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| Thread: UBI maps are good ! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted October 23, 2008 02:54 PM |
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Quote:
Stop using Mentoring...  Then there is nothing to abuse.
And I am suprised from you Elit... Hourglass is the KING of maps that people ABUSE.. and you love that map.. I bet if you played as many games on Genesis as you have on HourGlass you would also be as good at abusing the map as your opponents
I'm not talk for Hourglas here and map is alot better from genesis. For example Mentoring not kill balance because here have so many bildings for attack/def/spel/knolege and mentored hero cant visit all like main. So if you up mentored hero for main he will have less total stats and its balanced enough. Now if we look genesis all bildings for attack/def/spel/knolege is located 1-2 turns from main teleport. Its very easy to be get all from mentored hero and he will have same total stats like 1st hero. Its kill balance.
How i say alredy here have many ways for meet. When both kill his garisons mentored heros can go to oponent teritory for 3 turns from main teleport. Its realy big problem for balance.
I'm suggest you Jinxer to play vs Chn. He will be academy/haves vs your race. Rules no DV/HR. Its will be very good leasson for you.
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted October 23, 2008 02:58 PM |
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I like mentoring, it's fun to play this way too ... And again i don't see any problems with mentoring on UBI maps...
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 23, 2008 02:58 PM |
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And you obviously cannot read well.
If you read the quote then you will see that the claim is that EVERY map and EVERY game with it is wrong.
Quote:
Yeah, having 3 perks to pump out lvl 15-20 heroes for free is quite ok
I actually didn't know that all maps and games will produce main heroes with the experience necessary to pump out level 15-20 heroes. I didn't know either that all maps and games will actually allow to pump out heroes.
Nor did I know that in all of these games it's only allowed for one or not all sides or that.
Quote:
Jolly Joker you are funny and obviously new at this. mentoring is the most idiotic thing in thins game and whoever uses it is a real noob and unable to play correctly.
I actually know a couple of things that are even more idiotic than "the most idiotic thing" in this game, and one of those are people who claim to know what plays are noobish and what plays are correct and who is unable to play correctly.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted October 23, 2008 03:01 PM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 15:05, 23 Oct 2008.
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haha... there are only 4 towns that are not Light User town.
Necro
Inferno
Dungeon
Orcs
Orcs - Dont need any magic.. they can muscle thru the garrison with rage and lose almost nothing.. Just insane. So take them off list.
Necro doesnt need light obviously so that removes them from the list..
Inferno can get vampirsm... which is IMO way way better then Ressurection.. You cast it once and it lasts all battle.. no more mana required to keep rezing your crits. Remove them from list.
So that really leaves ONLY 1 town that might be at a disadvantage... DUNGEON... and I completely agree with you on this one. But again.. cant blame the map... MUST blame UBI.. the way they designed the towns... with some towns being mega strong in early game.. and other being mega strong in late game.. as opposed to all being equal strong all the time... leads to an impossibity of complete balance of all towns. The fact is... that 7 of 8 towns can compete.
I am open to any serious suggestions on how to make dungeon compete... that doesnt include letting them rush lol... on a side note... I have seen Fiur do some amazing things with dungeon by taking Expert Light magic with them... after all Light book is on map.. so guarenteed to have all light magic.. I think people are just unwilling to think out of the box! They all want the same old spoon fed stratagies.
@ Elit -- If you judge your maps on weather you can use Mentoring or not... then yes I agree Genesis isnt a good map to play. ANd I am ok with that. I dont want mentoring used. I think its silly to spend entire game busting your but to built your main hero then simply push a button and magically make all the rest of your heroes Mega heroes? That is just silly in so many ways.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted October 23, 2008 04:00 PM |
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Quote:
No! My point is.. you cannot blame the map for poor GAME creation.
Dude, how can you something as weird (to not use a harsher word) as this????? You make the map FOR A GAME. IT'S GENESIS FOR HEROES 5. Not genesis for starcraft. You make the map by the rules of heroes 5 not by some weird idea of your "perfectly balanced game" that exists somewhere in the dark corners of your mind. The map is balanced, the game is not....... pfffffff...
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted October 23, 2008 04:06 PM |
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some treads grows like fire in dry grass I need to say something to
first:
Jolly Joker you are funny and obviously new at this. mentoring is the most idiotic thing in thins game and whoever uses it is a real noob and unable to play correctly.
thats so wrong!!
if anyone know heroes (all versions) he is the guy...
(not sure if you do Jolly but I do remember you well back in the www.h3trio.com days)
and read all the stuff you made... simply amazing!
and about map balance issue...
for sure some maps got imba issues... but there is always a way around that issue in one way or another....
and it's a free world ..... play the map you like or don't play
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted October 23, 2008 04:20 PM |
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Quote:
So that really leaves ONLY 1 town that might be at a disadvantage... DUNGEON... and I completely agree with you on this one. But again.. cant blame the map... MUST blame UBI.. the way they designed the towns... with some towns being mega strong in early game.. and other being mega strong in late game.. as opposed to all being equal strong all the time... leads to an impossibity of complete balance of all towns. The fact is... that 7 of 8 towns can compete.
I am open to any serious suggestions on how to make dungeon compete... that doesnt include letting them rush lol... on a side note... I have seen Fiur do some amazing things with dungeon by taking Expert Light magic with them... after all Light book is on map.. so guarenteed to have all light magic.. I think people are just unwilling to think out of the box! They all want the same old spoon fed stratagies.
Dungeon suffers immensely in your maps. Why do you force me to take light magic because it's the only way the garrisons can be broken? Keep in mind that light is 2% for dungeon. Sure, Dungeon is extremely powerful on fast maps, but on a map that allows fight to take place in week 5 they are just normal. So, balance the map for them by giving them the chance to break the garrisons in week 4. For example, Battlezone for dungeon: need destruction to take 2nd town, also need enlightenment and sorcery. Light is needed to take out the garrisons and summoning because there's no level 7 building in 2nd town and they don't have the attack force or the defense. So they really need bird. This leaves out completely logistics and without logistics on that map you're doomed. And now please tell me how is this map balanced for them?
Please keep in mind that i don't have something against you, i just want to help you to make a balanced map and increase my playable maps folder . Of course, i can always skip maps that i don't consider balanced (like i did until now), but that's not my intention.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 23, 2008 04:23 PM |
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Hi Fiur! Nice to meet one of the best mapmakers again! I hope you are doing well.
When I posted here in this thread I did it with the TOH aim of having balanced maps in mind.
I've always hated this approach which is one of the reasons I never got active here, and I disagree with the basic settings for MP play as well, but that's nothing I would want anyone to convince of and it's not my point here.
I posted because I agree with OP: the maps made by Nival are COMPETITIVE to play since they know their limits. They can allow an imbalance here, a chest more there and so on, since it won't make or break the game, but most "regular" maps of them have a couple of things in common:
1) Experience to be gained is pretty limited.
2) Stuff placed on the map is limited as well.
3) Everything is difficult to get
4) There are no gifts, and you will have to use everything there is to advance. No tons of stat booster. No tons of creature dwellings. No tons of towns. Everything is toned down.
This takes the edge off of a couple of things.
Now, those maps tend to become bland, of course, and a nice and interesting map is always a pleasure to play.
But balancing those may well be a nightmare and basically impossible with the high balance requirements TOH players tend to have or are rumoured to have .
Note that I don't want to critisize TOH, the players or whatever; I'm just saying that the basic pattern of the Nival maps are allowing a pretty good approach to the TOH playing style because they cater more to the imbalances that come with the game. The keep to the "window" in which mostly balanced play is possible.
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Destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted October 23, 2008 04:36 PM |
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I think a few other things that are important to note here..
I don't particularly like the gigantic garrison battles myself, I don't like to know I need a way to ressurect my troops.
BUT.. and its a big But..
I greatly enjoy playing the game with sim turns intact until the late stages of play. These huge blockades are the only way for a mapmaker to ensure this happens.
I also don't believe that any particular town is imbalanced on Genesis, or really on too many maps out there. Naturally if you have a Ossir vs Alastor matchup well.. Ossir is gonna be able to clear the map faster.. I think this holds true to any map anywhere.
Its all the same as I have always said.. A matter of opinion, if you don't particularly like Jinxers newest map.. or Fiurs newest map.. or insatiables newest map.. don't play it. Its really that simple. People play and enjoy this game on many different levels. SOme enjoy the grandeur of that level 30 hero with stats in the 30s or 40s.. some enjoy the satisfaction of the 10th level hero with minimal stats overcoming insurmountable odds, some enjoy sending wave after wave of armageddon kamakazes into enemy territory, and still others (myself included) enjoy this game with any of the above situations providing I am having fun, and I know my opponent is having fun. If someone is not enjoying there gaming experience.. well then.. was it really worth playing?
in short.. play what you like, avoid what you don't and for the most part all should be satisfied.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted October 23, 2008 04:41 PM |
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Forgot to mention something... Dungeon's heroes... Yrwanna, Lethos and Yrbeth are good. The others are plain sucky since you force me to take a specific path with them. Eruina starts with attack and destruction and that's useless there since you need 2 magic schools. Sinitar is playable, Kythra (the best dungeon hero in my opinion), Vayshan and Sorgal have no chance. There's nothing i hate more about a map than the fact that it forces me to take a specific path. Where is the open-mindedness here?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 23, 2008 06:39 PM |
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I'm with samiekl here. Sure it may be the game's fault but if you go and create a map with those rules how do you make things better? Put the blame on ubi again? I've always thought that the role of the mapmaker was to correct such imbalances by giving ways to bypass or making things simpler for the factions that have trouble, not introduce features that make it harder for them JUST because the game is made that way. That's a rigid approach..
And good to see JJ active around here. Seems you have gotten comfortable in HC
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted October 23, 2008 08:06 PM |
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Well as Destro pointed out... the garrisons have to be made that strong in order to maintain Sim turns... does anyone know how to over come that??
And if I make it so Dungeon can rush week 4... then that makes Fortress and Haven and acadamy now Impossible to play on the map vs. Dungeon. SO make it better for 1 town and alienate 3 other towns?
I am always up for ideas and suggestions... just as long as it doesnt totally change the integrity of map...
Let the idea discussions flow...........
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted October 23, 2008 09:25 PM |
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First of all, modify the garrison in a way that dungeon can break it in week 5, not 4. Academy vs dungeon was never a very tough match for academy in any stage of the game. Dwarves in week 5 are very hard to be taken down by dungeon. Haven vs dungeon in week 5 is a very balanced match if haven can use its training. Look at Fiur's art of war evil garrison. Dungeon can break it with very few losses and sim turns don't end. Or insatiable's latest map, sidekick, which is my favorite map at the moment.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 24, 2008 09:14 AM |
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Quote:
And good to see JJ active around here. Seems you have gotten comfortable in HC
Yes, thanks, Elvin.
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Clay_Man
Known Hero
TOH gamer
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posted October 24, 2008 02:57 PM |
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Edited by Clay_Man at 14:57, 24 Oct 2008.
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Quote:
and still others (myself included) enjoy this game with any of the above situations providing I am having fun, and I know my opponent is having fun. If someone is not enjoying there gaming experience.. well then.. was it really worth playing?
Very wise words from Destro. Couldn't agree more.
Btw, not long after genesis came out, ppl mentioned that map is very poor for academy because of lack of resources (for week5 miniarts), so academy is weak there. Now academy is overpowered because of mentoring.
Anyways this is not the topic, just my last 2 cents.
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted October 26, 2008 04:38 PM |
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Elit is right.. a map that Nur dont have 90% win chances is bad balance 
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted October 27, 2008 08:35 PM |
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Quote:
Now academy is overpowered because of mentoring.
Well people should quit using Mentoring.. It is almost more retarded the Divine Vengeance! I used to only have 1 Rule only when playing.. NO DV... now I have ONLY 2 rules. No DV and NO Mentoring. All problems solved.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted October 27, 2008 08:49 PM |
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Completely agreed. Personally I find Mentoring even more broken than DV.
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted October 28, 2008 02:05 AM |
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well for me this discussion is moot since I'd prefer to play randomly generated blind maps in multi.
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted October 28, 2008 06:27 AM |
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Mentoring add so match flexibility to game play, he stimulate players creativity... Mentoring is part of Heroes 5, big part, nice part ... Mentoring is not game balance problem, is particular map problem.
To Vesuvius - if you one of us (random map player), please random map tournament
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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