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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Skill-Picking Guide
Thread: Skill-Picking Guide
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 02, 2008 04:09 PM
Edited by Elvin at 16:22, 02 Nov 2008.

Skill-Picking Guide

One of the most important strategic aspects of H5 is managing the skills effectively Ė prioritizing while you level up, planning their combinations, picking the right abilities according to the situations that you will face. The same armies under the same level hero can be a moderate threat or effective killing machines according to these choices.  As you are well aware each skill does not have the same value for each faction both because of how the faction plays out and because of their unique abilities so I will attempt to clear up a few things.
I often see people asking for builds and I know itís a hassle to look through dozens of pages in each faction guide so hopefully this will become a thread for future skill reference

[As a sidenote I have not covered the simple or less important ones, Iím pretty sure you know if you want evasion or not The magic selection is absent as it has already been covered here. I considered adding a section to mention which skills are important for which factions but that only kills creativity, the important thing is use the skills that suit you at any given time. Tactics may be more important for sylvan than to dungeon yet the latter will want them to steal sylvan's tactic advantage.]


ATTACK



A skill whose usefulness pales next to the effectiveness of its abilities, it is usually picked by offensive factions(díuh) for those. Almost all of its abilities have merit since they basically modify the armyís offensive potential and tactics.

Tactics is used for three reasons:
Crossing the battlefield in one turn, avoiding the enemy doing so or placing units better so that you can avoid surprises from firebreath or stormstrike.
Retribution is obviously a good choice paired with the above and damage or initiative boosters. If you add the bonus from attack you have a solid +40% to damage.
Flaming arrows I tend to pick for 2 reasons:
One I want to pass though a garrison early and have no other means to prevent losses. The other is that itís handy against enemy shooters that you cannot reach.
Power of speed I donít need to cover and excruciating strike is a mostly inferno ability.


DEFENSE



In contrast to attack the base skill is quite effective with situational abilities. It can be a lifesaver against factions like sylvan, orcs or haven but itís not an optimal pick most of the time. Abilities of interest:

Last Stand is useful in cases where you plan to resurrect your units before their corpses are covered or you need to survive as long as possible to keep casting. Or when you want to abuse armageddon tactics It is undeniably effective when used with rune of resurrection.
Preparation can be deadly under the right circumstances yet they rarely arise. For starters you must be certain that the opponent has no other way to harm you than physical attacks, destructive or dark could spoil the surprise.
Power of endurance as most free mass spells is a good pick.


ENLIGHTENMENT



An excellent pick for every single faction since its stats boost the primary skills of the faction - power and knowledge for academy, attack and defense for knight. Its abilities are mostly useful to magic factions however.

Arcane Intuition ensures that you will learn spells you may not get from neutrals. Slow, haste, confusion and fireball mm Also itís good to take a peek at your opponentís artifacts and skills when you engage in battle, can prevent nasty surprises.
Mentoring has many uses as Cleave has pointed out. Suffice to say that in maps that you can reach a high level(over 25) and have some Sylannaís ancients the mentored heroes can reach the mainís level. Can allow you to pick another hero class as main which causes imbalances. The other typical abuse is mentoring kamikaze heroes. Evil.


LEADERSHIP



An important skill though a potentially obsolete one according to the artifacts you will get. There are only a few abilities that I would consider worthwhile.

Aura of swiftness is a crucial one if you command an offensive army. That extra speed can mean everything as you can attack on the first turn or not, especially against factions that have command of dark/destructive magic. Unlike tactics it can allow you to reach but not be reached.
Divine guidance is especially useful for might factions. Acting with a high damage unit before your opponent does is of utmost importance plus you can depend on it long after your mana is gone.
Empathy is easily amongst the best skills, makes mass spell spamming so much easier. Helps both with spellcasting and faster activated abilities like the above in the knightís case. For sylvan it can act like swift mind because of its unitsí superior initiative.


LOGISTICS



Its usefulness depends on the map but itís a must more often than not. You lose a few skills that could have gone to might or magic skills but in return you gain levels faster and clear the important areas of the map faster Ė usually that means more artifacts, spells or army. Where abilities are concerned it has some interesting ones.

Swift mind is probably the most important, an early mass haste, meteor or frenzy can change the course of the battle, especially if the opponent is not expecting it. Can be a good way to prevent familiars from draining your mana, disabling powerful shooters, blocking pathways before you are charged, using divine guidance, casting magical immunity to prevent surprises. Many uses,
Warpath is the alternative, it acts like a logistics amplifier. In maps like hourglass or genesis that are full of neutrals its effectiveness is impressive.
Teleport assault is a good perk with a might preparation. Itís like an improved divine guidance that also teleports, whatís not to like? Itís a lovely counter to frenzy by teleporting your cursed units next to the opponent, setting mages to hit opponents in line, avoiding enemies ganging up on you and also works wonders with vampirism.
Silent stalker is hardly something Iíd call essential but it has many advantages. Its scouting radius is outrageously long so you can plan ahead better, also you can see neutralsí courage so you can predict the joiners. An important aspect is observing your enemy from afar but that depends on map layout. Thing is unless you have sylvan chances are youíll be content with just scouting that is its prerequisite.
Familiar ground is an excellent choice for sylvan and haven if you can manage to get the opponent to fight on grass.


LUCK



One of the top skills, you can never have enough luck Artifacts alone canít give you max luck so youíll rarely regret picking it. Abilities of some interest are resistance, soldierís luck and warlockís luck for reasons I donít need to cover.


SORCERY



An important skill to speed up your casting just as leadership speeds up units. Obviously this is meant for magic factions.

Distract. Or is it? A might faction can still profit from decreasing its opponentís casting speed. Unfortunately sorcery does not work with mass spells so unless you can spare the level ups itís not worth it. Itís just a good icing on the cake.
Counterspell is another way to inhibit spellcasting at the cost of double the spell mana. Can be a good necro or dungeon counter but if they have sorcery theyíll act before you counterspell twice, the ability itself is not affected by sorcery.
Arcane Excellence is one of my favourites, extra spellpower and +100 mana is sweet. Optimal pick for necro or dungeon that tend to have low mana reserves.


WARMACHINES



Mostly an earlygame skill but with flaming it can prove pretty powerful in later weeks as well. However by that time the ballista can be destroyed in 1-2 attacks so it becomes a matter of initiative randomness - that basically means that in week 5+ maps you are better off without them. The traditional and more effective way is triple ballista and tent, rest are rarely needed. Itís an easy way for might factions to catch up with magic factionsí creeping and a good counter to ranged units where youíd normally have casualties.
A ballista can be affected by cold death.


Edit: I suppose I will have to post something more specific later, seems a bit vague
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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted November 02, 2008 04:35 PM

Interesting thread

But no info about Intelligence? IMO it's a MUST for magic factions (maybe except Academy)

Also, what's the best strategy? To choose your skills as early as possible when they pop-up so that you'll have them guaranteed or not? After all, there is a disadvantage when choosing many skills when they pop up -> that their abilities will be a mess (usually)
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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted November 02, 2008 04:36 PM

The guide is quite nice for anybody who didn't read ur previous posts or is quite unexpierenced in game
Unfortunately I didn't learn anything. But newbies can a lot IMHO...
I think u deserve a QP (u can give urself one )- it is short and exact- perfect for somebody who don't know how to build a hero...
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 02, 2008 04:45 PM

Intelligence is pretty much to the point. You need mana you get it, you need to boost your archers you get archery and so on.

Best approach is to focus on 2 or at most 3 skills that aid you in creeping and then start looking for specifics. However if you get something important like shatter dark for orcs or light for haven I'd pick it on sight. The fastest beginning for a might faction is to get warmachines and logistics, then flaming.

Rather than post what is important for you it's better to write about what is suitable against your opponents. Which I will do later
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adon
adon


Known Hero
posted November 02, 2008 05:00 PM

Elvin, I always appreciate reading things like this from strong players like yourself and the nice debates that follow. One thing I was expecting when I opened this thread and maybe belongs here or maybe not was a guide to getting the skill choices you want. I know there are certain things you should do to ensure that the skill or perk you want comes up, but I don't think I ever quite mastered it. For instance, getting Attack with Academy or War Machines for Sylvan.


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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted November 02, 2008 05:09 PM

I just hate that Erratic Mana doesn't require Arcane Training anymore (for dungeon)

1) It's WEAKER - the average reduction is 12.5%; Arcane Training reduces by 20%

2) It's an advanced ability and blocks the bottom-right slot when you pick up Sorcery.
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radar
radar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
posted November 02, 2008 05:18 PM

Can Arcane Intuition teach you spells while being in battle?
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 02, 2008 05:23 PM
Edited by Elvin at 17:24, 02 Nov 2008.

There are tricks on controlling the perks that appear but nothing specific that can increase your chances to get 2% skills. For instance if a faction has an 8% skill that you wish you can wait for it and get it within few to several levels but that is not the case for the rare ones. When I say wait I of course mean level up your starting skill and racial, eventually the 8% skill will appear. My most unlucky time was when I did not get warmachines until lvl 14

A short synopsis on controlling the abilities that pop up for those that don't remember.

* Each level in your skill allows you to pick one ability - 1 for basic, 2 for advanced, 3 for expert.

* In each level up you get one new skill, one advanced, one basic ability, one advanced ability. By the latter I mean the ability that has a basic one as prerequisite like flaming arrows requires archery.

* The more skills you pick the harder it is to receive the ability you wish. If you have leadership and attack skills the available basic ability will be 1 out of 6 - recruitment, estates, diplomacy, archery, battle frenzy or tactics.

* By keeping a skill at basic and picking one of its abilities means that it is 'closed', you will not be offered any more abilities from it until you get it to advanced.




@Radar
You learn them only after the battle assuming you have the appropriate skills.
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Asheera
Asheera


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Elite Assassin
posted November 02, 2008 05:26 PM

Quote:
There are tricks on controlling the perks that appear but nothing specific that can increase your chances to get 2% skills.
Actually it is. If you get as many high-chance skills as possible (those with 15% for your faction), you will have increased chances for the others, since the one with high chance was just picked.

of course, it may not be always a good tactic to pick those skills, but it's a strategy to increase your 2% skill chances
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 02, 2008 05:29 PM

A poor one as it deprives you of options, besides it doesn't help getting them as early as you want unless you are lucky.
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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted November 02, 2008 05:35 PM

Yes but if you're desperate for War Machines with Sylvan, you should pick Logistics and Luck, which are not bad at all either. It will increase the chance to 3.33% (which is actually considerably more than 2%)
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radar
radar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
posted November 02, 2008 05:38 PM

But the proportion would still be the same, wouldn't it?
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Asheera
Asheera


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
posted November 02, 2008 05:41 PM

No, because now the Luck and Logistics skill have a chance to pop-up (and a big one). Without them, War Machines will have an increased chance to pop-up.

If you got ALL skills (theoretically) except War Machines, what are the chances for them to pop-up? 100%

It's basically like this: once you pick up those two, you have 100-15-15-10 (last one being the racial) = 60. War Machines will be a 2 from this 60, which is higher than 2 from 100.

It's 2 * 100 / 60 = 3.33%
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 02, 2008 08:45 PM

The guide makes a lot of assumptions with what people know, which wouldn't be very helpful for a beginning player.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 03, 2008 12:18 AM
Edited by Elvin at 19:35, 04 Nov 2008.

I have omitted some things because I did not find them very important, I assume that those who read it have a basic understanding of the game. These are simply a summary, I cannot offer everything on a silver plate. The second part will probably be more interesting.




Onwards with the second part! This time I will cover the recommended skills against each faction so that their variety may be understood better. There is no superior strategy, more than one builds can work under the right circumstances.


Vs Academy

For starters warmachines and dark are not a good option. The former because of the possibility they will use saboteurs and the latter because:
a) Golems, titans have certain immunities.
b) Their native school is light.
c) Magic mirror redirects not only curses but vampirism.
d) Mages can use cleansing.
e) Cotn can be greatly reduced with mini arties, heals magnetics, viziers have high resistance. not to mention ring of the unrepentant.

At least necro's curses cannot be redirected back to their army but each mirrored spell brings you a step back. Also even if you do pull off a mass slow in half a turn chances are it will be replaced by mass haste. The only good spell is mass confusion and a lucky puppet at rakshasas or phoenix.

Summoning for fog veil or elemental balance to counter their summons(especially phoenix) are almost a must.
Light can work pretty well with fire resistance as an armageddon counter, eternal light against mass dark and stormwind against djinns and phoenix.
Destructive may or not work as they can counter it easily. In dungeon's case it can still work with irresistible magic even though at reduced effectiveness.
As with any magic faction tactics, luck and leadership are crucial. Resistance, empathy and divine guidance work great here.


Vs Dungeon

Anything that can allow you do damage them fast
Light with mass haste/RM/divine strength, resurrection, teleportation and magical immunity is a natural choice. Not to mention fire resistance and stormwind for the blackies.

Dark can also be effective, a quick puppet on the raiders can decide the game. Also vampirism can work well as long as your stacks do not die instantly to an empowered spell.. Cotn with sorcery can work lovely if armies are not too large.

Summoning with phoenix, phantom forces, arcane crystal(if you have very good spellpower) and arcane armor is decent. Unfortunately you also need staying power to keep up with the barrage of destructive. And he may have elemental balance as a little surprise.

Destructive can work as long as you have high spellpower. Sap magic can help a tiny bit but I wouldn't exactly consider it important.

Sorcery for distract or counterspell is great to have though not all races can make good use of it. The latter will have a high price on your mana, double an empowered spell means four times the spell's mana. Plus it can be triggered by matriarchs as well as he can sneak in his actions some casts with expert sorcery.

Same as academy goes for the might skills. Swift mind can save your hide if you have a plan.


To be continued.


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