could be some building in the Heroes town which enables you to convert the resources into these types? Ore could be used in the making of Steel and Iron for example. Wood could be transformed to be able to be used for bow type artifacts.
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Enchantments
Example: Can be anything really, an enchanted skull, jewels etc... these are the parts that add effects when creating an artifact.
Perhaps there could be special things that may only apply to the certain factions? Some plant type items could only be used for the Sylvan for example.
I was also thinking that there could be some artifacts only able to be used for certain factions.
I like your ideas for the Dwarves, by the way.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted September 07, 2008 01:06 AM |
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@Adrius: That system sounds pretty much pefect for Heroes. Remind me somehow Might and Magic.
Anyway, instead of making hero to lose the unidentified item, let him/her to keep it. It will be called "Unknown Item" meanwhile, and the hero will be able to give it to a more skilled hero, or to gain a suitable skill, so s/he can identify it.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted September 07, 2008 01:13 AM |
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Good idea, Genielord. Perhaps the hero might be able to pick it up but the item might give something bad to the hero until it is identified because they gain the artificer skill?
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted September 07, 2008 01:20 AM |
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Nah, that will make every hero to must have the skill, and we don't want to enforce a skill on all the heroes in the game.  So it's better to do nothing by the time it's identified.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted September 07, 2008 01:23 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 01:32, 07 Sep 2008.
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Hey, thanks for the Qp, promising...! 
Hmm... interesting ideas... maybe this?:
Basic Artificer: Hero is able to identify normal artifact materials and is able to create artifacts with 1 effect.
Advanced Artificer: Hero is able to identify unusual artifact materials and is able to create artifacts with 2 effects.
Expert Artificer: Hero is able to identify rare artifact materials and is able to create artifacts with 3 effects or more. (more effects than 3 is gained Divine materials.)
EDIT: Or maybe it's too much like Academy's racial?
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted September 07, 2008 01:35 AM |
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Sounds too much like the current Academy Artificer.
I'd go with William's suggestion of deviding them to minor, major and relic.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted September 07, 2008 01:39 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 01:46, 07 Sep 2008.
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But how do we divide them? How do we rate their power?
EDIT: I also think the level required for artifacts is unneccessary, to get the materials for an epic weapon you'll probably have a high level hero anyway. The rare materials shouldn't be found by pure luck.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted September 07, 2008 01:50 AM |
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Every artifact material is rated from 1 to 10 according to its power (+2 spell power, for example, is rated 5). Minor artifact is 10 points or less, major is from 11 to 24, and Relic is from 25. Sounds good?
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted September 07, 2008 01:51 AM |
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Sounds great, good system.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted September 07, 2008 01:56 AM |
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Well I was thinking. How about there could be a building similar to a crypt which would only give a reward of rare artifact materials, while other ones (unusual and normal) can be found over the map in treasure chests or just by killing random monsters?
I made this table just now (it's kinda bad but meh):
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted September 07, 2008 01:59 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 02:01, 07 Sep 2008.
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Nice table, but the consume thing seems a little weird... how do you "consume" materials?
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted September 07, 2008 02:01 AM |
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Well, I was thinking with magic of some kind. There could be some kind of spell that comes with the Artificer skill that will allow you to consume the artifacts. Perhaps some of those could be a once only thing, meaning that you can only consume one artifact once per level of artificer. So that means only three times.
Maybe instead of the spell power and knowledge increase, perhaps it can be something else.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted September 07, 2008 02:06 AM |
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How bout the consume thing is replaced by something that enables you to convert materials into resources?
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted September 07, 2008 02:09 AM |
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Edited by william at 02:12, 07 Sep 2008.
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Hmm, I dunno. I made an idea earlier that some resources could perhaps be made into materials, I guess it could be included in that but I was thinking that the consume thing could be something different. I was thinking that there could be a map building which would enable you to convert materials into resources or perhaps into minor artifacts regardless of whether the materials are of a high quality.
I guess if the Hero was to consume something, he/she could just use a spell and it could be similar to Imbue. Perhaps the spell could be called Imbue? Or perhaps when you level up and increase the skill, it could ask whether you have any materials that you would like to imbue into yourself. If the materials are of high quality, then you might get some better bonuses than if you were to imbue normal or unusual materials into yourself.
Maybe it could be possible to imbue the materials into creatures that in your army but only once per creature? It could permanently change the creatures stats such as Attack, Defense, HP etc. It could only affect one though since if a material were to affect multiple stats then it might be a bit overpowered.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted September 07, 2008 02:14 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 02:16, 07 Sep 2008.
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Maybe it's better without any extra ability at all, other skills such as Attack, Sorcery etc. only have one effect on your hero. (but this is H6, so who knows)
Maybe the consume thing could be a skill that needs Artificer instead? We've completely forgotten about those
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted September 07, 2008 02:20 AM |
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Hmm nice idea but perhaps it might be annoying having two skills? What if Consume appears when you don't have the Artificer skill? I know it would be possible to make sure that didn't happen, but if it did, what could be done? Perhaps if the hero gains the Consume skill without having Artificer first then it might not give anything until you have artificer?
Perhaps Consume could be an ability that the Hero gains when Artificer is learned? Some box could appear when viewing the Heroes artifacts, and you could choose whether or not to consume the materials that you may have in your backpack. I say backpack, because it wouldn't be right to just be able to use the materials in when they are not being used for what they were made for. It's like Diablo 2. You aren't able to use Runes in places such as the Helmet or with the sword, you are able to place them in items that allow them to be placed in.
Also, i don't think that materials can be used with certain objects. Boots or gloves shouldn't be able to have materials put inside them or be able to made into custom artifacts. What do you think?
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted September 07, 2008 02:25 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 02:29, 07 Sep 2008.
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Quote:
Perhaps Consume could be an ability that the Hero gains when Artificer is learned?
That's kinda what I meant.
Artificer -> Consume Material
Quote:
Also, i don't think that materials can be used with certain objects. Boots or gloves shouldn't be able to have materials put inside them or be able to made into custom artifacts. What do you think?
Hmm... I'm guessing that you think a pair of enchanted boots aren't as epic as an enchanted sword? Well, being able to create whatever you want is the main part of this Artificer skill imo, so I think boots/gloves/etc should be enchantable.
EDIT: I'm not sure if I made this clear or not... anyway.
This is how I think of the Core material: Once you have the Artificer window open, you first add the Core material, once you've done that, a second window pops up that asks what kind of shape you'd like the material to be in. That way you can choose what kind of item you'd like to forge, you don't have to find a core material named "Steel Boots" to forge a pair of enchanted boots.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted September 07, 2008 02:27 AM |
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Edited by william at 02:30, 07 Sep 2008.
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Alright good point. I guess boots and other things can be enchanted and made into custom artifacts. I guess it would be kinda hard to imagine Dwarves forging some boots or forging a hat.
EDIT: That's a good idea that you made with your edit in your post. What do you think about rings? Do you think they would be able to be enchanted or made into a custom artifact?
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted September 07, 2008 02:33 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 02:35, 07 Sep 2008.
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Ohh... rings... didn't think about that...
Umm... maybe they could need special core that can only be shaped into rings or amulets?
EDIT: Oh, and cloaks and pocket artifacts... let's leave them unforgeable...
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted September 07, 2008 02:35 AM |
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Edited by william at 02:36, 07 Sep 2008.
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Lol, yeah, I was thinking along the lines of that as well. What do you think of being able to perhaps give enchantments to creatures in order to be able to boost their stats such as HP, attack etc? Perhaps it could only be done once per creature or only 3 times per hero?
Agreed with your edit.
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