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| Thread: DnD's alignment system |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Doomforge
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posted November 25, 2008 06:48 PM |
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you haven't answered my question, mate 
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TheDeath
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posted November 25, 2008 06:53 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 18:56, 25 Nov 2008.
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Sorry I must have missed this you know I'm really broken now.
I think it doesn't matter if you laugh in her face or not. If you laugh, you laugh. I think you should be bold enough to make her know that "her walking is funny" to you and that you had a good laugh behind her back/in your home. It's not like she won't understand but I just don't understand why people are so cowards to do it privately. Let her know what kind of person you are.
So whether I know of such person or not doesn't matter since it doesn't really matter (FOR ME) if they laugh in her face or not. And most of the times they are too cowards to say this openly so I can't know. (and I don't really know many handicapped person in RL but maybe I can search teh internetz...)
funny isn't it? how someone like me who has never even had a big 'handicapped' experience in life (and thus it's much more "close" than just some pictures/video where it is easier to laugh) is the most compassionate around here.
Just a question: would you still laugh and say it in their face (or are you a coward) if it was your daughter?
(it doesn't really matter if it is about "family" because I can't comprehend how someone can make fun of good people like her; I would agree if they were bastards though)
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Doomforge
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posted November 25, 2008 06:57 PM |
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errr, that was not my question. I asked whether you know such people in real life.  I mean the bullies, ofc.
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TheDeath
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posted November 25, 2008 06:57 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 18:58, 25 Nov 2008.
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how would I know if they are bullies or not if they "hide" behind like cowards?
and no I don't know any in real life.
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executor
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posted November 25, 2008 06:58 PM |
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Then it is OK with you when I laugh a bit as she walks, tell her that it is funny to my taste, and lend her a hand and help her walk at the same time? Good, because it is fine with me as well  .
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TheDeath
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posted November 25, 2008 06:58 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 19:00, 25 Nov 2008.
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I don't know what you mean by "ok"?
Of course for me such a person is kinda cruel. Or "emo" since if you were in her situation and looked at yourself would you laugh?
it doesn't matter whether you tell her or not, that doesn't change you.
Ok just one more question: if you filmed yourself while diseased (and let's say you had a terrible experience), then magically got cured, and looked at the video, would you laugh at your "past experiences" and how you walked or rather will that MAKE YOU REMEMBER HOW CRUEL IT WAS TO GO THROUGH THAT?
seriously...
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executor
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posted November 25, 2008 07:03 PM |
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Edited by executor at 19:06, 25 Nov 2008.
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And what wrong or 'emo' is in laughing at your own deficiency, be it transitory or not? I had temporary deficiencies and I made a good laughter of myself with my parents and friends. The fact that it was about me didn't make it less funny. I just have distance to myself .
And I do not find word >cruel< an insult, maybe that's bad, maybe not. If truth is cruel, why not reveal it?
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TheDeath
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posted November 25, 2008 07:11 PM |
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I never said anything about insults. I think I said you should be brave enough to tell her so she knows how you really are. I for one, for example, can't tell her that because I would be lying if I told her "I find her walking funny". Seriously, I WOULD be lying. I can't even find it funny in my HEAD (how more private can you go? ).
I can't understand how some people can find it funny -- when I try to even look at such a remark it is completely dwarfed by the CONTEXT (that is her disease) and thus I am unable to think of it as 'funny' at all.
Especially because she was not a bad person.
But I think I mentioned that too much already
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JollyJoker
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posted November 25, 2008 07:13 PM |
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I agree with Asheera's post:
If something is looking funny, it's looking funny. Period.
TheDeath, laughing about something is not the same as laughing at someone. As has been said a couple of times by the braver comedians, a minority isn't accepted as long as you cannot make jokes about them. Which means, laughing about "the lighter side of the handicapped" is nothing to be ashamed of, on the contrary.
Handicapped don't want compassion - they want to be treated as normal persons, and most of those who get along in life are proud of what they accomplish.
Of course. laughing AT that weirdo with the strange gait or something is different!
I remember a friend of mine from school days. He was handicapped, a so-called Contergan-child. Left arm was stumped at the elbow. Handicapped? My bad. Probably the strongest guy of the whole school. Could do with his right arm and the stump basically everything others could as well. Looked funny, though, occasionally. We used to lie flat on the floor when he played pinball - I mean, don't get me wrong, he was a fantastic player, he OWNED the machines. But it looked hilarious when he worked the machine with his stump. AND HE DIDN'T MIND US LAUGHING. Because he know there was a hell of a lot RESPECT showing, even for 15-year-olds. He could do everything we could and had no problem whatsoever. Compassion would be the wrongest feeling ever to have for him.
One of his nicknames was Capitano, a consequence of the fact that he was Captain of the football team he played in (do I have to mention that he was an ace in sports?). Another one was The Paw, due to the fact that his right hand was just that.
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TheDeath
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posted November 25, 2008 07:22 PM |
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I didn't say anything about them WANTING compassion. I didn't even met her! Look I said that I cannot find it funny. Not in context.
What you proposed is not necessarily bad, he was just different. That isn't as bad as being pwned. I have no problem with differences.
It doesn't matter if she minds you laughing or not! I just can't when I see her because I remind AUTOMATICALLY, SUBCONSCIOUSLY of that situation. If I try to think of her walking it's impossible for me to not think of her situation and thus I cannot find it funny.
If you were in a war and you were to see your buddy's head being ripped apart (in a funny way) you would be terrified right? Then 30 years later when you are a grandpa, and look at a video of that, would you laugh or feel terrible about your friend? That "video" REMINDS YOU how terrified you were etc... so you should feel terrified. It is something SUBCONSCIOUS. In fact any non-cruel (compassionate) veteran who watches a WAR MOVIE which isn't REAL will not feel the same as a teenager who watches it -- he might even consider it brutal, terrifying, because it REMINDS HIM OF THAT. Just like in the walking situation, it reminds you of her situation.
Her walking might be funny. But that is unnoticeable if you think about her situation. That's what I've been trying to say all along. Or at least it's how it is to me.
I can't believe people @ the YouTube posted comments more compassionate than here and I never ever expected people at YouTube to be that way because I always see trolls and all that kind of idiots there. It makes me feel even worse 
Or take this example:
Ok, that's your daughter. You see her walking like that. You realize something is wrong, but are you telling me you burst into laughter? Or are you actually concerned about it?
The key word here is subconscious: Your subconscious tells you that something is wrong. THAT SHOULD OVERRIDE the "that's funny" remark.
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Asheera
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posted November 25, 2008 07:29 PM |
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Maybe you let your subconscious emotions take over you too much, Death. It's not good to be like this at all, you'll probably freak out like all those teenagers from Horror movies when one of their friends was slain instead of focusing how to get out with the remaining survivors or kill the attacker/monster. In short, in terrible situations you won't think rational.
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TheDeath
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posted November 25, 2008 07:33 PM |
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What EXACTLY is rational about laughing? 
I find it much more rational to feel sad BECAUSE you KNOW her situation. Ignoring that is ignoring rationality/knowledge.
Let me put this differently: If she ASKED me to LAUGH at her walking (that is she wanted it) I would laugh to make her comfortable. But I will FORCE myself because I would be lying.
If she asked me to leave because she doesn't want to be a burden anymore, I would feel terribly bad. Look why:
1) She cares about me
2) I don't care about her in return because I left her. (not that she feels bad but I do).
That is I WOULD feel terribly bad because of her -- in this scenario I would be a bastard COMPARED to her. That's gonna haunt me.
You know, would you do it if it was your daughter?
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Darkshadow
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posted November 25, 2008 07:33 PM |
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Quote:
you'll probably freak out like all those teenagers from Horror movies when one of their friends was slain instead of focusing how to get out with the remaining survivors or kill the attacker/monster. In short, in terrible situations you won't think rational.
Well, in nowdays horror films the monster usually has some kind of immortality + bunch of other superpowers, so rational thinking wouldn't help.
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Asheera
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posted November 25, 2008 07:35 PM |
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Quote:
What EXACTLY is rational about laughing?
Nothing. Of course you twisted my point but then again you always don't get it.
Because you feel bad even when something looks funny -> you are too sensitive (NOTE: being not sensitive doesn't mean you can't be 'good' and help others as best as you can)
And now, being too sensitive -> can't think rational in dire situations.
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TheDeath
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posted November 25, 2008 07:36 PM |
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Quote:
Because you feel bad even when something looks funny
Funny is a feeling too...
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Galev
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posted November 25, 2008 08:27 PM |
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Edited by Galev at 20:27, 25 Nov 2008.
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"Aw, men..."
(comic of HoMM5 lore)
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Doomforge
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posted November 25, 2008 08:34 PM |
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The world would be a better place if everybody had a distance to himself. Seriously.
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antipaladin
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posted November 25, 2008 10:38 PM |
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humor is subjective.. how can this be even discussed ?
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mvassilev
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posted November 25, 2008 10:49 PM |
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TheDeath:
I have seen videos of myself when I was younger. I was an idiot back then. I laughed at myself, though I would not enjoy it if others laughed at me at the time.
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TheDeath
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posted November 25, 2008 11:19 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 23:26, 25 Nov 2008.
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Well technically you laughed at yourself because you did something stupid -- now you know that and that you were silly. I'm talking about adult/serious problems
Ok as for the alignment system. It is my opinion that the system is well made, covering the "most prominent" attitude in a person of course. For example, you don't need to take all of your attitudes into consideration as they will require different alignments, but the one most prominent or the one which you feel has the greatest impact or is most common in your life.
I think the system covers all possible such scenarios well enough (with certain approximations). Maybe those that say it's too simplistic (yes it isn't very complex but it isn't simplistic either, somewhat average) maybe don't interpret it right?
Ok for me it follows a pretty standard pattern, with certain deviations of course (as you'll see if you read the entire alignment essays in the books) but I'll make a rough outline:
Good -> altruistic, caring about other beings. Peaceful and only fights back as defense
Neutral -> ignorant, somewhat selfish but tolerable and NOT oppressive. Doesn't care much about others, but cares if he influences them (usually does NOT want to do so)
Evil -> oppressor. Not only selfish but also likes to make others' life miserable or doesn't care at all if others suffer as a consequence of his actions
Lawful -> organized, follows a moral conduct that he regards as absolute (usually moral absolutists). has ranks for authority or whatever, but may also shift them in his favor (esp. evil). values his own morals, whatever they may be (usually has HONOR).
Neutral -> values his own morals but not to the point of authority and doesn't care much about the political authority or viewpoint. It's more like a "no combination" between Lawful or Chaotic -- that is, just the Good/Evil.
Chaotic -> individualistic. pursues freedom but depending on Good/Evil affects others in that way. He values freedom above morals and as such usually has relative morals.
Some example combinations:
Lawful Good -> respects authority and values absolute morals. It's called a "Crusader" because they do not care much about the 'evil' they consider and want to wipe them because they do not adhere to it. May not always respect others if they have different politics/authorities.
Neutral Good -> doesn't care about authority but has a set of morals it is based on. most have honor from the Lawful part, while pursuing freedom on the authority/crusader part -- that is they don't necessarily feel a hatred towards evil, and may even forgive them if they repent. It's the true "altruistic" alignment
Chaotic Good -> cares a lot about freedom, more than morals and laws but keeps those in his spot (he's good after all so he must have some morals). he doesn't like authority at all. because he is good, he HELPS OTHERS pursue their freedom (unlike Chaotic Neutral!!). That's usually the difference between them.
Chaotic Neutral () -> individualistic, doesn't really like authority at all, thinks that every man is for himself because he's neutral, doesn't bother to others but is not completely careless of his actions towards them (unlike Neutral Evil for example). he doesn't care to FIGHT or HELP for OTHERS' freedom but will FIGHT for HIS freedom. he is 'neutral' -- usually leaves others alone if they leave him alone.
(Ash pls don't start! it's just my view on it and it covers most of stuff )
Neutral Evil -> individualistic, has absolutely no remorse towards others (see the contrast to Neutral Good). Does what he wants when he wants, and doesn't care what happens to others in the process. doesn't usually have a strict set of morals to follow but may change them i.e unpredictable. Usually backstabbing rogues are this alignment.
Chaotic Evil -> wants to take away freedom from others, because he's evil, while pursuing maximum for himself. He is also known as a "psycho" because he has fun torturing others without NECESSARILY a diabolical goal -- but sometimes he just has such pure hatred towards life and and happiness and wants to destroy whatever they stand on, because if he takes others' freedom he takes their life as well, and all which is based on. they are usually considered the most "evil" by classical definition but not always the most dangerous.
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