Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: [Poll] Early game, Mid game or Late game....
Thread: [Poll] Early game, Mid game or Late game.... This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Nebdar
Nebdar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
posted October 03, 2008 11:55 PM

Poll Question:
[Poll] Early game, Mid game or Late game....

I have question about: what is more important when talking about the overall strenght/weakness of factions.
Is the faction strong because it rules, has advantage in the early, mid or late game
What time of the game is the most important
The best/strongest faction is this who rule in early game, mid game or maybe the key to victory is to have an faction that is strong in the late game so proving that this one is the best of all

Responses:
Early game(1-3 Week)
Mid game(4-6Week)
Late game(7- ....Week)
 View Results!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted October 04, 2008 12:00 AM

Depends on the map
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Nebdar
Nebdar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
posted October 04, 2008 12:07 AM
Edited by Nebdar at 00:10, 04 Oct 2008.

Quote:
Depends on the map

What about normal map Standard map, the map you are often playing

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted October 04, 2008 12:10 AM

I think it can turn out either way then, really depends on which factions are playing and the players' style.

But I'm a real noob at H5 so...
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
adon
adon


Known Hero
posted October 04, 2008 12:12 AM

As I understand it, on multi-player, the games never get too late game. Therefore early or mid game strength would seem to be the best choice.

And yes, the map would determine everything. Some maps people can't reach the other player until at least a 5 or 6 weeks in, which would mean early game strength isn't all that useful except as it pertains to early creeping.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Nebdar
Nebdar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
posted October 04, 2008 12:18 AM

Quote:
As I understand it, on multi-player, the games never get too late game. Therefore early or mid game strength would seem to be the best choice.

And yes, the map would determine everything. Some maps people can't reach the other player until at least a 5 or 6 weeks in, which would mean early game strength isn't all that useful except as it pertains to early creeping.

And if you would tested all factions on all types of maps, then what would crucial moment of the game for factions. Is it that even if you are not so good at the begining you know the most important moment is often the mid game, so it is less important early game

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 04, 2008 01:12 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 01:17, 04 Oct 2008.

It does completely depend on the map. I believe this game is at its peak of balance whenever you play on a normal sized map. Certain factions are too tilted on tiny or XL maps.

In a standard PVP fight, which will (or should) take place on a normal map (or a small map with a full underground), I think mid game is the most critical time to be strong. Although take it with a grain of salt because that is a very vague answer. There's so many factors that can be taken into account depending on the specific map, the specific factions, and the specific macro-strategies of each player, that it can't be pinned down very accurately.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Nebdar
Nebdar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
posted October 04, 2008 01:27 AM

So strong creeping or rushing is less important in the early game then in mid game

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted October 04, 2008 01:28 AM

Many variables.

One is the build, certain builds are more effective or more suited for early or lategame. Mess this up and it can break your game.
Another is the map but it's not just when it allows you to reach the opponent. Neutral strength may favour the factions with better creeping, little gold may make haven't training weaker, poor or rich in resources to affect upgrades or artificer, spell availability may cripple the magic factions, amount of artifacts may introduce imbalances with the sets you may be lucky to complete etc.

Maps where the battle may occur week 2-3 are imbalanced by nature so it's better to focus more on midgame. Reason is exactly that the opponent may not allow you to reach endgame, however early strength also translates in better creeping and faster breaking which is a reward in its own. Example, haven may be great on week 5 with army skills(light, attack, luck, leadership) but it can pay off to get warmachines, have a better creeping and have the battle on week 4. Should haven wait? Not on a map with very rich middle, that's for sure.

Basics that are repeated every so often:

Haven middle to late.
Inferno mid, not sure about late.
Necro early to middle.
Sylvan middle to late. Especially late.
Fortress middle to late. Leaning towards late as by middle they may not have had enough resources to build up or a fast creeping.
Academy from early to late. Late may be bad if map is poor.
Dungeon early to middle.
Orcs I'd say strong either way. Lategame depends a lot on initiative just as earlygame in getting warmachines quick.

These aren't fixed situations either, starting hero plays a great role. Vittorio for instance can be an insane rusher which is not a typical haven trait.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Nebdar
Nebdar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
posted October 04, 2008 01:58 AM

it seems more complicated then i thought.
I had an theory that 40% of the success chance for victory dependes on how you play in early game and 30% for mid and late game. This Theory is for proving with use of math which faction is the strongest of all.
So it seems that reality is probably like this 35%, 40%, 25%.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted October 04, 2008 02:09 AM

Hmm no. Actually it proves that your percentages are irrelevant You cannot incorporate all these parameters in a simple handy formula to get your figures nor can you simply throw some numbers and call it a day. You just play with the toys given to you at any given time and that's pretty much it.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Nebdar
Nebdar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
posted October 04, 2008 10:49 AM

And that was my first idea when i was thinking about it
I read too much about other pools discusions about the best faction in the game and there early game was to seem the most important in measuring the power of factions.
Good thing that i asked

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted October 04, 2008 03:34 PM

Don't believe what you see in polls, anyone can post in there
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted October 04, 2008 03:37 PM

The Mid and Early games are more important, the late games not that much, since most games don't go that far, unless you play a very big map.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
broadstrong
broadstrong


Promising
Known Hero
Level 20 Vassal of Light
posted October 04, 2008 05:17 PM

I voted for mid-game, though I am more inclined to say "mid-to late-game".

In my XL maps (with magnomagus' advanced AI mod and set to hard difficulty), my closest AI opponent would come in week 5 or so with their best possible army and try to get me, though I will then defend in my castle and comfortably win.  Once I passed through that and shortly defeated this AI, I know I would be on my path to victory, and with haven troops, it gets somewhat easier with their powerful troops, knights' might-based skills and abilities and light magic (even dark magic helps at times).

It is in the later phases that the momentum can continue in grabbing mines, artifacts, resources, enemy towns and defeating enemy heroes.


____________
The queer part of the Carcity/Broadstrong/Zamfir[
/b] threeway, equipped with sailing, summon allies, spatial travel and supermover.
Many current projects on hand.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Darksequence
Darksequence


Hired Hero
For great justice!
posted October 07, 2008 01:32 PM
Edited by Darksequence at 13:39, 07 Oct 2008.

I voted late game but that's because I mostly play large maps with a few friends of mine, I almost never play online.

Here's a list of the factions and what I think of them late game without counting ultimate abillities/Hero:

Academy: A really powerful late game, provided you have the resources which is almost always the case, the mini arties rule on big maps! When you reach knowl 30 its like all your creatures start combat with mass haste, rightious might and endurance on advanced.

Haven: don't play with them much but can be good late game, depending on your opponents faction and good use of the training skill. a friend of mine once had 130+ paladins and pwned us all.

Fortress: is really good late game the runes are a huge advantage in big hero 2 hero battles also the resource cost is of no consequence. Nothing else to say one of the best late game factions!


Necropolis: More of a mid-game faction imho, late game you probably have a bigger army then the other factions but its not much, the creatures u rise just don't have a big impact in the final battle unless you have the resources to convert all the troops from another castle to undead unhindered.

Sylvan: I hadn't expected it but sylvan has a quite alright late game if you get the right skills especially warmachines/imbue ballista. Otherwise a rather average late game faction.

Inferno: A weak late game faction even with the gating techs its just to weak to stand up against the more powerful factions. Maybe if you have the defence skill, but inferno has no stayintherness.

Dungeon: Dungeon really depends on what your opponents are playing, almost autoloss vs Fortress, (barbarian) and Academy, pretty good vs all other factions.

Barbarian: Pretty strong late game faction, bloodrage can be very good if you know what you're doing and absorbs a lot of damage, btw try to get  enlightenment! also Hordes anger is maybe a bit OP late game.

Imao Academy and fortress are the most powerful late game.
What do you guys think?
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
tizizi
tizizi

Tavern Dweller
posted October 07, 2008 06:50 PM

Early and middle game are, of course, more important. If my opponent is weaker at middle game, i'll use my advantage do finish the game as soon as possible. There's no "late" game coming.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
razor5
razor5


Famous Hero
Freezing...
posted October 09, 2008 01:15 PM

Quote:

Academy: A really powerful late game, provided you have the resources which is almost always the case, the mini arties rule on big maps! When you reach knowl 30 its like all your creatures start combat with mass haste, rightious might and endurance on advanced.


I agree

Quote:
Haven: don't play with them much but can be good late game, depending on your opponents faction and good use of the training skill. a friend of mine once had 130+ paladins and pwned us all.


THIS WILL BE ANTI HAVEN
Haven can be weaken from the start (I use this strategy )
then you will not fight with them in the late game
So to be SIRIOUS I will say the Haven faction can be destroyed (IMO) with some good spells (all Destructive Magic,and Dark Magic to heavy affect the morale and luck,and then weak them and destroy...)

Quote:
Fortress: is really good late game the runes are a huge advantage in big hero 2 hero battles also the resource cost is of no consequence. Nothing else to say one of the best late game factions!


I don't played much with or against them,so I won't comment

Quote:
Necropolis: More of a mid-game faction imho, late game you probably have a bigger army then the other factions but its not much, the creatures u rise just don't have a big impact in the final battle unless you have the resources to convert all the troops from another castle to undead unhindered.


Necro is also good in the late game,why not?
You there say the impact in the final battle will be bad if you don't use all of the resources to convert other towns into Necro town
I'll wait here for a better explain

Quote:
Inferno: A weak late game faction even with the gating techs its just to weak to stand up against the more powerful factions. Maybe if you have the defence skill, but inferno has no stayintherness.


Weak in the late game??!!
Sorry but I won't comment here,because when is Infernal strategy mine is very special,and I don't see others to have one like that
But if I say is special,this not mean is the best "Infernal" strategy

Quote:
Dungeon: Dungeon really depends on what your opponents are playing, almost autoloss vs Fortress, (barbarian) and Academy, pretty good vs all other factions


Probably is good your point here

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ronin
Ronin


Hired Hero
One cut, one life.
posted October 09, 2008 07:34 PM

I go for Mid Game

Hello everyone.

I've seen some posts where it's considered the map and the hero. However, I have to disagree.

The Early Game is very important because your Hero has to level up and the town has ti be developed mainly. It's the time you has to capture all the mines and try not to lose many soldiers. At this time, all the heroes are on the same business (except the rushers).

However, the Mid Game is the time for war. The Heroes are level 10 or more and the towns are almost full built or completely built. After 4 or 5 weeks of preparation, you have a main hero and all the main heroes start trying to gain territory. Some of those "main" heros are defeated. The heroes who result victorius gain more experience and territory, this is the start of the end.

As some heroes win their first battles against another heroes, the game gets unbalanced. That hero has more income, expeience and creatures to recuit, so he starts to plan his next target slowly or perhaps goes for rushing which ends in a snowball effect.

As I see it, it's mainly about to be or not to be the luckiest hero on the game, who levels up by fighting map creatures and faces the most powerful hero with almost no army.

Ronin
____________
The man who knows his fate, knows no fear.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Darkshadow
Darkshadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted October 09, 2008 07:49 PM

Quote:
Necro is also good in the late game,why not?
You there say the impact in the final battle will be bad if you don't use all of the resources to convert other towns into Necro town
I'll wait here for a better explain

They are strong in lategame too but not strong as in middle game.During lategame factions such as Haven and Academy will be threats with their late-power.

Quote:
Weak in the late game??!!
Sorry but I won't comment here,because when is Infernal strategy mine is very special,and I don't see others to have one like that
But if I say is special,this not mean is the best "Infernal" strategy


From experience I can tell they are weak at lategame (Unless you use Nymus swarmer tactic, but that will take a map filled with weak monsters, or alot of luck).
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.1138 seconds