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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: who do you think would be last standing?
Thread: who do you think would be last standing? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
sorcerorkyle
sorcerorkyle


Hired Hero
Sauron
posted December 04, 2001 08:33 PM
Edited By: Hexa on 26 Jan 2002

who do you think would be last standing?

if there was an all out battle of each town all at once, with the chars as goes:
30   lvl 7
100  lvl 6
200  lvl 5
300  lvl 4
400  lvl 3
600  lvl 2
1000 lvl 1

Example if this is to difficult to understand

30   titans
100  naga queens
200  master genies
300  arch magi
400  iron golem
600  obsidian gargoyles
1000 master goblins

(names not be right i might add, but you get the jist of what im saying, anyways, what town would be last standing? i think we can take out the fortress right away cause they suck so frickin much compared to the rest!

i think the tower would win, or the castle? you?

Edit: revived!@
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Wesley
Wesley


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
posted December 04, 2001 08:38 PM

My guess

Necropolis Or dungeon or Foretress
Undead,Mythology and Swamp creatures are just to cool!

But I guess it is Castle.. because the good are always the best. and angels are just to powerfull..

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RMS
RMS


Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
posted December 04, 2001 08:51 PM

Moving Thread...
Probably could go into the taven as well, but I thought it more fitting here.
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Slava14
Slava14


Promising
Famous Hero
I am 16 now....
posted December 04, 2001 09:59 PM

It's a hard one. Tower has big chances. Dungeon too. Conflux.
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StormWarning
StormWarning


Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
posted December 04, 2001 10:35 PM

I'd say Fortress actually has a good chance - those 200 Mighty Gorgons might drop all 30 level 7s at once (10 through damage, 20 through the Stare of Doom). But depending on just how well-played each army is and just how lucky they are, any town other than Inferno could win (although with Conflux or Necropolis it's not particularly likely). I'd say the favorites are Fortress, Tower, Castle, and Dungeon (in no particular order).
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dragonsister
dragonsister

Hero of Order
MapHaven administrator
posted December 05, 2001 02:23 AM
Edited By: dragonsister on 4 Dec 2001

I rather suspect that H3trio's Battlemaps (www.h3trio.com)are an exercise along these lines.  I haven't played them, but I gather that in each one you start with a certain number of troops from a given town, and you have to fight three or four battles against a certain other town, of increasing difficulty.  I understand they don't take all that long, but often require a lot of reloading; and it seems people agree that certain towns are easier to win *with*, and certain others easier to win *against*.  Not that the maps are easy in any case!  Players say they learn a lot by playing them.

DragonSister
http://heroes.mycomport.com/

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Tristan
Tristan


Promising
Known Hero
illegally insane
posted December 05, 2001 04:21 AM

It would make a lot of difference if you took a hero into effect or not.  With a 0-attack, 0-defense hero no spell book on each side?

Hmm...   Still the issue of luck in most cases, I mean with everything going their way Fortress would be almost unbeatable, but without any deathstares, stoning, or poison I would move them to first one out.  It really is not a simple question as there are so many variables.

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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted December 05, 2001 08:51 AM

Battlemaps

The battlemaps are fairly hard, you get some hero usually with a random artifact, it depends alot on the skills said hero gets thru experience. The idea is you start with a certain town and fight thru 4 battles vs troops which are equal in #'s to your original amount of units. Yet, you don't get any replacements thru those battles. Before the final siege you get some spells and mana. The heroes you face also increase in strength roughly proportionate to your strength if you win.

Castle is pretty much the easiest to win with. Those Arches can resurrect alot of units. Fortress does well also due to the MG's and Chaos Hydra 0 retaliation.

It demonstrates really well the strnegth and usefulness of various skills and spells. Clone and Blind in the final battles can be very important, when you have hardly any units left. Also Armorer and Offense are mandatory. Also the first heroes you face have the artifacts which block luck or morale, I think it's only one of them blocked on each battle, but I haven't played one in awhile so I don't rememeber.

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wiggy_wam
wiggy_wam


Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
posted December 05, 2001 11:08 AM

Quote:

(i think we can take out the fortress right away cause they suck so frickin much compared to the rest!)



LOOOOOOOOOOOL!!

fortress could EASILY be the last standing, especially with mass haste or teleport.

- one on one, a chaos hydras would kill most lvl 7's ... and are MUCH more effective in these big battles.
- wyvern monarch's poison can devastate a troop over time
- 200 mighty gorgons will on average take down 20 extra lvl 7's
- the stoning of basilisks will help a TON
- dragon flies = very annoying and quite hard to kill
- lizard warriors = as good as orcs
- gnolls = 3rd best lvl 1 unit  (about = to sprites)


but given the numerical setup, I think necromancer has a good chance, w/ 300 vampire lords and 100 dreads.

so ... IMO here's my breakdown (with their power-troops ... according to #s u gave) :
1- fortress (200 mighty gorgons)
2- tower (100 naga queens)
3- dungeon (200 minotaur kings / 30 black dragons)
4- stronghold (200 thunderbirds)
5- castle (30 archangels / 100 champions)
6- necromancer (100 dread knights / 300 vamp lords)
7- conflux (100 magic elementals / 600 storm elementals)
8- rampart (100 war unicorns)
9- inferno (100 efreet sultans)


the ONLY troops that have a good chance against 200 mighty-moos are: 100 dread knights, 300 vampire lords

most upg. lvl 6's @ 100 ... are a bit better than upg. lvl7's @ 30.
same w/ lvl 5's @ 200.

for example: 30 titans vs 100 naga queens:
titans will have 2 shots before nagas reach them ... so after 2 shots, titans kill (40-60 * 30 * 1.45) = 2175 damage each shot, or 20 nagas each shot.  In hand to hand ... 60 naga queens left deal (30 * 60 * .87) = 1566 dam, killing 5 titans... 25 titans attack, doing 1800 dam, killing 16 more ... 44 NQ's retalliate and attack doing (30 * 44 * 2 * .87) = 2296 damage ... killing 7 more titans leaving 18 titans left ... titans attack dealing 1305 damage, leaving 32 NQ's left ... NQ's deal (in 2 shots) 1670 damage, leaving 12 titans ... titans deal 870 dam, leaving 24 NQ's left ... NQ's deal 1252 dam, leaving 8 titans left ... 8 titans do 580 dam, leaving 19 NQs ... NQs do 992 dam, leaving 5 titans ... 5 titans do 362 dam, leaving 16 NQ's ... 16 NQ's do 835 dam, leaving 2 titans left .....

wow, I guess it IS a close matchup there  

ok, perhaps I was almost wrong  
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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted December 05, 2001 02:06 PM

Castle all the way.  You guys put a lot of stock on the Fortress and 200 Gorgons.  I've got one word for them...Crusaders, with the Halberdiers to soak up the initial shot.  The Bulls are great but they won't get anywhere near the Angels (c'mon, 18 speed vs. 6?).  30 Hydras are okay, but with their stats (18 att 20 def 250 hp 25-45 dmg), they don't stack up.  As for the Champions hmmm...I like the sound of 100 Champions doing 145% damage on their first shot.  Fortress would get smoked.  What am I saying?  So would everyone else who comes up against the almighty and righteous Castle!

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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted December 05, 2001 02:33 PM

I think Inferno is underestimated here, as always.......

1. No retalition against Devils and Cerberi.
2. Fire Shield of Efreet Sultans.
3. Resurrecting ability of 200(!) Pit Lords.
4. Cerberi are like a small Chaos Hydras.
5. Fireball of Magogs (will do more damage than Marksmen when hitting two troop).
6. Best speed structure overall.

Conflux would be the loser here. Only 30 Phoenixes. Normally they get twice the number of 7th creatures compared to other towns. If there would be 60 Phoenixes Conflux would be almost certain winner.

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destro23
destro23


Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
posted December 05, 2001 03:05 PM

Fortress of course is winner here if magic and heroes are taken out of the mix.

However if we are talking about about heroes included and magic in.  I would  give  50% chancethat win to tower.  On a battle of that magnitude the arch magi decreasing the spell points used up is HUGE.  

And of course who really argues that castle might win this.  And who cares. we know that anyway. Problem with castles "might" is if on an equal playing feild you will never have the same "army strength" as opponent.  Because of course in optimal week 1 you will have angels. but certainly no cavaliers.. and probably no griffons. Not that this handicaps a castle at all. but it is laughable that a castle will have the same amount of cavaliers as say a fortress has wyverns. I doubt however that the 4 cavaliers and 14 griffons I am reffering to would have much or any effect on the outcome of these battles lol.

However alot is dependant on exp magics, skills, tactics of opponents.. and the other thing I was wondring is the very top posting here... is that 8wayffa all towns vs each other at once. or each time locked in 1o1 combat.

If this was an 8way ffa the power of the 300vamp lords would certainly win it in the end.


Could any of these armies take on 50 of each stack of those "SUPER DRAGONS" ????
(no hero stats or magic)

---------------------------
The Dead Walk!!!


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andiangelsla...
andiangelslayer


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
posted December 05, 2001 05:03 PM

fortress has NO chance against almost any castle without magic, hydras and cows too slow, monarchs too weak (poison means S***), the winner in such battles can only be castle and tower, since they have the best troops but hardest to pay in normal games.

for the 200 cows, when they finally reach a L7 how many will be left? 10 maybe, coz they are the only really dangerous troop. Hydras? just dont put your troops together.

as for inferno, yes they underestimated like always, devils and sultans kick ass in battles with no magic, pits and horned demons are ok, cerberi rock, maggogs are ok.

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StormWarning
StormWarning


Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
posted December 05, 2001 10:45 PM

Now you've got me all curious

As soon as I can (I probably won't finish tonight) I'm going to test each of these out in a duel with no spells or bonuses from heroes. I'll use auto-combat with the Shackles so it's a fight to the death, on Hard difficulty (the A.I. doesn't improve much, if any, beyond that), 5 tries so insane luck gets balanced out a little better.

As soon as I have results I'll report back.
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wiggy_wam
wiggy_wam


Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
posted December 06, 2001 12:55 AM

LOL

with auto combat, I definitely predict fortress will win.

first move, angels attack either lizards or gnolls, then cows move to the rescue.  

I think in the end, they're all balanced out that it'll depend on HOW they are played.

I'll test it out like storm warning ... post results ... should be fun  
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Icon


Adventuring Hero
Tower Loving Criminal
posted December 06, 2001 01:15 AM

Given:

- Both heroes have 0/0/0/0 stats
- No spells
- No luck
- No morale boost

Tower is the winner

Why:

-It has 2 shooters and 1 ubershooter Titans, which makes the opponent to come to my side of a screen.

-Whatever comes in the first turn:

Castle: Archangels
Conflux: Pheonixes
Dungeon: Blackies
Fortres: Dragon Flies
Inferno: Arch Devils & Sultans
Necro: Dragons

gets anihilated by Shooters and NQeens and then the others

Cows will never make it to the other side

The only problem I think will be with Inferno (Devils,Sultans,Cerberi) & Necro (Aging hurts )

It is just my opinion.

I will make a test map and post the results later. No auto combat!!!!

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Icon


Adventuring Hero
Tower Loving Criminal
posted December 06, 2001 01:22 AM

One more thing:

- Hero has a specialty that gives NO bonuses to the troops whatsoever (ex. Solmyr with CL)
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wiggy_wam
wiggy_wam


Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
posted December 06, 2001 02:44 AM

ok, here's some of my results:

all of this is done on desert terrain, auto combat, troops are positioned @ lvl 1 @ top ... to lvl 7 on bottom ... all done with heroes modified to   0  0  0  0 ... all heroes have none or useless bonuses ... secondary skills nulled.


15 matches held ... first done were the 8 matches of conflux and fortress:

match 1: fortress vs. stronghold: stronghold won
troops remaining:
9 AB's
82 cyclopse kings
205 ogre magi

match 2: fortress vs. necropolis: fortress won
troops remaining:
133 cows
249 lizards

match 3: fortress vs. rampart: fortress won
troops remaining:
461 lizards
122 cows
17 hydras

match 4: fortress vs. tower: tower won
troops remaining:
25 titans (ouch!)
21 nagas
98 genies
160 mages
341 golems
313 gargoyles
679 gremlins

match 5: fortress vs. inferno: fortress won
troops remaining:
14 hydras
193 cows
125 basilisks
471 lizards

match 6: fortress vs. castle: castle won
troops remaining:
200 zealots
14 griffins

match 7: fortress vs. dungeon: fortress won
troops remaining:
31 cows
76 basilisks

match 8: fortress vs. conflux: fortress won
troops remaining:
600 lizards
210 basilisks

fortress has 5 wins, 3 losses
losses to tower, castle, and stronghold


match 9: conflux vs. necropolis: necropolis won
troops remaining:
82 dread knights (ouch!)
57 liches
198 vampires
555 zombies
204 skells

match 10: conflux vs. tower: tower won
troops remaining:
28 titans (ouch!)
56 nagas
44 genies
242 mages
369 golems
133 gargoyles
752 gremlins

match 11: conflux vs. rampart: rampart won
troops remaining:
1 dragon
44 unicorns
140 dendroids
2 pegasi
400 elves
524 dwarves

match 12: conflux vs. stronghold: conflux won (interesting)
troops remaining:
123 storm elementals
267 ice elementals
142 magma elementals

match 13: conflux vs. inferno: inferno won
troops remaining:
127 pit lords
241 demons
288 cerebi
549 magogs

match 14: conflux vs. castle: castle won
troops remaining:
2 angels
63 champions
162 zealots
83 crusaders
242 griffins
465 marksmen
417 halbs

match 15: conflux vs. dungeon: dungeon won
troops remaining:
103 medusas
23 minotaurs
92 eyes

conflux won 1, lost 7
win was to stronghold

looks like Tower and castle are leading so far ... but fortress is better than average.
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andiangelsla...
andiangelslayer


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
posted December 06, 2001 02:55 AM

fortress is above average coz the comp favorizes troops with no retaliation, so the chaos hydra is a top unit for the comp, which in fact it is not if 2 humans fight coz its too slow (all for not using spells of course, i like fortress, but not in such a setup hehe), also the comp for example flies his black drags over to the fortress side where they get stomped, while the fortress units are slow and dont do that.

fact is against a good human fighter you will not win even 1 out of 20 fights with fortress against any other town

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Icon


Adventuring Hero
Tower Loving Criminal
posted December 06, 2001 02:58 AM

My results:

I played Tower vs. everyone but Conflux (I forgot about it when I was making a test map).

Tower vs. Castle - Castle is superior (no chances of winning)

Tower vs. Necropolis - I lost twice. In the first battle both Titans and NagaQ got aged , in the second only Titans but that was enough for Dreadknights with scythe .

But the chances are even, all depends on Ghost dragons. One more thing, those Vampire Lords were pain in the a$$.

Tower vs. the others - Win with ease.


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